Testing the drivers on 2.3

erniejade

I have a set of 2.3 and 1.2's.

I will be selling a set soon but I am not sure on what one's to keep. I have been listening to the 1.2's for the last 3 months and I put the 2.3 back into the system and took the 1.2's out. The first thing i noticed was the 2.3 do not sound as tubby sounding as the 1.2's in my system but at the same time, the bass seemed to disapear as well.

They are in the exact same spot as the 1.2's were. Same amp, wires, everything. ( sunfire sig II 625 X2, audio quest crystal , bens IC's and bens IC for the polks, Jolida cdp)

Now I figure since they are close in family they should have close to the same bass but, it really disapeared. no more in the bottom end. At the same time though, the 2.3 seemed to have a smoother sound just with a lack of bass.

Besides putting your ear up to each driver, without a volt meeter, what can i do to test the drivers in the 2.3? All the drivers are moving when bass hits but, because they move in a sealed system does not mean they work.

What I am going to be doing, sell one set and put the $ that they sell for into RDO / corssover upgrade. For right now, the 1.2's are in the lead but as I stated, the 2.3 do sound a bit smoother but the bass is no where near the 1.2.

The other thing I have not done was change the location of the 2.3. I thought by putting them where the 1.2's are, that would make the most sense since the setup on both are or should be the same.


Thanks for the advice and the help.

Schurkey

Not only do you need to verify that the drivers WORK, you need to verify that they're connected in proper phase. For that matter, you need to assure that the speakers are connected with the polarity correct. I recall someone on this forum claiming that their SRS was wired improperly from the factory, and it took a long time for him to discover the wiring problem.

Pull each driver out of the cabinet one at a time, play music at moderate volume level, and verify that each driver vibrates in your hand with the wires connected, and DOESN'T vibrate in your hand when one wire is removed. Of course, the SDA drivers will only be active when the program material isn't monophonic; depending on the music you select, they could be VERY active...or not.)

Then you need to verify that the wires are connected to the proper terminals on the speaker--the + wire to the + post, the - wire to the (usually unmarked) - post.

I suppose you'd also want to assure that the crossover is connected to the binding posts in proper polarity, too.

The schematics on this site should help.

vmaxer

connect a battery to the inputs and see if they all move. If you reverse the connection they will move the opposite way. I think I used a D battery to test my 1.2TL's.

thejck

remove the crossover plate of the passive, that will reduce the pressure in the cabinet. Now when you drive the speakers the driver movements should be on their own and not because of air pressure.

erniejade

Thanks all for the advice. I will check it out this weekend. I relaly thought the bass would be close but I can say they is definately a difference in sound on my 1.2 and 2.3 for sure.

flason

My 2.3 do not lack any bass. No real need for a sub. Things shake off the walls already. Definately check them out. Good luck.

zarrdoss

When I got my 2.3's I tested them with a charge and the drivers went all different ways and had no bass. after I re-wired them correctly they had a ton of bass, you might also check for air leaks as well, (loose screws, etc)

jim 249

Hi Zardoss; You mention test with a charge. Is that with a battery? That won't hurt the voice coils?

Earthy

I too am curious about the charge you mention zardoss. I see above that vmaxer may have used a D cell. Do we have a consensus on what voltage and amperage would be safe to use?

Schurkey

Earthy wrote: »

I see above that vmaxer may have used a D cell. Do we have a consensus on what voltage and amperage would be safe to use?

In this case, amperage will be determined by the DC resistance of the load.

I have every expectation that you could do no damage with a quick test using a typical 12-volt battery (actual ~13 volts) although it's more common to use a 9V or single cell.

A single cell (single AA, single C, single D, etc.) is likely to be about 1.5 volts open-circuit; perhaps less when loaded. 1.5 volts into a 6 ohm load results in .25 amps and .375 watts.

By comparison, a "200 watt" amp at rated output delivers 35 volts and 6 amps into a 6-ohm loudspeaker. Of course that would be delivered to the speakers as AC instead of DC.

vmaxer

Earthy wrote: »

I too am curious about the charge you mention zardoss. I see above that vmaxer may have used a D cell. Do we have a consensus on what voltage and amperage would be safe to use?

