Need Help from all the experienced Heating/Cooling guys

rdb2001

My house was built in 1999. Its about 2000 sqft, enough for just me and my wife. We have central air and heat but its not your typical system. One repair tech called it a hydro system. Let me go into more detail. The main system is in my attic. For air I have the normal condensing unit outside which feeds the unit in the attic. I have a 3 ton carrier that is all of a year old. For heat, this unit uses the hot water heater to heat the house. Seems like a good idea until winter hits and you need hot water and heat. I have had my share of lukewarm/cold showers because of this and do not want to go through this again this winter. I am trying to see what would be the best solution for this. I have 3 ideas.

#1
I thought about adding a second hot water heater and having one run the hot water in the house and the other take care of the heat. I do not know if this is even an option.

#2
I thought about just getting a bigger hot water heater. Something like 70-80 gallons. I think I have either a 40 or 50 gallon now.

#3
I thought about just getting a conventional system put in and taking the old system out.

I dont plan to be in the house past 3 more years as we begin a family so I do not know what would be the best scenario for cost and length of me being there. Thanks

kevhed72

I would check out one of those tankless hot water heaters...the name of the Mfgr escapes me right now...Reni or something

rdb2001

kevhed72 wrote: »

I would check out one of those tankless hot water heaters...the name of the Mfgr escapes me right now...Reni or something

Yeah read up on those and found out you may need two or more for whole house applications.

devani

if you use gas for stove, get a gas fireplace....you can tap from the gas line...

tapping gas line from existing one will be around $300-400 and cost of gas fireplace and you can heat the whole house...

rdb2001

devani wrote: »

if you use gas for stove, get a gas fireplace....you can tap from the gas line...

tapping gas line from existing one will be around $300-400 and cost of gas fireplace and you can heat the whole house...

Yeah toyed with that idea but my stove is electric. Just trying to figure out a simple cost effective solution.

gdb

Just install a "point of use" heater in the line to the bath room and call it a day........plus, enjoy hot showers again.

Polkie2009

Have heard on radio talk shows that the tankless water heaters have a problem sometimes dealing with buildup due to hard water. There's a lot of sensors in the system that don't work so well with the mineral deposits. They mentioned that hybrid units out there that may work better.Maybe someone else with experience on tankless can chime in.

rdb2001

gdb wrote: »

Just install a "point of use" heater in the line to the bath room and call it a day........plus, enjoy hot showers again.

So your saying just install a point of use water heater to heat the bathrooms water and be done?

disneyjoe7

Heat-pump over a straight cool system. Electric hot water system to heat house got to be the most expensive heating system going. IMHO

rdb2001

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

Heat-pump over a straight cool system. Electric hot water system to heat house got to be the most expensive heating system going. IMHO

I definitely would have decided against the house if I new I had this type of system. All roads seems to point to a second water heater to help carry the load. I am just wondering how much would it be just to get a conventional system installed because the ducts and other things are already there. They would just have to take the old system out and put the new system in its place. I could be wrong though.

gdb

If you've got nat. gas access a new, small boiler would pay for itself very quickly, even in the relatively mild climate where you live. Oil fired.....forget about it, not in 3 years anyway.

disneyjoe7

The ducts could stay the outside unit needs to be replaced with a heat pump unit, the side maybe ok not sure as you still need some electric heat backup when too cold to run the heat pump which I believe is around 28f. If I understand correctly new go there, old wouldn't go that low.

rdb2001

Ok you guys have lost me. The only thing outside is the condensing unit for air. everything else is in the attic including the hot water heater.

disneyjoe7

Heat pumps work for Air when you need it, and Heat when you need it. I works all the time...

nguyendot

Easy thing to do is the point of use - install a tankless water heater in your bathroom just for the bathroom.

They also sell point of use (electric) for sinks that heat only the water for that specific outlet.

obieone

If you have an hydronic set-up, then you need a boiler, and a boiler mate, OR a 2 stage boiler, which has two coils installed for both potable, and hydronic heat.
You can't run both potable, and heating water from a single heater.
IF ^this^ is the way it is set up now, then the contractor who installed it should lose their license, and be slapped.

rdb2001

obieone wrote: »

If you have an hydronic set-up, then you need a boiler, and a boiler mate, OR a 2 stage boiler, which has two coils installed for both potable, and hydronic heat.
You can't run both potable, and heating water from a single heater.
IF ^this^ is the way it is set up now, then the contractor who installed it should lose their license, and be slapped.

Well they need to be slapped as that is how it is installed. What do I do?

mrbigbluelight

gdb wrote: »

Just install a "point of use" heater in the line to the bath room and call it a day........plus, enjoy hot showers again.

Good advice, IMO.
Put one on each bathroom shower supply, and you're good to go.

Polkie2009 wrote: »

Have heard on radio talk shows that the tankless water heaters have a problem sometimes dealing with buildup due to hard water.

`

Just as you can run your SDA's using lamp cord wire, you can also run POU tankless units without using a water softener.
However .... it ain't a good idea.

