Parasound HCA-2200II
Comments
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Wow, someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed today......
Let me try and use words with small syllables so I don't have to repeat myself. I mean, if you have to take a leak or something, go now.
Ready?
Ok, the question made no sense.....which should have been no great surprise to Cathy because you, in fact, make no sense. Still with me?
Moving on. Now as to your speakers and amp comparison. Who gives a ****? There isn't some frigging Speaker to Amp matrix that someone should consult. Nor should anyone use price as THE defining factor in a decision about gear.
So, like most of your drivel....there is no point in discussing or debating because the underlying premise makes ZERO sense.
Lemme know if I have to repeat any of that....I tried to keep it simple.
BDT
(one of the folks that you describe as needing to be flushed from the forum...I forget the phraseology of you PM...but I think that summarizes the sentiment)I plan for the future. - F1Nut -
Wow, someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed today......
Let me try and use words with small syllables so I don't have to repeat myself. I mean, if you have to take a leak or something, go now.
Ready?
Ok, the question made no sense.....which should have been no great surprise to Cathy because you, in fact, make no sense. Still with me?
Moving on. Now as to your speakers and amp comparison. Who gives a ****? There isn't some frigging Speaker to Amp matrix that someone should consult. Nor should anyone use price as THE defining factor in a decision about gear.
So, like most of your drivel....there is no point in discussing or debating because the underlying premise makes ZERO sense.
Lemme know if I have to repeat any of that....I tried to keep it simple.
BDT
(one of the folks that you describe as needing to be flushed from the forum...I forget the phraseology of you PM...but I think that summarizes the sentiment)
LOL... ". Nor should anyone use price as THE defining factor in a decision about gear." Price comes into play and very much at the top in most cases for most purchases. While it isn't the 'defining' factor among competitive products at a certain class of product, it sure determines that you aren't going to be moving up the food chain.
And for all your blabbering like an infant, you still can't answer a simple question. You need a new nick here: Dodger.
Cathy understood where I was coming from. There is no helping someone like you of limited mental capacities however.
So when I ask: Can you come up with any $500-$600 amp that when driving a pair of Monitor 70's will bridge the delta of a $200 (HCA1000a in this example) driving a pair of TSi 500's, You don't understand the question? Really?
:eek: -
I understand the question perfectly and the answer is it's a stupid question. Period.
Sorry, I thought I used small enough words....gotta work on that I guess.
As to the rest of it, feel free to take a poll around the forum....I'm pretty comfortable with where I stand so you may feel free to say what you like about me.
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut -
I understand the question perfectly and the answer is it's a stupid question. Period.
Sorry, I thought I used small enough words....gotta work on that I guess.
As to the rest of it, feel free to take a poll around the forum....I'm pretty comfortable with where I stand so you may feel free to say what you like about me.
BDT
Wow, it only took three exchanges to actually keep you on topic. Still couldn't answer a simple question. But I believe we all know what your answer is. Have a nice day sweet cakes:rolleyes: -
It's a apples to oranges analogy....
Why would ANYONE be concerned about making a pair of 'X' speakers with 'Y' amp sound better then 'A' speakers with 'B' amp? I mean, it's a dumb question. If you diagree fine...but it's still a dumb question...but par for your course.
Yeah, I had a great day....arranged for two American Heros to be shipped home in flag draped metal containers. Try wrapping your head around thier sacrfice for a couple of minutes. Any more assinine comments?
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut -
It's a apples to oranges analogy....
Why would ANYONE be concerned about making a pair of 'X' speakers with 'Y' amp sound better then 'A' speakers with 'B' amp? I mean, it's a dumb question. If you diagree fine...but it's still a dumb question...but par for your course.
BDT
So you DO miss my point. I really thought you were following the bouncing ball.
Since any semblance of nuance or reading between the lines is lost on you, and to borrow your turn of phrase: Let me try and use words with small syllables so I don't have to repeat myself.
There was a post about some Monitor 70's and a $500-600 amp (I think we can all agree on that).
