Upgraditus (past to present)
EndersShadow
Posts: 17,590
So I am going to start a thread that is going to slowly drive me insanse...my car audio upgrade thread.
Let me give you some background on my journey. It started in 1999 with a 84" Honda Civic DX stick shift I purchased with 114k on it for 1400 dollars. The car was silver, had NO AC, Cruise, Power Windows. Hell, it didn’t even have power steering (unless the clutch was engaged) or AIRBAGS! I initially purchased just a set of 6.5 JBL fronts to replace the stock ones in the car. I then purchased another set of 6.5's for the rear deck (I want to say Jensen) from Walmart at some point.
College came around and in about 2001 a buddy was selling a 200 watt Jensen amp (I cringe when I think about it) along with 2 10" subs in a sealed bandpass box (not sure brand). The plexiglass was cracked but a quick trip to Loews and I had a custom cut replacement piece. A cheap wiring kit later and I was rolling.
Then in late 2003 I had a friend who worked at HH Gregg for a while sell me his entire system so he could upgrade. The cost was 700 dollars with free install help from him. My cash purchased a 5 channel amp along with a 10" MTX sub in a truck box (which I still have to this day
) a 15" MTX sub and some Infinity Kappa component speakers. The amp was a Power Precision amp (PPI) and was really friggin nice. After purchasing everything we realized the Infinity speakers were to big to fit in either the doors (would have stuck out of the door ) or the rear (interfered with the trunk brackets. After even more wiring, we realized the tweeters wouldn’t work either….So we just wired the 4 speakers I had to it along with the 10” and called it a day. It was a MASSIVE improvement over my original gear (which I sold to someone I think…).
Then later I decided that I wanted to put the 15” in, so I had a box built by a local shop and was even more happy. Another 75 bucks was spent on dynamat for my trunk (which I only did the trunk lid and not the entire trunk (cant think of why I didn’t, musta just been stupidity).
2 years later while jamming to some Evergrey (Recreation Day to be exact) I blew my speakers. I replaced them and still no sound…turned out I ended up blowing my 5 channel amp. As a total aside, I had 2 freinds meet them in person and hang out and when they mentioned that I blew my super expensive amp with their record one of them (forget who offhand) said "Thats the best review we have ever gotten for a CD". Unfortunately I missed that concert as I was in the hospital with a failing liver, mono and a temp of 106 
. For the next year I deal with just factory stereo and it killed me inside……
Then in 2006 I got a new job and a new used car. Dropped 6k on a 2000 Jetta GL stick shift with 106k on it. The Honda (22 years old) at that point was up to 198k and was all kinds of different colors from accidents. With the Jetta, in addition to a factory 5 CD changer in the trunk, I got awesome upgrades like power locks, air conditioning & airbags!
After doing some research I decided to upgrade my entire car at once. First step was the installation of a new headunit. After much searching I settled on a Kenwood MP-438U. It had Ipod capatibility, worked with USB drives and had an Auxilary port as well.
Then I waited till Crutchfield had a buy one get one ½ off on Polk gear (December of 2007) and purchased a 2 sets of Polk db6501 components. I then purchased a MTX Thunder Elite 404 amplifier to drive them (in retrospect I should have looked at the spec’s more). I found a 36 square foot dynamat kit for 106 dollars and purchased 2 of them to use for all 4 doors and then 2 layers on the entire trunk.
May 2008 came and I had a shop in town install the components, dynamat all 4 doors, and run the wires for both amps (only had one at this point). They used 4 gauge wire for the power and then split it into 2 8 gauge runs (one for each amp). They only ran one power wire to start (since I only had 1 amp). They mounted the crossovers in the rear of the trunk (one where the CD changer used to be, the other on the opposite side). Looked real clean. We also went with a stealth look so there were no additional holes cut (specifically in the tweeter location). We were just barely able to mount them without doing it, but it worked! That install took about 6 hours give or take.
I went on vacation and purchased my friends old JL Slash 250/1 amp for use with a sub. Then in July of that year I had 3 paychecks and was in bad need of some major BAASSS! After talking to the local shop I purchased a dual 4ohm Treo TE subwoofer from them in a ported ProSub box in . Dang thing is sprayed with Rhinoliner on the exterior (makes it look real nice. At that point I had them dynamat the entire trunk (expect for under the rear deck, which was a stupid call I now have to fix) with 2 layers of Dynamat Extreme. This install took about another 6 hours due to my trunk stuff being fussy when we tried to put it back in.
