RTIa3 upgrade to LSI9... worth the price increase?

angles

Hey all -


Currently own a pair of RTI a3's with a dsw pro 500. AVR is a HK 3550 running in 2.1 in a 20x16 area with wooden floors. We listen to a variety of music (Noisia, satriani, jazz, etc) and like speakers that have a good midrange.
There's no place locally here that has any LSI9's to audition and wondering if I missing a whole lot with using the RTI a3's. Has anyone owned both of these and can comment on whether my objective would justify the price increase of the LSI9's?
Ive also been eyeing some Paradigm studio 20's but the ones I see are 7+ years old. not sure if thats is something to avoid altogether

thanks

tonyb

The 9's are miles ahead of the rti3's imho. Keep in mind though, the 9's are 4 ohm and you'd have to add an amp.

angles

tonyb thanks for the input... forgot about the ohm difference. that would mean the hk 3550 would be running 75 at 8 ohm and 37.5 at 4 ohm? dam

nhhiep

no, if 75W at 8ohms, you will get close to 100 at 4 ohms, if your HK can handle 4 ohms. HK is a good brand. I bet that it can. it should be double according to the math.

comfortablycurt

The LSi9's are leaps and bounds better than the RTiA3's. The A3's are a fine sounding bookshelf, but the 9's are in a whole different league.

One thing to bear in mind though, is that the LSi9's are 4 ohms and thus are harder to drive. I'm not familiar with that HK, but make sure it's 4 ohm stable. Even if it is, I'd still recommend looking into an external amp to get the most out of them.

tonyb

The specs show your avr at 50 watts per channel continuous,and 55 watts per channel at 4 ohm....not nearly enough in my opinion. Didn't check to see if it has pre-outs or not which you'll need to add an amp. Maybe you should look at something easier to drive.

messiah

The specs show your avr at 75 watts per channel @ 8 ohms, and doesn't mention 4 ohms at all, which means it is not 4 ohm stable. It will probably work for a while, but eventually go into protection, and die.

leroyjr1

Sda's an option?

orrb_05

I've had LSi9 for fromts and rears and if you don't run at least 200w to them they will not give you what I think you are looking for - "RTIa3 upgrade to LSI9... worth the price increase?"

I ran them off my Yamaha RX-V3800 and it was as though there was something missing -like having a governor on a Mazarati. But when I switched to a Rotel Pre-pro and seperate power amp running 200w RMS they really came to life.

One more thing to note is that they will not be a bright sounding speaker, but thay are creamy and smooth with great midrange.

comfortablycurt

orrb_05 wrote: »

I've had LSi9 for fromts and rears and if you don't run at least 200w to them they will not give you what I think you are looking for - "RTIa3 upgrade to LSI9... worth the price increase?"

I ran them off my Yamaha RX-V3800 and it was as though there was something missing -like having a governor on a Mazarati. But when I switched to a Rotel Pre-pro and seperate power amp running 200w RMS they really came to life.

One more thing to note is that they will not be a bright sounding speaker, but thay are creamy and smooth with great midrange.

I'd be inclined to disagree somewhat. A fellow audio nerd friend of mine has a pair of LSi9's, and I've had them hooked up to my rig on several occasions. I've got an Adcom GFA-545, which is 100 wpc. It made those 9's absolutely sing...sounded wonderful. I could get all the volume that I'd ever realistically need out of them, without a hint of distortion and no real discernible loss in dynamics. It still had plenty of punch in the low end and handled big transient bursts with mucho authority. The previous owner of my amp also drove a pair of 9's with it, to great success.

Not to say that more wattage wouldn't be better...but I don't really go along with the "minimum 200wpc" recommendation that I see tossed around by so many people here. It's not the number of watts, but the quality of the watts that you're putting out. There are 50wpc integrated amps out there that would drive a pair of 9's with every bit as much authority as a 200wpc external amp.

If the specs posted above for your AVR are accurate, I'd be inclined to agree that it wouldn't really be capable of driving a pair of 9's. If it isn't 4 ohm stable, it won't make the cut. It will be able to drive them at low volumes, but if you turned it up it would really be squeezing your AVR through the wringer. Does your AVR have preouts? If so, you could find a decent amp in the $200-250 range that would drive a pair of 9's quite well. Adcom GFA-545's can be had in that price range very regularly.


edit-I see there's actually one for sale here in the FM currently. $225...

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108130

comfortablycurt

Whoops...too late to edit above post..


I see it's actually $200+shipping now. Not a bad price at all.

