Not made in America any more

woodhead 2

ben62670 wrote: »

Buy American. Said before and I will say it again!

Amen

tonyb

Buy American.....why ? If it costs more, your just supporting the same buisness model that keeps driving jobs overseas. Profits drive buisness,can we agree on that? If so, how do you expect buisness to stay here when we keep taking their profits and/or have policy in place to make it harder for them. Look at every industry that has gone or is in the process of going belly up. Auto, construction companys, healthcare industry, airlines, hotels, manufacturing, even government...local and federal, teachers, they all have 2 things in common, government regulation and unions. I'm not one of those nutjobs that call for no regulation,obviously we need some, but too much can be bad also. Throw our entitlements in the mix and you have a real problem bringing back manufacturing jobs. Here in Chicago, manufacturing jobs were never big money payers with most in the 8-12 dollar range. Exceptions exist, generally speaking. If you have a system that will pay you 400 plus bucks a week to not work, where's the motivation ? Policy has driven alot of peoples mentality to get what they can for free...even though it's not free as we all know. What happens if you try and change that system ? Your called a racist, you only support rich people,blah,blah. The unions at one point in time had their place, to offer collective bargaining,a better wage, pensions,healthcare. With the idea that a better lifestyle for middleclass people is good for the economy,the more money in your pocket,the more you'll spend. They have over the decades morfed into something entirely different today. An effort has been underway for along time to knock our standard of living down a few notches instead of trying to bring the rest of the world up to ours.Instead of celebrating American exceptionalism, we go around the globe and appologize for it. Lots of things need to change here for us to continue to be a leader in the world. Sometimes you have to ask your leaders in Washington if even thats the intent of the policys they create. How is a company like Google allowed the Presidents ear,while laundering billions overseas to avoid paying taxes here ? Too many puppet masters pulling the strings down in Washington for anything of meaning to get done. It has to change for our survival to continue. In a way, I support your "buy american" cry, but make me want to because above all else,it is my personal life,my family, that has to survive first. And I don't mean by freebies either. We need jobs,not 7 dollar an hour ones, government to get the frack out of the way, decent trade agreements that benefit the people,not a few fatcats, and confidence that an over reaching government won't take more out of my wallet. I know easier said than done,but you have to start somewhere to bring the confidence and the investment dollars back home. I'm not even going to touch the national debt today, I'm pooped.

nooshinjohn

You understand just the tip of the iceberg Tony... For much of the past 100 years, there has been a movement in this country, and supported by foreign powers, whose stated goal has been to undermine the foundations upon which we were founded. Their tools have been the labor unions, the education system, our faith centers, the media, and the government itself.

When labor unions failed, our schools, primarily colleges (and now k-12) were used to train like minded young socialists for positions of power in business, the media and government. Today, these groups are "collapsing the system" as they promised they would do 40 years ago. The latter-day flower children (Nancy Pelosi) that are running things now believe that we (America) need to learn our lesson by being reduced to third world status so that we can repay the sins we committed against the planet for having so much wealth. They truly believe that in order to save the planet, that American Exceptionalism must be extinguished, and we are just to stupid to see that.

If you want to see a rebirth of American Ingenuity, you must first get the government off the backs of business... The Japanese pay American workers 40 bucks an hour (with benefits) to build cars on our soil! Kill the EPA, NEA and the IRS. The first two need no replacement, but the IRS must be replaced with a flat tax of say 12% on all income above 25k/yr for individuals and on business income above 500k. These tax policies must further be protected by requiring a 2/3 majority to raise them, except in time of a formal declaration of war. This, combined with a constitutional requirement to balance the budget, with 10% of our GDP earmarked specifically to PAY OFF the national debt would do much to bring jobs back home.

Toxis

Maybe if A: we didn't demand more money for B: a lesser quality product, this problem would never have become an issue. Overpaid, under qualified people kill profits...

nooshinjohn

Toxis wrote: »

Maybe if A: we didn't demand more money for B: a lesser quality product, this problem would never have become an issue. Overpaid, under qualified people kill profits...

Government over-regulation force companies to find ever cheaper ways of doing things, in both materials and labor. There is no competition anywhere government is involved...

sucks2beme

Toxis wrote: »

Maybe if A: we didn't demand more money for B: a lesser quality product, this problem would never have become an issue. Overpaid, under qualified people kill profits...