And that is my journey until now. Now is where the fun begins again anew though. After learning much more about ohms, power, ect. I realized my speakers need more than the power I am currently giving them. I have the volume all the way up and still want more. I am mainly listening to Trance/Techno/House music so I want my car to feel and get as loud as a club (until the wife rides with me, then its quiet as a mouse ). The speakers can handle a 125 watt continuous load and a max of 300 watts per speaker. I am currently feeding them a max of 65 watts RMS and its just not enough. The Treo TE sub can handle 500 watts RMS max and its only getting 250.
So it is upgrade planning time.
I am not upgrading the speakers at this time because they work fine for my purposes. I am still debating doing an HeadUnit upgrade. I have been reading up on the Kenwood KDC-X794 (~200) as well as the KIN-700 (~300). As I have a Zune HD the KIN-700 is of the most interest. There are not many reviews on it yet and I have heard of issues with it loading the Zune songs very slow. On the other hand the X794 doesn’t offer too much more than my current MP438U besides Time Alignment (jury still out on that for me), support for Kenwood Music Editor Lite (easy way to port music from Windows Media Player or ITunes to a flash drive), additional EQ options and a different color scheme. But it is at an additional 200 dollar cost that I wasn’t expecting. In addition I am not sure if I need the DSP options it offers just yet. I might see enough of an improvement with the new front/rear amp. So for now the focus is going to be on amps, and hopefully more firmware upgrades will fix the KIN-700 issue or another Zune compatible player will come on the market. Either way I am going to stick with what I have for now.
After doing my research I have come to the following choices for my amps: a Sundown SAX-100.4D for my fronts/rears. This amp puts out 100 watts x4 @ 10 volts w/ a 4 ohm load so it is under rated which is fine with me. The sub amp is going to be a Sundown SAX-1200D which will give 720 watts x 1 @ 10 volts w/ a 2 ohm load. It can give 1200 watts x 1 @ 1 ohm.
Adding these amps also requires the following changes: I need to re-wire my power and ground from 4 gauge to 0/1 gauge wire. I need to upgrade my alternator from a 90 amp to 120 amp one to handle the extra load. I may need to do a Big 3 upgrade using 0/1 gauge (jury still out on that one). With these amps (specifically the 1200D) I will be able to run all my gear both now and in the future. The 1200D will eventually drive 2 10” Treo TE subs with each getting around 500 (gain turned down since it technically can give 750 to each).
The plan is to start with the 100.4D amp and upgrading the wiring. This amp will make the most sound difference for me since it has many many more tuning options for my speakers as well as more power. I plan to add some additional Dynamat myself to the rear deck, both the top of the actual metal panel as well as the covering piece. The reason is that I want you to see the black underside of the Dynamat Extreme when you look up from the trunk rather than the gleaming aluminum side. Hopefully this helps eliminate some of the rattle I hear. This part will hopefully take place in late December of this year, if not before.
After that I plan to purchase a 120 amp alternator from a local parts store (provided mine is a 90 amp or lower) and upgrade the alternator (if labor isnt super insane). At the same time potentially do the “Big 3” upgrade at the same time (since they have to disconnect everything to install the alternator anyway). Then the next step would be purchasing the 1200D amp which will take place around May when I get my bonus. From there potentially I will upgrade the Headunit, but I am not sure just yet.
I hope to update this thread as I add new parts or run into new snags along the way. Any comments/suggestions are more than welcome as I might be missing something very important
Let me give you some background on my journey. It started in 1999 with a 84" Honda Civic DX stick shift I purchased with 114k on it for 1400 dollars. The car was silver, had NO AC, Cruise, Power Windows. Hell, it didn’t even have power steering (unless the clutch was engaged) or AIRBAGS! I initially purchased just a set of 6.5 JBL fronts to replace the stock ones in the car. I then purchased another set of 6.5's for the rear deck (I want to say Jensen) from Walmart at some point.
College came around and in about 2001 a buddy was selling a 200 watt Jensen amp (I cringe when I think about it) along with 2 10" subs in a sealed bandpass box (not sure brand). The plexiglass was cracked but a quick trip to Loews and I had a custom cut replacement piece. A cheap wiring kit later and I was rolling.