I'm not sure it matters a lot, but I had the D cell and a battery holder for it and it was a simple test. All of my drivers were going in the same direction...and all were working. I tested both ways, one way they go out and reverse the wires and they all went in.

Earthy

I'll try a D cell just for grins. Thanks for clarifying!

erniejade

I have both 9v and D's at home. I will give it a shot. I hope one or two of the drivers are out of phase. Like i said before, i didn't thnk the bass would be that big of a difference on the 2 units at normal volume, same amp and same placement. Otherwsie if they are in phase and i see them all move after i remove the PR or plate, I will try location. right now I have them 8 feet from the corner, 8" from the wall ( i cant get them any closer to the wall due to a pipe behind them) 8 feet appart.

zarrdoss

yes I used a 1.5 c battery, more voltage just moves them further so don't know why you would need more than 1.5v

erniejade

Thanks for the tip I will try it out this weekend. It looks like a few of us will try it out the weekend LOL

Earthy

I too will be one of the ones giving it a try. It will be interesting to see if any move in the opposite direction. In my case, I doubt it since they sound soooo good.

dbaldus

vmaxer wrote: »

connect a battery to the inputs and see if they all move. If you reverse the connection they will move the opposite way. I think I used a D battery to test my 1.2TL's.

Pardon my ignorance, but do you mean to run a wire from one end of a battery to the + terminal/binding post on the back of the speaker and another wire from the opposite end of the battery to the - terminal/binding post of the speaker?

Just want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly before I plug a battery into my speakers

Audioquest

dbaldus wrote: »

Pardon my ignorance, but do you mean to run a wire from one end of a battery to the + terminal/binding post on the back of the speaker and another wire from the opposite end of the battery to the - terminal/binding post of the speaker?

Just want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly before I plug a battery into my speakers

Using a battery does work. I'd use a 1.5V AA, C or D. Connect wires to the speaker then touch the terminals on the battery. You should hear a "click" as well as see the cone move (if it's not a tweeter). Don't connect the wires to the battery, just touch them a couple of times to see if it is ok. I usually use a multimeter set on the 200 ohm range. If the speaker is shot there will not be any reading if it is open circuit (VC wire open) or it will go super low or zero if it is burned/shorted. Static a good speaker will read close to 4 or 8 ohms depending on what it is rated.

dbaldus

Audioquest wrote: »

Using a battery does work. I'd use a 1.5V AA, C or D. Connect wires to the speaker then touch the terminals on the battery. You should hear a "click" as well as see the cone move (if it's not a tweeter). Don't connect the wires to the battery, just touch them a couple of times to see if it is ok. I usually use a multimeter set on the 200 ohm range. If the speaker is shot there will not be any reading if it is open circuit (VC wire open) or it will go super low or zero if it is burned/shorted. Static a good speaker will read close to 4 or 8 ohms depending on what it is rated.

I'm confused... how is this going to determine if the speaker's internal wiring is causing the speakers to be out of phase?

If you just hook up a speaker to a battery directly and you always do it the same way, won't it always move the same way?

It seems that you're just showing how to test if a speaker is dead or not, but what we're talking about here is whether all speakers are wired in proper phase. Or am I missing something here?

vmaxer

dbaldus wrote: »

I'm confused... how is this going to determine if the speaker's internal wiring is causing the speakers to be out of phase?

If you just hook up a speaker to a battery directly and you always do it the same way, won't it always move the same way?

It seems that you're just showing how to test if a speaker is dead or not, but what we're talking about here is whether all speakers are wired in proper phase. Or am I missing something here?

This will tell you if you have any bad drivers, if 3 out of 4 move, one is bad....

Or on the big boys, if 7 of 8 move there is one bad.

Also if they don't all move in the same direction, you have wiring issues.

dbaldus

vmaxer wrote: »

This will tell you if you have any bad drivers, if 3 out of 4 move, one is bad....

Or on the big boys, if 7 of 8 move there is one bad.

Also if they don't all move in the same direction, you have wiring issues.

I understand that testing them by pulling each driver out separately and running wires between the battery and the separate speaker terminals will show if a speaker is dead or not. What I don't understand is how this test will show if they are wired in phase or not because you are pulling each driver out separately, therefore completely bypassing any internal wiring of the speakers.