No union where I'm at. Support jobs are going to India like crazy.
No, they don't know jack, and the customer can't understand anything
they are saying. It's all about the money. They gave salaried employees
7-10 days unpaid furloughs, no trading it for vacation either.
Then they declared bonuses. Gee, look, the cost savings equal
the bonuses to be paid out.
It's not about quality, just CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP. Can they do the job?
NO. By the time they learn enough not to be dangerous, they are already
gone and replaced with a new bunch of untrained cheap bodies.

So I really hate that line of logic. It's meaningless. 6 months from now,
if another sub-contract place in another country undercuts them by
a $1 a day, the work will go there. Then I'll have to do damage control all over again.

munk

Regardless of where it's made, do not buy a radio flyer for your kids. You can bend the sides in with your hands- about as thick as the fender on a Toyota.

They are not the indestructable tank of the 1960's. Whatever bean counter cheapened the product killed the line. The paint came off when it rained, too.....

headrott

ben62670 wrote: »

So out sourcing tons of jobs and not buying American is not hurting us. Tell that to all the people that used to build things in the US.

I think it is Ben. I think it hurts us in that (as you said) it's sending money out and it's not coming back in. Plus, the products we are buying are (in a vast majority of cases) inferior quality, made to last a few years at best and in some cases downright dangerous.

Greg

Bobsama

One possible solution would be to stop layering on taxes on both business and industry. Perhaps cut taxes to <10% on businesses that manufacture exclusively on US soil. We have the manpower and the intelligence to manufacturer everything needed by Americans in America. The story is much the same in Europe as well. One flat income tax should cover all bases.

cnh

nooshinjohn wrote: »

You understand just the tip of the iceberg Tony... For much of the past 100 years, there has been a movement in this country, and supported by foreign powers, whose stated goal has been to undermine the foundations upon which we were founded. Their tools have been the labor unions, the education system, our faith centers, the media, and the government itself.

When labor unions failed, our schools, primarily colleges (and now k-12) were used to train like minded young socialists for positions of power in business, the media and government. Today, these groups are "collapsing the system" as they promised they would do 40 years ago. The latter-day flower children (Nancy Pelosi) that are running things now believe that we (America) need to learn our lesson by being reduced to third world status so that we can repay the sins we committed against the planet for having so much wealth. They truly believe that in order to save the planet, that American Exceptionalism must be extinguished, and we are just to stupid to see that.

If you want to see a rebirth of American Ingenuity, you must first get the government off the backs of business... The Japanese pay American workers 40 bucks an hour (with benefits) to build cars on our soil! Kill the EPA, NEA and the IRS. The first two need no replacement, but the IRS must be replaced with a flat tax of say 12% on all income above 25k/yr for individuals and on business income above 500k. These tax policies must further be protected by requiring a 2/3 majority to raise them, except in time of a formal declaration of war. This, combined with a constitutional requirement to balance the budget, with 10% of our GDP earmarked specifically to PAY OFF the national debt would do much to bring jobs back home.

That's an 'interesting' history John. In one fell swoop you've caricatured what is widely considered the BEST system of Higher Education in the World....I can, personally, tell you that WE are the ENVY of the Chinese Scientific community because I just spent a year discussing how to improve education in the Sciences in the Chinese University system, in China?

The Chinese Millionaires and Billionaires are still trying to get their kids into Harvard, MIT, CIT, Stanford and so on?

Finally, America has, historically, had an anti-intellectual bent. It is a bit adolescent to dismiss Eggheads because of their "knowledge and expertise". It's like the teenager who suddenly discovers that the idea that all humans are equal means I can say "NO" to anything anyone says...even if he/she has expertise and life experience that far exceeds my own. In a sense... there is a lot of that going around at the moment! So a 200,000 dollar education means? Nothing? Right! Don't mean to disagree. I just don't understand how anyone can back this up having spent the last 30 years in higher Education, myself?

