how does size matter?

rockynbruno

I've received a lot of helpful advice on what gauge wire to use to hook up my speakers. I have a pair of tsi200 bookshelf speakers.

My question is, can someone explain to me in laymens terms, how the size of the wire effects the performance of the speakers? I'm assuming it does or there would be no point in discussing size?

I ask only because I want to understand the process. I hate going into a store and some guy tries to feed me a bunch of information I don't understand and figures cause I'm a woman I just don't "get it". :mad:

It seems the concessus is the 24 gauge wire the salesman sold me will work but there are better options. So when I go back, I want to be able to explain to him why it is that a different size would be better.

djperez81

i found this on another web site i guess it is the easiest way to explain.
"If you are driving speakers which require much power you might require larger diameter speaker wire. Think of pushing water through a pipe as an analogy. For more force of water larger pipes would make moving more water easier."

John K.

Rocky, welcome to Club Polk. An outstanding source of info on speaker wire topics by a veteran audio professional is found here and has helped listeners avoid the wire scams which pollute our hobby. Thinner wire is higher in resistance and uses up more of the power on the way to the speaker, but there's usually plenty to spare and this is the less significant factor. More important is the fact that when the wire resistance is too high, for a technical reason(the connecting wire and the wire in the speaker forms a "voltage divider"), the amount of power the speaker gets fluctuates up and down with the fluctuations in the speaker impedance at different frequencies. This makes the speaker output less even and therefore the sound is less accurate.

yeahbuddy

Gotta go back to physics on this one: resistance in a conductor is resistivity of a material (a constant) times length of the conductor divided by the cross-sectional area of the conductor. Higher resistance in a conductor (wire) leads to losses in transmitting electrons, which you try to minimize. You can minimize this by limiting the length of the run, selecting a material with lower resistivity (that's why copper is a popular choice), or increasing the cross-sectional area.

Then the question becomes how much resistance is enough to be noticeable. In this hobby this question tends to be subjective and people can make crazy claims of 'better' sound from x or y cable. In reality, for most purposes, 16awg copper wire won't have any scientifically noticeable difference than anything thicker for a run under about 20 feet.

F1nut

John K. wrote: »

Rocky, welcome to Club Polk. An outstanding source of info on speaker wire topics by a veteran audio professional is found here and has helped listeners avoid the wire scams which pollute our hobby. Thinner wire is higher in resistance and uses up more of the power on the way to the speaker, but there's usually plenty to spare and this is the less significant factor. More important is the fact that when the wire resistance is too high, for a technical reason(the connecting wire and the wire in the speaker forms a "voltage divider"), the amount of power the speaker gets fluctuates up and down with the fluctuations in the speaker impedance at different frequencies. This makes the speaker output less even and therefore the sound is less accurate.

Once again, preying on a newbie on a topic that you have no actual experience with. How do I know this? Simple, if you had any actual experience you would talk about it instead of posting a link to your favorite hack.

I really wish you would stop as you are doing far more harm than good.

F1nut

rockynbruno, judging by the type of speakers you own, I'm going to guess that the rest of your rig is at the same level. Therefore, any speaker cable in the 16 to 12 gauge range would get the job done nicely. If, in the future, you move up the audio ladder you can always revisit the matter at hand.

messiah

John K. wrote: »

Rocky, welcome to Club Polk. An outstanding source of info on speaker wire topics by a veteran audio professional is found here and has helped listeners avoid the wire scams which pollute our hobby. Thinner wire is higher in resistance and uses up more of the power on the way to the speaker, but there's usually plenty to spare and this is the less significant factor. More important is the fact that when the wire resistance is too high, for a technical reason(the connecting wire and the wire in the speaker forms a "voltage divider"), the amount of power the speaker gets fluctuates up and down with the fluctuations in the speaker impedance at different frequencies. This makes the speaker output less even and therefore the sound is less accurate.

Please do yourself a favor and don't listen to this jackass. F1 is spot on here.

rockynbruno

djperez81 wrote: »

i found this on another web site i guess it is the easiest way to explain.
"If you are driving speakers which require much power you might require larger diameter speaker wire. Think of pushing water through a pipe as an analogy. For more force of water larger pipes would make moving more water easier."

Thanks! Now I understand the basics of it.

rockynbruno

'Political Correctness'.........defined

"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a **** by the clean end."



TOO FUNNNY! Thanks for the info.

WilliamM2

F1nut wrote: »

Once again, preying on a newbie on a topic that you have no actual experience with. How do I know this? Simple, if you had any actual experience you would talk about it instead of posting a link to your favorite hack.

I really wish you would stop as you are doing far more harm than good.

And if you had any knowledge or experience, you would have asked the length of speaker wire she needs before recommending a gauge. :rolleyes:

halo71

WilliamM2 wrote: »

And if you had any knowledge or experience, you would have asked the length of speaker wire she needs before recommending a gauge. :rolleyes:

Yeah you are right, cause she is probably running well over 100' with that little set up.:rolleyes: Dude, get over yourself and stop trying to start $hit...again. Why you have not been banned from this site is a mystery to me.