So at that point in time it wasn't clear if it was the 70 II (About $500 market currenlty) or the 70 (about $350's on blow outs, I know I setup 2 HT's with them and the 50's).
My point was that the 70 II's plus $500-$600 in amp put you at $1k to 1.1K. It was a question about return on investment.
I think general agreement here would be the TSi 500's are a superior speaker to the 70 II. That for the same outlay of cash ($1k - 1.1K) you could get the TSi 500s (or their refresh, which would be fair, since I am assuming the Monitors have been refreshed, the LSi's have a refresh coming... extrapolate that to the TSi/RTi) and a more than capable amp (in my example the HCA1000a that I own).
That when comparing the ~ $1k spent that the amp(~$500) on the Monitor 70's (~$500) will NOT bridge the sonic performance delta with the TSi 500's ($800) being driven by a respected and capable $200 amp.
Of course it isn't an apples to apples comparison. Of course it is an apple to oranges comparison. It's supposed to be. When I go and listen to audio equipment I don't A/B the same B&W speakers.
It was about the best way to go about spending $1k. -
Hmmm...
I've got a pair of Quad 988's.....I have Heathkit W5M's for amps. Was thinking what a pair of Manley Stingray's would bring to the table.
So following your logic....I'd be better off buying, say, Maggie 20.1's with a different amp.
Yeah, I get what your saying....but it has NOTHING to do with the original question. Yeah, there is ALWAYS a different choice.
Eh, screw it.
The Plot <here>............................................................................jinjuku<there>
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut -
Hmmm...
I've got a pair of Quad 988's.....I have Heathkit W5M's for amps. Was thinking what a pair of Manley Stingray's would bring to the table.
So following your logic....I'd be better off buying, say, Maggie 20.1's with a different amp.
Yeah, I get what your saying....but it has NOTHING to do with the original question. Yeah, there is ALWAYS a different choice.
Eh, screw it.
The Plot <here>............................................................................jinjuku<there>
BDT
No, following my logic we are talking about $1K to spend.
The Plot
<here>............................................................................TroyD<did he just run out of the room?)
You enjoy your Quad's, I'll enjoy my Mission Statements. -
That when comparing the ~ $1k spent that the amp(~$500) on the Monitor 70's (~$500) will NOT bridge the sonic performance delta with the TSi 500's ($800) being driven by a respected and capable $200 amp.
It was about the best way to go about spending $1k.
All I can say is you are Totally and Utterly Wrong on this subject. You absolutely can't ration your budget like that.
Even if there is a way to put the numbers, I would start of with $500 in electronics and $500 in speakers as a basics 50-50 rule.
There is no need to tell me how the $200 amplifier can perform. I've been there. Done that. Pass That.Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
OK, time to chime in... Is someone having amp envy??? I mean, the 1000a is a nice amp, but nowhere near as capable as the 2200II, or even the 1500a... The Transformer and Capacitance alone are enough for me to want to make the jump to the 1500a. I have heard the TSi500's, they are nice speakers, but not nice enough for me to make the jump from the Monitor 70's. The difference wasn't mind blowing to me... At that price, I would rather spend my money on say....... some LSi15's used, or, go the way I did, bag me some SDA 1C's. I wonder how those would compare to the TSi500's????? :eek:
We can make irrational comparisons all day long....
You seem bent on proving to me and everyone else in this thread that the TSi500's are miles beyond the Monitor 70's when driven by an inferior amplifier to the 1500a and the 2200II. I am having trouble with that. Do I think that the TSi500's might sound a little better in that configuration? I think I could agree there. But, I would rather get an amp that is going to last me through several sets of speakers, than get a speaker and amp pair EVERY time I upgrade.
My thoughts....