I just can't agree. This is a time when America most needs its scholars and scientists! And they are still in the top tier world wide. In fact this is still one of the few places we are still Number One!

cnh

nooshinjohn

I am not talking about the pure sciences cnh, I am talking about the intelectual elitists that produce this kind of crap, currently being viewed in our schools.

http://www.storyofstuff.com/

One of this group's main supporters is the George Soros led Media Matters and the Tides Foundation. We are being undermined from within people....

cnh

I got you John...but you just made me spend 20+ minutes watching this!

I understand what you're saying and what your disagreement is with this content. I would add that this is ONE position among SEVERAL that regardless of what thinks of it, is, in fact debated on college and University campuses. That is NOT to say that there is an END point to that debate...because if there were, we would not be a free society. But this helps clarify what you're saying.

I think we are in agreement about the sciences, though.

cnh

nooshinjohn

cnh wrote: »

I got you John...but you just made me spend 20+ minutes watching this!

I understand what you're saying and what your disagreement is with this content. I would add that this is ONE position among SEVERAL that regardless of what thinks of it, is, in fact debated on college and University campuses. That is NOT to say that there is an END point to that debate...because if there were, we would not be a free society. But this helps clarify what you're saying.

I think we are in agreement about the sciences, though.

cnh

The trouble is that we are not following our founding principles any longer, on any level, both at home and around the world. They are not taught in our schools, followed by our institutions, or upheld in our courts. We need to get back to those values and ideas that led us to become the greatest nation the world has ever known. Once we reconnect with what made us great, we can do so again.

dudeinaroom

zarrdoss wrote: »

I think one of the main problems is everybody wants to do as little work for the most amount of money possible these days. Were getting lazy and second rate with the rest of the world, time to wake up America, we used to be a proud nation with a strong work ethic, what ever happened to American know how?

What happened is, both parents have to work so they can not raise there kids properly. The schools can not discipline the kids they have no accountability. Parents are no longer allowed to discipline with anything more than a time out for fear of a neighbor calling cps on you. This is all in the generation right after mine, so now we have young adults in the work force that want 90 dollars an hour, want to work one hour a day, 4 days a week. And a job well done is the on that they plan to start tomorrow. This is not true of every one, but I see it way to much. If I ask just about any one under the age of 25 at work to take care of a cleaning task, they ask "How do I do that?" Really, you don't know how to do dishes, or wipe off a counter? You graduated, but do not know how to clean? I think it is pretty bad that only two guys work there, and if you want something cleaned the right way, you have to ask one of the two of us to do it.

dudeinaroom

nooshinjohn wrote: »

The trouble is that we are not following our founding principles any longer, on any level, both at home and around the world. They are not taught in our schools, followed by our institutions, or upheld in our courts. We need to get back to those values and ideas that led us to become the greatest nation the world has ever known. Once we reconnect with what made us great, we can do so again.

Thank you.

cstmar01

People also need to learn why to buy something of better quality.

First you start out as a kid, you have parents telling their children to buy this or that, but whatever is the cheapest because there is no point in over spending, be it clothing, food, whatever, just get the cheap, you can buy more when its cheap and the more the better (personal observation).

Move that child into a college setting. They have to now fend for themselves, on their own to buy what? Whats cheap because thats all they can afford. Living off wal mart food or what ever they can find for cheap as they have to work to put themselves through school (or get a loan as they can't afford it otherwise) and just follow the mindset before.

That person now is an adult, moves through life with the former ideas that they grew up with, cheap and more. They then see maybe something made locally, such as a local shop that might cost a few bucks more, but because they can run down to the local wally world and pick up product for 2 bucks cheaper, or get 50% more why shop local? why support other business, the american dream was to get everything you wanted and more right?

I'm not saying everything should be done here, always, at all times. There are products that make sense due to conditions that have to be imported. (do you really see a lot of banana's trees in WI??? in the cold hard nights of winter?).

But people need to understand as well that not always more is better, not everything you can buy for cheaper results in a better thing or money more wisely spent.

But once again, why change? someone grows up like this, is not likely to change unless they want to for themselves.

There are other problems but a key one in my mind of how to change things is the thought process. You can make all the goods and services here you want, but if the person always will buy product B which is cheaper that is all they WANT to see.

steveinaz

Liability, production costs, lack of compromise and loyalty.

