RT8's not getting enough power??

ilikesound

I have an issue with my RTI's. I have my RTI8's hooked up as front L/R, a CSi5 for center, and two FX3's as surrounds. The fronts are bi-wired into my VSX-80TXV 7 channel receiver using the 6 and 7 (surround back left and right, just as the manual states) The crossover is at 80hz, and I've gone through the whole MCACC deal so many times is not funny. The speakers just don't have that ''umph'' that I always expected them to have when I picked them up. They also are very bright (not harsh, per se, but much brighter than I'd like.) It could be because of lack of midrange stemming from either the speakers and/or amp, however.
The speakers are VERY clear and pretty detailed, but just lack a certain..punch to them. I've tried everything as far as EQ through the receiver and positioning them in various areas of my room. Ive even put them as far into the corners as I could, trying to get more bass out of them to no avail. I've heard these speakers before and can testify to the fact they really floored me when I first discovered them in the showroom back then. I haven't been able to re-create that sound EVER since owning them.

The funniest part is, when the receiver is in "STEREO" mode (meaning fronts+sub), they sound pretty damn good. They don't have as much of a lack of punch as when they're all working and in pro logic 2 or THX mode or similar.

Now I'm no newcomer to the home theater scene, (I professionally installed for about 4 years and have been active in the car audio scene) and it's really amazing that i've waited as long as I have to post this issue, but could someone shed some light into what I'm experiencing?

mdaudioguy

The RTi8s don't quite have the low end of the 10s or 12s, obviously. I found an external amp really helped to bring balance across the full range of my 10s - thereby mitigating some of the brightness. Also critical to this was a warmer source. I'm not sure of the reputation of the Pios (I think most refer to them as closer to neutral), but an AVR with a reputation for warmth, such as Harman-Kardon or Marantz, might make a difference.

AVRs always sound better for music when in stereo or direct modes.

Oh, and if you're listening to music in any DSP-mode, well... you get what you get. For better fidelity, keep it to two channels.

messiah

The more power you give them, the better they will sound. That's the reason they sound better in stereo than they do in surround, they are getting more power. The more speakers you add to the equation, the less power they get.

Mon40CSMM10

If the newer Pioneer receivers are even somewhat consistent with the older ones then the following Pro Logic II Music mode parameters should be valid--check them:

1. Center width: the default is probably 5, so maybe try 6 to decrease the center channel presence and bring out the sound of the front mains even more. (The range is 0 to 7, with 0 = only the center channel and the center channel presence decreases as the parameter value is incremented up all the way to 7 = no center channel presence at all).

2. Dimension: the default is probably 0 and for better front staging try using +1 through +3 to see what works the best. Even at +3 the surrounds will still have a very faint presence, but the music will be very much biased to the front. (The range is -3 to +3 but negative values bias the sound towards the surrounds rather than the front speakers.)

3. Panorama: this should be Off by default but if it has somehow been enabled then know that Panorama = On is explained as it wraps around the front speaker sound also to the surround speakers. As far as I can tell, that means left front also gets presence in the left surround, and right front also gets presence in the right surround.

Unfortunately, I have no experience with THX music modes, so I can't help with that. Hopefully the Pro Logic II information is helpful.

tonyb

First thing I would do is to remove the bi-amp from the receiver set up you did. Your just robbing Peter to pay Paul in that scenario. Make sure in 2 channel all DSP modes are off. Check your crossover settings and make sure your not engaging dual crossovers resulting in too much filtering. Also make sure none of the plastic coating from the speaker wire is caught in the binding post on the speaks or receiver. Plug the receiver directly into the wall outlet. Try those things and see if any of it helps,lastly,you may need an amp to bring out the crisp tones you might lack from the avr.

TORI3

Agree with all of the previous members' comments -- some really good insight.

I have a pair of RTi8s that were initially connected to a Onkyo 607. The pairing between the Onkyo and the RTi8s was unbelievable bright. I sold the Onkyo and went with a more neutral sounding receiver, which ended up being the Pioneer Elite VSX23. Without doing much equalizing the RTi8s' were not as bright. After a couple of hours I was able to achieve the sound I desired by throwing down the treble frequencies in the Pio's EQ.

Still didn't achieve the "oomph" that I desired, but the brightness was mitigated.