Just throwing a softener idea out for reference, Lowes has a Whirlpool unit that's designed to remove 30000 grains of hardness before having to regenerate for $450.
Your area looks like it has 3 gpg (grains per gallon) hardness (which is low and good).

So your softener would regenerate every 10000 gallons. If your household uses 100 gallons per day, that's 100 days before regeneration.
That Whirlpool softener holds about 120 pounds of salt, so ..... ballpark, it ought to regen at least 3 times before depleting the salt, so ..... every 6 months you fill it back up with 3 bags of Morton System Saver II salt pellets ($5 a bag) and you're good to go. $2 - $3 a month for salt.

There's a LOT more expensive softener systems (with the "Magahelix, Ultra-Refram-Reverberated Cosmic Time Warp System' ), but .... a unit like this would do.

A plus on softeners .... your detergent use (both laundry and dishwasher) will go WAAAAAY down.
Maybe not so much in your area .... you do have relatively softer water, but a water softener might be a plus when selling your house.

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

Heat-pump over a straight cool system. Electric hot water system to heat house got to be the most expensive heating system going. IMHO

Agreed, although heat pump supplied heat does take a little getting used to after having natural gas heat. Heat pump heat comes out of the vents at .... 100 degrees ? Natural gas heat comes out at ..... 140 ?
Sometimes folks with heat pumps complain of their house feeling "drafty" due to the less hot supplied heat.

And an all-electric hot water supply would be killer: it would probably be cheaper to just burn furniture to heat kettles of water.
.... and that isn't much of an exageration.

obieone

rdb2001 wrote: »

Well they need to be slapped as that is how it is installed. What do I do?

A couple of things. You can try shooting 'jimmydep' a pm, he's a plumber up in Jersey. The other thing, is try contacting the state HVAC/ plumbing trade organization, and ask for a recommendation on a contractor that does hydronic.
This may get somewhat expensive, so I'd do as much research as possible. If you have a digital camera, take pic's of both the air-handler and the hot water coil, as well as the water heater. Somewhere on the water heater, there should be a data plate, with the btu rating, etc.

There are several ways to address this issue, some cheaper than others,but you'll need to consult a professional contractor.

Good luck

obieone

Sorrry, I hadn't had all my coffee when I posted earlier. IF you have a single air-handler, and natural gas coming into the house, you can have a contractor come in and just rip out whats in there, and install a gas frunace/ cooling combo. That's way more easier than trying to re-engineer around your existing system.
And shop around for quotes, again, using the trade organization/ state trade licensing board for references.

jimsvm

Option # 1 would be the most economical. Put an electric hot water tank in series on the domestic hot water line that feeds the house.

jimmydep

Shoot me a PM...........But my advice will be to first, have a professional evaluate whether your equipment is operating properly, That the system is of proper design, and if there are better cheaper and more energy efficeint options for YOUR use and situation.


Jimmy

mrbigbluelight

obieone wrote: »

There are several ways to address this issue, some cheaper than others,but you'll need to consult a professional contractor.

What ?!?! You'd trust the opinion of a professional over a Polkie !!!!

Good advice.

rdb2001

Thanks guys for all of the replies. I think I have decided to go with a gas fireplace. I have a fireplace already and would just need to add a gas line and the logs. Is there anything else I need to look into with this. It just seems easier than messing with the existing system. Would I need a blower for the fireplace? What btu range should I look for to help heat a 2000 sqft house? Anything else I need to look into, let me know. Thanks

gdb

Just be aware that true, vented fireplaces are very wasteful and that approx 80% of your heat goes up, and out the chimney!:eek:

Jim Shearer

A gas fireplace insert (we have one) is about 80% efficient. It's pretty much like having a nice looking gas furnace in the room. We opted for the thermostatic remote control. It can turn on & off by itself & has a blower (which is noisy). If the power goes out, there is a switch on the side to turn it on, but off course, w/o power there is no blower--but at least you have some heat.

We had a multi-day power outage a couple Decembers back and were really happy to have the gas fireplace.

Cheers, Jim

obieone

Question: How is adding a gas line to your fireplace going to get you more hot water?
That was your original concern, wasn't it?

rdb2001

obieone wrote: »

Question: How is adding a gas line to your fireplace going to get you more hot water?
That was your original concern, wasn't it?

My theory was if I dont have to use the heat, the hot water will be plentiful like in the summer. So if I decrease the load on the hot water heater by trying to heat most of the house with a gas fireplace, then the hotwater heater can just focus on sending hotwater through the house. Am I thinking wrong?

obieone

I don't recommend messing with the fireplace. I can't make the determination of what route you should take, you'll have to make that decision;
You can:
A. Add a water heater for the heat circuit, or
B. Add a POU water heater for the shower, wired in to a timer, for when you take showers
C. Rip out the existing air handler, and put in a furnace with a coil. This will involve running a gas line to the attic, as well as installing both a flue, and a fresh air intake.

At this point, the first thing I'd recommend, is to have the local bldg./ plumbing inspector come in, explain what your issues are, and ask his advice.

disneyjoe7

Why not

D. Heatpump system.

Just carious why not? Is this do to he got gas also, which I believe is cheapest?