Then in late 2003 I had a friend who worked at HH Gregg for a while sell me his entire system so he could upgrade. The cost was 700 dollars with free install help from him. My cash purchased a 5 channel amp along with a 10" MTX sub in a truck box (which I still have to this day
) a 15" MTX sub and some Infinity Kappa component speakers. The amp was a Power Precision amp (PPI) and was really friggin nice. After purchasing everything we realized the Infinity speakers were to big to fit in either the doors (would have stuck out of the door ) or the rear (interfered with the trunk brackets. After even more wiring, we realized the tweeters wouldn’t work either….So we just wired the 4 speakers I had to it along with the 10” and called it a day. It was a MASSIVE improvement over my original gear (which I sold to someone I think…).Then later I decided that I wanted to put the 15” in, so I had a box built by a local shop and was even more happy. Another 75 bucks was spent on dynamat for my trunk (which I only did the trunk lid and not the entire trunk (cant think of why I didn’t, musta just been stupidity).
2 years later while jamming to some Evergrey (Recreation Day to be exact) I blew my speakers. I replaced them and still no sound…turned out I ended up blowing my 5 channel amp
. As a total aside, I had 2 freinds meet them in person and hang out and when they mentioned that I blew my super expensive amp with their record one of them (forget who offhand) said "Thats the best review we have ever gotten for a CD". Unfortunately I missed that concert as I was in the hospital with a failing liver, mono and a temp of 106 . For the next year I deal with just factory stereo and it killed me inside……Then in 2006 I got a new job and a new used car. Dropped 6k on a 2000 Jetta GL stick shift with 106k on it. The Honda (22 years old) at that point was up to 198k and was all kinds of different colors from accidents. With the Jetta, in addition to a factory 5 CD changer in the trunk, I got awesome upgrades like power locks, air conditioning & airbags!
After doing some research I decided to upgrade my entire car at once. First step was the installation of a new headunit. After much searching I settled on a Kenwood MP-438U. It had Ipod capatibility, worked with USB drives and had an Auxilary port as well.
Then I waited till Crutchfield had a buy one get one ½ off on Polk gear (December of 2007) and purchased a 2 sets of Polk db6501 components. I then purchased a MTX Thunder Elite 404 amplifier to drive them (in retrospect I should have looked at the spec’s more). I found a 36 square foot dynamat kit for 106 dollars and purchased 2 of them to use for all 4 doors and then 2 layers on the entire trunk.
May 2008 came and I had a shop in town install the components, dynamat all 4 doors, and run the wires for both amps (only had one at this point). They used 4 gauge wire for the power and then split it into 2 8 gauge runs (one for each amp). They only ran one power wire to start (since I only had 1 amp). They mounted the crossovers in the rear of the trunk (one where the CD changer used to be, the other on the opposite side). Looked real clean. We also went with a stealth look so there were no additional holes cut (specifically in the tweeter location). We were just barely able to mount them without doing it, but it worked! That install took about 6 hours give or take.
I went on vacation and purchased my friends old JL Slash 250/1 amp for use with a sub. Then in July of that year I had 3 paychecks and was in bad need of some major BAASSS! After talking to the local shop I purchased a dual 4ohm Treo TE subwoofer from them in a ported ProSub box in . Dang thing is sprayed with Rhinoliner on the exterior (makes it look real nice
. At that point I had them dynamat the entire trunk (expect for under the rear deck, which was a stupid call I now have to fix) with 2 layers of Dynamat Extreme. This install took about another 6 hours due to my trunk stuff being fussy when we tried to put it back in.And that is my journey until now. Now is where the fun begins again anew though
. After learning much more about ohms, power, ect. I realized my speakers need more than the power I am currently giving them. I have the volume all the way up and still want more. I am mainly listening to Trance/Techno/House music so I want my car to feel and get as loud as a club (until the wife rides with me, then its quiet as a mouse ). The speakers can handle a 125 watt continuous load and a max of 300 watts per speaker. I am currently feeding them a max of 65 watts RMS and its just not enough. The Treo TE sub can handle 500 watts RMS max and its only getting 250.So it is upgrade planning time.