DonLiving Room: Adcom GFP-750 (Upgraded), Squeezebox Touch, Oppo BDP-83, Pioneer DV-79AVi, Parasound HCA-3500 (Upgraded), SDA SRS 2 P/B (Gimpod, Sonicaps, & Mills)
Theater: Denon 4311ci, Oppo BDP-93, Parasound HCA-2205+HCA-2200II, Polk LSi9, LSiC, LSiFX, LSi7, Custom 18" TC Sounds sub with 2 18" PR, Sharp XV-Z12000, Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M (isf Enabled)
Bedroom: HK AVR354, Pioneer DV-47a, Parasound HCA-1500a, Polk LSi9 -
All I can say is you are Totally and Utterly Wrong on this subject. You absolutely can't ration your budget like that.
Even if there is a way to put the numbers, I would start of with $500 in electronics and $500 in speakers as a basics 50-50 rule.
There is no need to tell me how the $200 amplifier can perform. I've been there. Done that. Pass That.
So the HCA1000a is a dog?
I would say the same with your 50/50 rule. I lean more towards a 70/30 rule. That rule actually increases to favor speakers IMO because amplification as you go up the cost chain reach their point of diminishing returns more quickly than speakers IMO.
So if you had $10K you would spend $5k on speakers and $5k on amp? $20K/30/40/50?
Also I am not saying that you need to stick to any ratio. You do what you want. -
I would say the same with your 50/50 rule. I lean more towards a 70/30 rule. That rule actually increases to favor speakers IMO because amplification as you go up the cost chain reach their point of diminishing returns more quickly than speakers IMO.
So if you had $10K you would spend $5k on speakers and $5k on amp? $20K/30/40/50?
I think we found something we agree on :cool: Returns on amps versus speakers as you go up the line a tremendously different.
But I will say this, I know there is a BIG difference in the $200 1000a and the $500-$600 2200II on every capable speaker I have put it on. I had a 1000a, it is now gone. Gave it to a friend. I replaced it with a 1500a, there is a reason for that...
One question noone has asked... Have you heard Monitor 70's on a 1500a or 2200II???
DonLiving Room: Adcom GFP-750 (Upgraded), Squeezebox Touch, Oppo BDP-83, Pioneer DV-79AVi, Parasound HCA-3500 (Upgraded), SDA SRS 2 P/B (Gimpod, Sonicaps, & Mills)
Theater: Denon 4311ci, Oppo BDP-93, Parasound HCA-2205+HCA-2200II, Polk LSi9, LSiC, LSiFX, LSi7, Custom 18" TC Sounds sub with 2 18" PR, Sharp XV-Z12000, Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M (isf Enabled)
Bedroom: HK AVR354, Pioneer DV-47a, Parasound HCA-1500a, Polk LSi9 -
dcmartinpc wrote: »OK, time to chime in... Is someone having amp envy??? I mean, the 1000a is a nice amp, but nowhere near as capable as the 2200II, or even the 1500a... The Transformer and Capacitance alone are enough for me to want to make the jump to the 1500a. I have heard the TSi500's, they are nice speakers, but not nice enough for me to make the jump from the Monitor 70's. The difference wasn't mind blowing to me... At that price, I would rather spend my money on say....... some LSi15's used, or, go the way I did, bag me some SDA 1C's. I wonder how those would compare to the TSi500's????? :eek:
We can make irrational comparisons all day long....
You seem bent on proving to me and everyone else in this thread that the TSi500's are miles beyond the Monitor 70's when driven by an inferior amplifier to the 1500a and the 2200II. I am having trouble with that. Do I think that the TSi500's might sound a little better in that configuration? I think I could agree there. But, I would rather get an amp that is going to last me through several sets of speakers, than get a speaker and amp pair EVERY time I upgrade.
My thoughts....
Don
No amp envy what so ever. Quite happy with my 5503 and the 1000a. Also my EP2500. All quite capable for the roles that they fill. I don't think I am lacking, so therefore no itch to scratch.
I also agree with an amp that will stay in the stack and drive whatever you throw at it that is just a smart investment. Luckily I don't have to play at that restrictive price point.