In a nutshell.

munk

There is still a major desire for quality goods. Many manufacturers have decided to go for a fast dollar with cheaper construction they can sell at a lower price. Yet the consumer still rewards quality merchandise- check out Polk speakers.

The 'person will not always buy product B which is cheaper'. But cheap has created a two or three tier merchandise ladder, Crap, OK, and Great.

I know I'd gladly pay double for a quality toaster that actually gets hot enough to toast the bread without drying it out, and lasts for more than a year.

PhantomOG

Why does everyone always complain about all the very low paying menial manufacturing jobs going overseas, and no one mentions the TONS of high paying engineering jobs here in the US that are being filled mostly by immigrants from Asia (China/India)?

Jstas

Speaking of not made in America anymore, if you want to get "in" on GM's IPO, you gotta beat China to the punch first.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/11/08/report-chinas-saic-motors-will-buy-shares-of-gm-ipo/

Report: China's SAIC Motors will buy shares of GM IPO

by Zach Bowman (RSS feed) on Nov 8th 2010 at 3:58PM

While General Motors may be jetting around the globe in an attempt to woo investors, one company has made it clear it wants to snap up plenty of GM stock once The General goes public. Chinese manufacturer SAIC Motor President Chen Hong is currently in the States to negotiate with the American automaker about procuring GM shares. His company currently packs around $5.7 billion in cash or cash equivalents, so SAIC Motor shouldn't have any problem laying its hands on more than few GM shares.

SAIC has a history of working closely with GM in the past. The two companies have joined forces on everything from powertrain development to full name plates. If anyone knows the ins and outs of working with the biggest of the big three, it's these guys.

GM has announced that the company will go public once again on November 18 and plans to raise $10.6 billion in the process. Look for shares to go for anywhere between $26 and $29. GM will also offer $3 billion in preferred stock at the same time. Exactly how much of that goes to SAIC Motor remains to be seen.

steveinaz

Because we finally realized that mommy & daddy can pay for everything, send us to the finest school in our new BMW, and give us an open line of credit---but they can't make us learn. Darn.

headrott

Jstas wrote: »

Speaking of not made in America anymore, if you want to get "in" on GM's IPO, you gotta beat China to the punch first.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/11/08/report-chinas-saic-motors-will-buy-shares-of-gm-ipo/

If I am not mistaken I believe Cadillacs are made in China. (There's nothing that says luxury class of GM cars made in one of the lowest quality control standards on Earth.) So, it makes sense for them to buy as much stock as they can. Hell, at the rate they are buying, they'll own GM.

Greg

nooshinjohn

headrott wrote: »

If I am not mistaken I believe Cadillacs are made in China. (There's nothing that says luxury class of GM cars made in one of the lowest quality control standards on Earth.) So, it makes sense for them to buy as much stock as they can. Hell, at the rate they are buying, they'll own GM.

Greg

They already OWN U.S.

headrott

nooshinjohn wrote: »

They already OWN U.S.

Not me!:biggrin::biggrin:

Greg

nooshinjohn

headrott wrote: »

Not me!:biggrin::biggrin:

Greg

Unless we get our principles back... It is not to late to turn back yet, but we cannot drive 150mph along the edge of the abyss forever.

As a side note, I am amazed at how civil this discussion has stayed despite the nature of the topic.

headrott

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Unless we get our principles back... It is not to late to turn back yet, but we cannot drive 150mph along the edge of the abyss forever.

As a side note, I am amazed at how civil this discussion has stayed despite the nature of the topic.

Unfortunately John (I agree it's not too late to turn back) I think the world governments are on a "one world" agenda. They will not be steering towards another direction any time soon. It's hard to turn doing 150MPH, and unfortunately I don't think they are going to slow down. If anything the leaders of the governments will speed up from here on out. We'll soon be up to 200MPH.

Greg

MillerLiteScott

Or 321.86 KPH Headrott:rolleyes:

headrott

MillerLiteScott wrote: »

Or 321.86 KPH Headrott:rolleyes:

You're thinking globally I see.

Greg

MillerLiteScott

Greg, I just think I watch to much F1.

I am actually quite scared at the direction we are headed.

Scott

Big Dawg

ESavinon wrote: »

We are becoming a nation of Attorneys and Consultants.

You say that like it's a bad thing....