I am not upgrading the speakers at this time because they work fine for my purposes. I am still debating doing an HeadUnit upgrade. I have been reading up on the Kenwood KDC-X794 (~200) as well as the KIN-700 (~300). As I have a Zune HD the KIN-700 is of the most interest. There are not many reviews on it yet and I have heard of issues with it loading the Zune songs very slow. On the other hand the X794 doesn’t offer too much more than my current MP438U besides Time Alignment (jury still out on that for me), support for Kenwood Music Editor Lite (easy way to port music from Windows Media Player or ITunes to a flash drive), additional EQ options and a different color scheme. But it is at an additional 200 dollar cost that I wasn’t expecting. In addition I am not sure if I need the DSP options it offers just yet. I might see enough of an improvement with the new front/rear amp. So for now the focus is going to be on amps, and hopefully more firmware upgrades will fix the KIN-700 issue or another Zune compatible player will come on the market. Either way I am going to stick with what I have for now.
After doing my research I have come to the following choices for my amps: a Sundown SAX-100.4D for my fronts/rears. This amp puts out 100 watts x4 @ 10 volts w/ a 4 ohm load so it is under rated which is fine with me. The sub amp is going to be a Sundown SAX-1200D which will give 720 watts x 1 @ 10 volts w/ a 2 ohm load. It can give 1200 watts x 1 @ 1 ohm.
Adding these amps also requires the following changes: I need to re-wire my power and ground from 4 gauge to 0/1 gauge wire. I need to upgrade my alternator from a 90 amp to 120 amp one to handle the extra load. I may need to do a Big 3 upgrade using 0/1 gauge (jury still out on that one). With these amps (specifically the 1200D) I will be able to run all my gear both now and in the future. The 1200D will eventually drive 2 10” Treo TE subs with each getting around 500 (gain turned down since it technically can give 750 to each).
The plan is to start with the 100.4D amp and upgrading the wiring. This amp will make the most sound difference for me since it has many many more tuning options for my speakers as well as more power. I plan to add some additional Dynamat myself to the rear deck, both the top of the actual metal panel as well as the covering piece. The reason is that I want you to see the black underside of the Dynamat Extreme when you look up from the trunk rather than the gleaming aluminum side. Hopefully this helps eliminate some of the rattle I hear. This part will hopefully take place in late December of this year, if not before.
After that I plan to purchase a 120 amp alternator from a local parts store (provided mine is a 90 amp or lower) and upgrade the alternator (if labor isnt super insane). At the same time potentially do the “Big 3” upgrade at the same time (since they have to disconnect everything to install the alternator anyway). Then the next step would be purchasing the 1200D amp which will take place around May when I get my bonus. From there potentially I will upgrade the Headunit, but I am not sure just yet.
I hope to update this thread as I add new parts or run into new snags along the way. Any comments/suggestions are more than welcome as I might be missing something very important
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
Post edited by EndersShadow on
Comments
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It's funny to look back on that stuff. I had a long journey as well.
The difference is now I look back at all I had to go through, and I can just buy the best instead of going through it all again!Main Surround -
Epson 8350 Projector/ Elite Screens 120" / Pioneer Elite SC-35 / Sunfire Signature / Focal Chorus 716s / Focal Chorus CC / Polk MC80 / Polk PSW150 sub
Bedroom - Sharp Aquos 70" 650 / Pioneer SC-1222k / Polk RT-55 / Polk CS-250
Den - Rotel RSP-1068 / Threshold CAS-2 / Boston VR-M60 / BDP-05FD -
Pfft! Lightweight! :eek:
Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
I love the way he goes 'noooooo' at about 1:03.......
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OO_Fc-OT1Pg?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OO_Fc-OT1Pg?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object> -
You forgot that the KIV and K794 offers 4volt pre-outs as opposed to 2.5 on your current HU.
You upgrade, you think you like it, then you upgrade again! I'm doing that alot right now with my car (audio+performance). It doesn't end Truck setup
Alpine 9856
Phoenix Gold RSD65CS
For Sale
Polk SR6500
Polk SR5250
Polk SR104Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec. -
It's funny to look back on that stuff. I had a long journey as well.
The difference is now I look back at all I had to go through, and I can just buy the best instead of going through it all again!