But to the person getting into this hobby, and of initial limited funds, there is no reason that an amp like the 1000a (especially at the right price) can't provide years of good service and multiple speaker upgrades. I personally can't recommend a person starting out getting $500 in amp and $500 in speakers. YMMV. -
dcmartinpc wrote: »I think we found something we agree on :cool: Returns on amps versus speakers as you go up the line a tremendously different.
But I will say this, I know there is a BIG difference in the $200 1000a and the $500-$600 2200II on every capable speaker I have put it on. I had a 1000a, it is now gone. Gave it to a friend. I replaced it with a 1500a, there is a reason for that...
One question noone has asked... Have you heard Monitor 70's on a 1500a or 2200II???
Don
I have heard the Monitor 70's on my 1000a and my 5503 and an Onkyo 805 (used as both pre in **** around and amplification in their final resting place). Both amps opened up the speakers compared to the receiver.
I've done two setups with the Monitor 70's/50's for HT now. Really great bang for the buck speaker.
The 1000A actually has a lower noise floor than the 5503. But when getting on the volume the 5503 did a better job keeping it together. Just trade offs IMO.
Thumbs up on getting some used LSi's. I wonder what will happen with pricing on the out going models? Anything like the Monitors I hope. -
So the HCA1000a is a dog?
I would say the same with your 50/50 rule. I lean more towards a 70/30 rule. That rule actually increases to favor speakers IMO because amplification as you go up the cost chain reach their point of diminishing returns more quickly than speakers IMO.
So if you had $10K you would spend $5k on speakers and $5k on amp? $20K/30/40/50?
Also I am not saying that you need to stick to any ratio. You do what you want.
Where did I say HCA1000a is a dog?
No. I don't use 50/50 rule. I have no such rules. But I was saying it's what I would do if I need to put numbers on my budget.
I personally don't put numbers or rules for the sake of enjoyment.
Return on Investment? I love it. You need to buy Stock!
I guess it's time to move up the electronics chain from $200 amp to $300 amp and see what it can do to your speakers.Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
Jinjuku,
I didn't get used LSi's, I made the jump to SDA 1C's. I picked up the pair that was on here for sale. :eek: Pretty stoked about those!!! I will most likely be driving the 1C's with my newly modded HCA-3500!!! I should have that amp in the next couple weeks. I love how plans change in the middle.
Regardless, I will be keeping my eyes open for the LSi15's if there is any stock left by then. I would love to pick up a pair of those at $500 or $600 shipped!!!
DonLiving Room: Adcom GFP-750 (Upgraded), Squeezebox Touch, Oppo BDP-83, Pioneer DV-79AVi, Parasound HCA-3500 (Upgraded), SDA SRS 2 P/B (Gimpod, Sonicaps, & Mills)
Theater: Denon 4311ci, Oppo BDP-93, Parasound HCA-2205+HCA-2200II, Polk LSi9, LSiC, LSiFX, LSi7, Custom 18" TC Sounds sub with 2 18" PR, Sharp XV-Z12000, Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M (isf Enabled)
Bedroom: HK AVR354, Pioneer DV-47a, Parasound HCA-1500a, Polk LSi9 -
Where did I say HCA1000a is a dog?
No. I don't use 50/50 rule. I have no such rules. But I was saying it's what I would do if I need to put numbers on my budget.
I personally don't put numbers or rules for the sake of enjoyment.
Return on Investment? I love it. You need to buy Stock!
I guess it's time to move up the electronics chain from $200 amp to $300 amp and see what it can do to your speakers.
I have an Adcom 5503 that I can swap out anytime I want with the 1000a (unless the 5503 isn't a capable enough amp:rolleyes:).
I have and under normal listening volumes and critical listening it has never made the impact that moving up the food chain speaker wise has done.
The 5503 can drive a set of $1K speakers as well as a set of $10k or $15k speakers. -
dcmartinpc wrote: »Jinjuku,
I didn't get used LSi's, I made the jump to SDA 1C's. I picked up the pair that was on here for sale. :eek: Pretty stoked about those!!! I will most likely be driving the 1C's with my newly modded HCA-3500!!! I should have that amp in the next couple weeks. I love how plans change in the middle.