So, if this is the step by step for determining if you have a bad driver:

1. Unhook each driver from the internal wiring and set it on a table
2. Run a wire from the + terminal of the speaker to the + terminal of the battery
3. Run a wire from the - terminal of the speaker and touch the wire to the - terminal of the battery
4. If the driver moves, it is working properly

What is the step by step for determining if the speakers are wired out of phase from each other in the cabinet?

I apologize if it seems that I'm trying to be difficult, but I'm just not seeing how the above 4 steps determine if your speakers are out of phase. Maybe I'm overlooking something obvious?

Thanks again!

jim 249

The way I read this is that by hooking up the battery to the binding posts, all the drivers should move out or in at the same time. If some move out and some move in than there is a wiring issue inside. My 2.3tl's have 6 drivers, if say 3 move out and 3 move in with a battery test there is a wiring problem inside. Right?

zarrdoss

jim 249 wrote: »

The way I read this is that by hooking up the battery to the binding posts, all the drivers should move out or in at the same time. If some move out and some move in than there is a wiring issue inside. My 2.3tl's have 6 drivers, if say 3 move out and 3 move in with a battery test there is a wiring problem inside. Right?

right

vmaxer

jim 249 wrote: »

The way I read this is that by hooking up the battery to the binding posts, all the drivers should move out or in at the same time. If some move out and some move in than there is a wiring issue inside. My 2.3tl's have 6 drivers, if say 3 move out and 3 move in with a battery test there is a wiring problem inside. Right?

That would be a BINGO.

erniejade

I tried it with a D battery. All the drives did go in the same direction. Shoot in a way i was hoping that was it. For the heck of it, i tried it on the 1.2's also and they all went in the same direction also.


Ok i am going to play with placement next. Again i just figured because the speakers are the same family, the placement could be the same but, I might be wrong!!!

I will keep everyone posted and thanks again for the help!!

erniejade

My room is the basement. It is 24 x 24. I had the 1.2 in the center of the room 8 feet between them. I would actually go between 7-8 feet ( i moved them a lot. ) Now doing that with the 2.3 did not make too much of a difference. What did make a huge difference, i moved it all to the left of the room so the left speaker was 3' from the wall and 8" from the back. the right speaker, about 13-14 feet from the right side of the room and again 8" from the back wall. The bass is back and its huge. I am listening about 9-11 feet away ( keep going between that distance) to see where the best sweet sopt is. The rest of the room though is not so great like it is with the 1.2's. With the 1.2's my sweet spot is 10 feet back in the center but, i can walk around the room and it sounds great no matter where I am standing. With the 2.3 where they are now placed ( non tl) once i am out of the sweet spot, the sound drops sharply but, i kind of expected that. I tried listening also to the 2.3 about 15 feet back and talk about a ton of bass wayyyy too much lol

I will keep playing with the placement but I wanted to let everyone know what I am finding out so far.

Schurkey

erniejade wrote: »

My room is the basement. It is 24 x 24.

Let me guess: 8' ceiling???

The 24 X 24 is bad for standing waves no matter what the ceiling height...but an 8' ceiling would reinforce it even more--the "perfect storm" of standing waves.

schwarcw

jim 249 wrote: »

The way I read this is that by hooking up the battery to the binding posts, all the drivers should move out or in at the same time. If some move out and some move in than there is a wiring issue inside. My 2.3tl's have 6 drivers, if say 3 move out and 3 move in with a battery test there is a wiring problem inside. Right?

I think the SDA drivers should move opposite the stereo drivers as these were meant to be 180 degrees out of phase for the SDA effect to work. No? Yes?

zarrdoss

schwarcw wrote: »

I think the SDA drivers should move opposite the stereo drivers as these were meant to be 180 degrees out of phase for the SDA effect to work. No? Yes?

no, must all be in the same phase. The SDA effect just works by means of a different signal canceling crosstalk.

FTGV

zarrdoss wrote: »

must all be in the same phase.

Correct they are wired in phase,but they recieve and reproduce the R-L L-R signal which is out of phase.

schwarcw

FTGV wrote: »

Correct they are wired in phase,but they recieve and reproduce the R-L L-R signal which is out of phase.

Please explain that "R-L L-R signal which is out of phase" how is that done if the speaker itself is not generating the signal by being out of phase. I don't understand how it can be both ways???