WilliamM2

halo71 wrote: »

Yeah you are right, cause she is probably running well over 100' with that little set up.:rolleyes: Dude, get over yourself and stop trying to start $hit...again. Why you have not been banned from this site is a mystery to me.

I didn't start it. But you keep seeing only what you want.

Ricardo

Really? Again?

WilliamM2

Ricardo wrote: »

Really? Again?

I agree, he attacks John K. every time he posts. Don't know why it's allowed to continue.

Ricardo

Well, John's post cannot be considered as "neutral". He is looking for trouble, so he got it.

WilliamM2

Looked pretty nuetral and factual to me, could you point out where he was wrong, or trying to start trouble? I don't see it.

Ricardo

John K. wrote: »

Rocky, welcome to Club Polk. An outstanding source of info on speaker wire topics by a veteran audio professional is found here and has helped listeners avoid the wire scams which pollute our hobby.

William, I know you know. But since you ask. It would have been neutral without the highlighted text.

cstmar01

halo71 wrote: »

Yeah you are right, cause she is probably running well over 100' with that little set up.:rolleyes: Dude, get over yourself and stop trying to start $hit...again. Why you have not been banned from this site is a mystery to me.

once again Willy has to post in a cable thread that he knows is just going to start an argument rather than trying to contribute. Wonderful process don't ya think?

Hows the changing the whole cable industry game going there Will, protesting going well?

nooshinjohn

Any woman will tell you that size matters....

WilliamM2

cstmar01 wrote: »

once again Willy has to post in a cable thread that he knows is just going to start an argument rather than trying to contribute. Wonderful process don't ya think?

Hows the changing the whole cable industry game going there Will, protesting going well?

And what did you contribute here, other than bieng a hypocrite?

WilliamM2

Ricardo wrote: »

William, I know you know. But since you ask. It would have been neutral without the highlighted text.

Looks pretty factual to me. I guess it's a matter of perspective.

nooshinjohn

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Looks pretty factual to me. I guess it's a matter of perspective.

And your perspective would change if you actually tried to get your learn on... I just introduced a new PS Audio PerfectWave AC-5 power cable in my rig and the difference was immediate and vastly superior to the stock cord. Speaker wires can have a dramatic effect as well. As Jesse pointed out earlier, it may not make a difference in the OP's setup.

To the OP... Welcome to CP. Please kindly ignore the likes of WilliamM2, and JohnK.(there is a feature for that) It does bear mention that the source for their information about wires comes from a guy that uses very expensive wire in a line of speakers that he builds, so even the source doesn't believe the BS anymore.:rolleyes:This forum is a great body of knowlege. Just a word of caution... hold on to your wallet!:biggrin:

F1nut

WilliamM2 wrote: »

And if you had any knowledge or experience, you would have asked the length of speaker wire she needs before recommending a gauge. :rolleyes:

Considering that the OP was originally sold 24 gauge cable, I think it is a safe bet that we're talking short runs, but maybe you missed that in your haste to contribute nothing.

BlueFox

WilliamM2 wrote: »

And if you had any knowledge or experience, you would have asked the length of speaker wire she needs before recommending a gauge. :rolleyes:

For any low-end to medium level system 12 qauge hardware store twisted copper is fine. The length is irrelevent. In this situation always use 12 gauge for optimum results. This is because wire matters. If it did not matter then telephone wire would be sufficient. One day you might actually learn something. Then again some people are born dense and will never change.

cstmar01

WilliamM2 wrote: »

And what did you contribute here, other than bieng a hypocrite?

oh willy you just know what to say....

rockynbruno

F1nut wrote: »

Considering that the OP was originally sold 24 gauge cable, I think it is a safe bet that we're talking short runs, but maybe you missed that in your haste to contribute nothing.

Yes, I have aprox. 10 ft. per speaker.

rockynbruno

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Any woman will tell you that size matters....

NO, it doesn't. You just have to make the right connection; so to speak.

rockynbruno

Thanks to everyone for the help. I now have a better understanding of wire; even the banter back and for is informative. It helps weed STUFF out.

I will go out and buy different wire next week. Just wish my mother would go shopping one day so I could really crank up the volume:biggrin:

My son son stopped by the other day and was impressed that I made a "descent" perchase. I was gently reminded christmas is coming. Hint, Hint:rolleyes:

THANKS AGAIN!

nguyendot

Check out the used ads, people are always upgrading, making it easy to pick up some very good cable for very cheap. Better than starting from the bottom...

TECHNOKID

Well a thread from someone requesting for help now simply deserves a place in the Hall of Shame! Kids, I tell you :rolleyes:

camp21178

Wow! These speaker wire posts are intense, and very entertaining. On the Motorcycle Journal forums we have the same intensity about which oil or what octane fuel to use. I just wish that I and other newcomers to this site could get as many responses when we ask about an amplifier or CD player.