Regardless, I will be keeping my eyes open for the LSi15's if there is any stock left by then. I would love to pick up a pair of those at $500 or $600 shipped!!!
Don
I keep my eyes out for some SDA's locally. But I am not holding my breath. -
I got lucky on these. He is 3 hours away, but he is driving within 15 minutes of me for his work! So he is going to deliver them to me!!! I figured it was meant to be. And they are fully upgraded. Can't Wait!!!
DonLiving Room: Adcom GFP-750 (Upgraded), Squeezebox Touch, Oppo BDP-83, Pioneer DV-79AVi, Parasound HCA-3500 (Upgraded), SDA SRS 2 P/B (Gimpod, Sonicaps, & Mills)
Theater: Denon 4311ci, Oppo BDP-93, Parasound HCA-2205+HCA-2200II, Polk LSi9, LSiC, LSiFX, LSi7, Custom 18" TC Sounds sub with 2 18" PR, Sharp XV-Z12000, Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M (isf Enabled)
Bedroom: HK AVR354, Pioneer DV-47a, Parasound HCA-1500a, Polk LSi9 -
dcmartinpc wrote: »I got lucky on these. He is 3 hours away, but he is driving within 15 minutes of me for his work! So he is going to deliver them to me!!! I figured it was meant to be. And they are fully upgraded. Can't Wait!!!
Don
Congrats... -
I have an Adcom 5503 that I can swap out anytime I want with the 1000a (unless the 5503 isn't a capable enough amp:rolleyes:).
I have and under normal listening volumes and critical listening it has never made the impact that moving up the food chain speaker wise has done.
So, you are saying the Adcom 5503 makes a little impact where the speakers made a more noticeable impact?
Sit back, get a pot of tea and think for a day why the switching of speakers make more impact where the amps doesn't make good impact to begin with.
May be you got the **** speakers to begin with? May be you just found out the your new found speakers are better than your previous **** speakers?
You'll also find that other speakers upgrades costing 3-4 times the cost of your current speakers are lateral move and point of diminishing returns to be less and less.
It's the same thing as you begin with the amp. The price of diminishing returns after you've got a good value speakers and amps.
That's why I said there is no rules for the budgeting. It's about hits and misses.The 5503 can drive a set of $1K speakers as well as a set of $10k or $15k speakers.
Sure! Anything works fine with anything even if it sounds like farting.Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
So, you are saying the Adcom 5503 makes a little impact where the speakers made a more noticeable impact?
I am saying speakers make, and have vastly more potential, a SQ difference than amplification.Sit back, get a pot of tea and think for a day why the switching of speakers make more impact where the amps doesn't make good impact to begin with.
I don't need to. I understand why. Speakers are the one thing mechanically producing a waveform.May be you got the **** speakers to begin with? May be you just found out the your new found speakers are better than your previous **** speakers?
??You'll also find that other speakers upgrades costing 3-4 times the cost of your current speakers are lateral move and point of diminishing returns to be less and less.
I'll let you know when my Mission Statements are completed.It's the same thing as you begin with the amp. The price of diminishing returns after you've got a good value speakers and amps.
Never said there were or were not. Just saying that the upgrade path of improvement SQ wise for speakers is much longer than the upgrade path of improvement for amps.That's why I said there is no rules for the budgeting. It's about hits and misses.
Do you see me arguing? Just a difference of opinion.Sure! Anything works fine with anything even if it sounds like farting.
?? -
I am saying speakers make, and have vastly more potential, a SQ difference than amplification.
I guess you have a beef with good amplifications? On contrary, the amps make VAST difference to the good speakers.
I don't need to. I understand why. Speakers are the one thing mechanically producing a waveform.
Yes! It reproduces the waveform but what kind of waveform depends on how well an amp can sends the signal to speakers.