This is the MK2 version, which I've never personally heard. Many people say that the originals are slightly more refined sounding, but the MK2's are no slouches either.

Monster Jam

Certain HKs can drive 4 ohm speakers - those that are high current capable. My HK has been driving 4 LSi15s and an LSiC and has never gone into protect mode. That said, I know I can get better imaging and open up the soundstage with greater power, so a 5 or 7 channel 200 watt amp is on my wish list.

veerapaneni

I have had both of these speakers and Lsi9 are way better tham RtiA3

PSOVLSK

I agree that you need both 9's and an amp. The decision is just which to buy first...if you can't get them at the same time. I might be inclined to get an amp first because you would still notice a benefit even with the 3's. When your ready for another upgrade, pick up some 9's and get ready to be very impressed.

The Adcom that Curt referenced would be a good starting point. The 545 was my first step into seperates and I was very happy with it.

angles

thanks for the info folks....

not sure i can budget for another amp. how would Paradigm studio 20's be as an upgrade from the RTi A3's? and compared to the LSI9's?

cnh

Here's a question for you....? Is that HK 3550 an AVR or a 2 channel. Because unless it is a 2 channel it probably won't drive LSI-9s. HKs stereo receivers have 4 ohm capability...but the surround receivers don't target that.

Don't know the PS 20s so no comment there. I, courtesy of Polk, now own a pair of Rti-A3s and they are a fine speaker. But the LSI-9s are in another league as far a pure music is concerned. For HT the A3's do the job and they are OK with music too, but they are not LSI-9s.

cnh

tonyb

angles wrote: »

thanks for the info folks....

not sure i can budget for another amp. how would Paradigm studio 20's be as an upgrade from the RTi A3's? and compared to the LSI9's?

I would say the p-20's and the A3's are pretty close, a lateral move at best. Are you looking for a bookie or a floorstander ? Unless you upgrade the power,be it from an avr or adding an amp,your limited on your choices of speaks.

tonyb

Monster Jam wrote: »

Certain HKs can drive 4 ohm speakers - those that are high current capable. My HK has been driving 4 LSi15s and an LSiC and has never gone into protect mode. That said, I know I can get better imaging and open up the soundstage with greater power, so a 5 or 7 channel 200 watt amp is on my wish list.

5 lsi's off an avr....you do realize you do damage to the speaks by under powering them,right? Just because the receiver hasn't gone into protect mode yet doesn't mean your not doing a world of hurt on those speaks.

Monster Jam

Well, with all due respect, there hasn't been any issue at all between the HK and the receiver. Its driven these speakers since I've been a member here - over 4 years. And frankly, the specs on the HK measure favorably with lower end amps: +45 amp high current capability and 75 wpc @8 ohm all channels driven. I've seen older entry-level Parasound products that couldn't touch those ratings.

I'm not advocating NOT buying an amp; I plan to buy one myself. I am just debunking the wive's tale that you HAVE to have an amp to run these speakers. That simply is not the case. I'm also not claiming that ANY receiver can drive these speakers: I am saying CERTAIN HKs can drive them.

Just my 2 cents.

Monster Jam

...and yes, I'm well aware of the concerns that you raise, as evidenced by my signature!

angles

ok.. really set on the lsi9's for now.

whats the consensus on using an HK 3490 to run them? rated 150 @ 4ohms...

messiah

I wouldn't use that HK. I know it looks like a good price, but look at the total harmonic distortion. .07 @ 8ohms vs .20 at 4ohms. Maximum THD on the adcom at 4ohms is .025 . That's a pretty big difference.

As far as the Paradigms, I'd say they are a step up from the RtiA3, but a step down from the Lsi9.

PSOVLSK

The Adcom Curt referenced is about the same price as the H/K 3490 isn't it?

I ran a pair of 9's with an H/K 7300 with no problems and it sounded very good. BUT, the 7300 was H/K's flagship AVR and it did get hot when driving the 9's. That is the very reason I added an external amp.

IMO, the H/K, Adcom, LSi combo sounds very good.

angles

ok folks hit a stumbling block. looks like the lsi9 are out of the picture due to 2 things:
WAF factor- Only available in Ebony and our furniture is black. Saw a real pic of the ebony and doesn't match.
Ohm factor- not able to increase budget to include a separate 2ch amp at this time

Are there any bookshelf's that can come close to lsi9's in the 8ohm world?

Really would like a dual speaker cabinet if possible but leaning towards the paradigms studio 20's v5 right now. BUT, as an alternative to the RTIa3 though, how does the Paradigm Titan v6 compare for music?

thanks!