True, but as I have learned you need to be able to figure out where to go to find the best, and also ensure the advice your getting is of the right kind. If you have the wrong sources you can think you have the best, but we very very wrong (i.e. Best Buy installers and the like)Pfft! Lightweight! :eek:
LOL. I figure 2 1 ohm stable amps should power just about anything I need....
and to quote the Italian Job "They are speakers so loud they blow women's clothes off". That might be where I end up going lol....You forgot that the KIV and K794 offers 4volt pre-outs as opposed to 2.5 on your current HU.
I didnt even think to check that spec. What kind of sound difference will a stronger signal make? Less degradation, more SPL?You upgrade, you think you like it, then you upgrade again! I'm doing that alot right now with my car (audio+performance). It doesn't end
True, but eventually you hit the point of diminishing returns....when I start to get them I am going to stop.... i.e. after these amps and dual subs I am done with things for a couple years at least....then when I get my new car I can work on getting 2 ohm speakers so I can pull more power out of the amps.
@kawizx9r: Also dont forget to let me know if that KIV firmware upgrade helps with your cousins setup. I am most interested in that particular HU right now....."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
EndersShadow wrote: »@kawizx9r: Also dont forget to let me know if that KIV firmware upgrade helps with your cousins setup. I am most interested in that particular HU right now.....
I'll give you a headsup, in fact I'll text him now Truck setup
Alpine 9856
Phoenix Gold RSD65CS
For Sale
Polk SR6500
Polk SR5250
Polk SR104Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec. -
Writing that post got me thinking....and perhaps I might upgrade the HU first. I have a local Best Buy w/ the KIV-900 so I am going to make some time to go play w/ it with my Zune there and see what load times are like.
Unfortunately I cant find anywhere locally that has the X794, so I wont be able to actually play with it myself, but will have to watch YouTube videos and read reviews instead. The main difference's have been noted above.
I am just wondering how much of a PITA the Kenwood software is. If its not to much of a PITA to port from my current stuff (not sure how accurate my ID3 tags are) I might just go with a USB drive and use the Zune via the Auxilary port. Lots of back and forth on this decision.
But its the cheapest overall upgrade and might help overcome some of the inadequacies of my current MTX amp."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Emailed Kenwood to see if the wiring harnesses are standard between their units. Basically its me asking if I can just take old my old HeadUnit and drop in the X794. It would make it easier to install the new unit and also to sell my old unit since I can easily prove the it works....."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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Also going to add Dynamat to the front of my car. Going to purchase either the Xtreme Trunk kit or the Xtreme Bulk Pack and use it to double layer the top of the rear deck and then the driver and passenger side floors of the car, and if I have any left over the rear passengers (but doubt I will have enough). Hopefully I can get it back far enough on the firewall.
For anyone looking for Dynamat this place has it the cheapest I have ever found: http://www.caraudiodeals.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=dynamat&search_in_description=1
Looked through my Hayes teardown manual for my VW last night and it looks like I might be able to install the new alternator myself as well as upgrade the wiring and add a new serpentine belt all @ the same time since they are all connected. Want to purchase just enough wire do to the big 3 and leave the rest for later. Autozone's site lists the replacement negative and positive as 15 inches and the wire to the starter @ 25" (link here), does that sound about right and should I add a couple inches to each measurement to give myself some slack to route it diff since its such a heavier gauge? Also anyone have a better place to buy 0/1 gauge wire? Crutchfield will run me 50 bucks for 7 feet of the stuff, and that doesnt count connectors either. If I do the JL Audio MetaWire (so I can differentiate the positive from negative on the battery it will be ~65.
Will probably enlist the help of my father in law for the install since he's got the tools and knowhow to do most of this.
I do need to contact VW though to find out if I will need to reprogram stuff after I disconnect the alternator and battery. The manual seemed to indicate it might reset some of the computer stuff I need for the car to run right. I definitely want to check that out before messing w/ stuff :eek:."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Found a decent deal on some 2 gauge wire. Thinking I am gonna save some cash and go with it rather than 0/1 gauge. Anyone have any thoughts on the price and/or quality?"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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Anyone have a good place for Mass Loaded Vinyl and Closed Cell Foam? Prefer a Big Box store if possible so I can pickup myself and save shipping costs...."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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Sundown Amps are very nice. I'm running one on my SSA Icons.Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!
Home Theater Pics in the Showcase :cool:
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=73580