Let's look at this way. If Speakers are mechanical Oscilloscope, they need good amplifiers to accurately display the waveforms.Never said there were or were not. Just saying that the upgrade path of improvement SQ wise for speakers is much longer than the upgrade path of improvement for amps.
I guess it's the opposite again. The upgrade path of Electronics is long and non ending. Once you found your best speakers, you could live with it for another 20 yrs.Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
I guess you have a beef with good amplifications? On contrary, the amps make VAST difference to the good speakers.
None at all. I have good amplification. Just rather my $$ goes toward speakers. YMMVYes! It reproduces the waveform but what kind of waveform depends on how well an amp can sends the signal to speakers.
There are a lot of reasonable cost amps that will deliver a solid waveform.Let's look at this way. If Speakers are mechanical Oscilloscope, they need good amplifiers to accurately display the waveforms.
Which is why I am a proponent of solid and proven electronics.I guess it's the opposite again. The upgrade path of Electronics is long and non ending. Once you found your best speakers, you could live with it for another 20 yrs.
Once you have your best sounding setup from source->......->Speakers why change anything? Just simply enjoy. -
I've always found it quite easy to match up electronics. Synergy is overrated.CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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dcmartinpc wrote: »The A23 is a great amplifier. But the 2200II has significantly more power and I think it is a better amp. I have heard the A23 on Monitor 70's, and it sounds good, but the 2200II is at a different level.
Peak current has more to do with, from what I understand, an amplifier's ability to drive difficult speaker loads (Low Ohm Ratings). The higher the current rating, the better the ability to handle those loads. I may be wrong, someone please correct me if so. There are definitely differences between these amps. The A21 is much more on par with the 2200II. The 2200II is much better than any of the new classic series.
Don
I own one of each. I bought the 2200ii new in 1994 and have NEVER had a problem with it. It powered a brand new pair of LS90's back then. Now it powers either my LSi9's or Magenepan SMGa's without breaking a sweat.
The A23 also does a great job with either of the above also but is attached to my CRS+'s and sounding excellent with them.
You can't go wrong with most Parasound amps, these two are good ones.
I can't see replacing the 2200ii until it flat out dies/gets stolen or???
my 2 cents."The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." Neil deGrasse Tyson. -
BTW is Adcom out of business?
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Doro,
Synergy in general is only touching the skin. There are other issue than just Synergy alone.
Synergy is for those who don't have it. For those who have it and not know it, it requires proving!
But for the audio industry, it's the rake to pull in money.
Jinjuku,
Hard to say the Best piece of speaker or gear or rig exist. Good, Better and Best all are subjective.Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
Which is better. 205wpc @ 8ohms, 60amps peak or 250wpc @ 8ohms, 45amps peak?
What would be the sound differences in a pair of 8ohm towers? Just curious. I have the 2250 but I see an HCA-1500a for half the price.ALL BOXED UP for a while until I save up for a new place
Home Theater:
KEF Q900s / MIT Shotgun S3 / MIT CVT2 ICs | KEF Q600C | Polk FXi5 | BJC Wire | Signal / AQ ICs | Shunyata / Pangea PCs | Pioneer Elite SC 57 | Parasound NC2100 Pre | NAD M25 | Marantz SA8001 | Schiit Gungnir DAC | SB Touch
2 Channel:
Polk LSi9 (xo mods), Polk DSW MicroPro 2000 sub | NAD c375BEE | W4S DAC1 | SB Touch | Marantz SA-8001 | MIT AVt 2 | Kimber Hero / AQ / Signal ICs | Shunyata / Signal PCs -
Which is better. 205wpc @ 8ohms, 60amps peak or 250wpc @ 8ohms, 45amps peak?
What would be the sound differences in a pair of 8ohm towers? Just curious. I have the 2250 but I see an HCA-1500a for half the price.
On paper the Parasound that is 205wpc/8ohm with 60 amps peak. I would get the 1500a at 1/2 the price.
What is that doubling in price really going to net you in SQ when it comes to two competent amps?