DeadFeat1

I had the opportunity, several months ago, to audition the RTIa3 with other bookshelf speakers including B&W, Thiel and Quad with a Rotel integrated amp and CD player. I'm not going to say they were the "best", but they held their own against all of the other speakers. Honestly, at the cost they can't be beat. You will have to spend a lot of money to get far superior sound. I have a pair of the RTIa1 in my second system and love them. Just my two cents...

rooftop59

What about the lsi7s? Cheaper, and if you're patient you can probably find cherry. Plus, I drive mine with an HK that is 75 wpc, 90 in stereo, and they sound really good (although I know that they will sound better with an external amp and that is on the upgrade list). Some people here actually prefer the 7s over the 9s, but I haven't heard the 9s so I can't comment on that. Just a thought...
Peace,
Paul

Erik Tracy

rooftop59 wrote: »

What about the lsi7s? Cheaper, and if you're patient you can probably find cherry. Plus, I drive mine with an HK that is 75 wpc, 90 in stereo, and they sound really good (although I know that they will sound better with an external amp and that is on the upgrade list). Some people here actually prefer the 7s over the 9s, but I haven't heard the 9s so I can't comment on that. Just a thought...
Peace,
Paul

Paul,
I used to own both RTiA3s and the LSi7s - at the same time and was able to do a comparison in my rig.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74395
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74872

I'm probably one of two or three people on the planet that preferred the RTiA3 over the LSi7. Alot has to do with personal preference and system synergy - so all opinions should be taken with a grain of salt...or two...:biggrin:

angles

Erik, Paul, Deadfeat1 -

thanks for the recent advice. it all helps especially when there is no local place in my area that can audition lsi's or paradigms.

guess im back to square one now - im not dissatisfied with the rtia3 at all. They serve its purpose now and seem ok. Prior to owning these, it was the klipsch pro medias and yamaha ns10s. Now I have the ever growing question in the back of my mind of "wonder how much better it will sound on vendor x/model x".

I did have a chance to audition some dynaudio's locally (forget the model, need to call back and find out) but it was a fairly compact bookshelf, little smaller than the RTi A3, with a 6". Midrange seemed pretty good which is what Im after. Cost was $800 out the door...

Erik Tracy

angles wrote: »

Erik, Paul, Deadfeat1 -

thanks for the recent advice. it all helps especially when there is no local place in my area that can audition lsi's or paradigms.

guess im back to square one now - im not dissatisfied with the rtia3 at all. They serve its purpose now and seem ok. Prior to owning these, it was the klipsch pro medias and yamaha ns10s. Now I have the ever growing question in the back of my mind of "wonder how much better it will sound on vendor x/model x".

I did have a chance to audition some dynaudio's locally (forget the model, need to call back and find out) but it was a fairly compact bookshelf, little smaller than the RTi A3, with a 6". Midrange seemed pretty good which is what Im after. Cost was $800 out the door...

I can relate to where you are...not dissatisfied, but still 'questing' eh? :biggrin:

You won't know unless you listen to other speakers and then decide if that is the next step up for what you are looking for.

Are the RTiA3s the get all for a bookshelf? Of course not - but you do have to decide how much you want to spend for that next step.

I would think that for a good step up (and not so much lateral), you are going to have to pony up for new speakers.

But don't forget to scour the used market as well - lots of good values out there which may get you to your next step and not spend alot of coin.

Gadabout

In your quest and consideration about the LSi7's....

I had a pair of the LSi9's that a buddy loaned me while he was away overseas. I really liked the sound of them. When I returned them to him, I went looking for a good price on the 9's - used.

Before I could find a pair of the 9's, I found a great deal on some LSi7's. The deal was too good to pass up so I grabbed them. Comparing the 7's to the 9's, I found the 7's to lack the over all presence of the 9's and definitely was missing some on the lower end.

The solution was that I kept the 7's and added a small 8" sub to the system (Paradigm PDR-8) and got something that I am happy with for sound. Both the sub and the LSi7's were bought used out of the flea market for about $450.

You should also note that I'm driving these with an external amp and this set up is used in the bedroom. It does fill the space with sound, but I find that I'm usually listening at lower volumes in the bedroom than in the front room or 2ch room.

While my post might muddy your decision process, I would say that the quest is almost as important as finding that great sound. It sounds like you have the upgrade bug that most of us have around here. Don't be afraid to experiment a bit. Perhaps there is a local polkie that has 9's or 7's that you could demo and see what you think might sound best.