Eventually I was able to get a little more bass when I hooked it up to an amp. The RTi8s are efficient, but they will always sound better with more power IMO.

Good luck!

ilikesound

That post brings up another question i had. Another thing I don't understand is the eq in the pioneer. There are options for "all channel adjust", "front align" and some others. When I change, say, 13khz, in all channel adjust, will this effect all the channels? Wouldnt one kind of need a spectrum analyzer or something to adjust individual channels' frequencies? The eq really doesn't seem to do too much in the lower frequencies below about 400 hz.

I'll experiment with some of those great suggestions, thanks for the posts!
I will update with any changes!

messiah

ilikesound wrote: »

That post brings up another question i had. Another thing I don't understand is the eq in the pioneer. There are options for "all channel adjust", "front align" and some others. When I change, say, 13khz, in all channel adjust, will this effect all the channels? Wouldnt one kind of need a spectrum analyzer or something to adjust individual channels' frequencies? The eq really doesn't seem to do too much in the lower frequencies below about 400 hz.

I'll experiment with some of those great suggestions, thanks for the posts!
I will update with any changes!

A spectrum analyzer doesn't have to listen to your system, your ears do! Just figure it out one speaker at a time. The longer you play with it, the happier you'll be :eek::p

cnoat

Having a set of 8's they will only go so low.A good sub will help the oomph factor

ilikesound

Well, I lowered the cover freq. to 50hz, followed most of Mon40's advice and then re "MCACC'D" it. Then I realized that maybe if I put the receiver in THX modes it would cut some of the treble out. As I watched Everybody Loves Raymond for ten minutes, it was apparent that my settings had done at least a little good! Mains sound louder, more punchy, the treble isn't as hideous as it once was and the mains go MUCH lower now because of the 50hz crossover. (The Logan picks up after that, or somewhere around 60hz actually..) Anyway, I will test it out tomorrow with some Star Wars and U-571 and see what's actually going on and report back. I really didn't have enough time with it today as it was my birthday and I had some stuff to do.

dorokusai

Sometimes you just have to do a little tweaking....that's what's so cool or aggravating about this hobby.

ilikesound

Well, now I have an entirely new set of issues. Last thing I did was the MCACC setup before I went to work. I then attempted to watch a movie and now the right front channel doesn't work. At all. I've double checked the speaker connections, swapped speakers with the same wire as well. When I check the levels of the individual speakers, the right channel is so low you literally have to slam your ear against the tweeter to hear the pink noise coming out of it. I'm not really sure what's going on, I've never even seen this problem before. Is it possible for only one channel of an amp to up and die randomly? Are there some other things I could check? Halp, feel aweful because I wanted to entertain the girlfriend with some movies this Sunday!

Mon40CSMM10

What happens if you don't use MCACC? Subsequently using MCACC after a manual setup is going to override your settings to what it determines to be the best, but I've read in some cases it doesn't always get it quite right in which case the solution is manual adjustment.

First, go into the speaker setup (check your manual for the exact location but on my older VSX-517 receiver it is in Setup, Speaker Setup, Channel Level, Test Tone Manual or Test Tone Auto) and check the speaker channel levels, is the right front set really low? If so, it should be able to be manually increased by turning a dial at the receiver or using the remote control. Note that you'll get the pink noise at the default receiver calibration master volume so another option is just to press the Effect/Ch Sel remote button (or equivalent) to get to the right channel while listening to a sound source and then manually adjust the right channel without using the calibration pink noise.

Then go back and make all the adjustments you did before you re-MCACC'd it. If you like the way it sounds and it isn't overdriving any of the speakers into distortion, go ahead and leave it like that.

Finally, write down or put into a computer document all your manual settings that sound good to you, so you can restore them immediatly if you do another MCACC and it doesn't sound right.

ilikesound

Well, I could always save it as a preset as well as writing them down.

In answer to your original question on how it sounds without MCACC: I've only heard it once without it and there's a reason for it :biggrin: The level is where it probably should be for the front right channel, I don't know what else it could be. Seems like the channel is simply muted. All the dolby compatible material simply shows up as "dolby digital" and all the channels that should be coming through are lit up on the face of the receiver. Stumped!

ilikesound

Today I'll completely reset the entire receiver to try to figure out what the issue is and hope that solves something. Assuming the amp is the culprit here. Don't know, maybe the settings got really REALLY messed up somewhere along the lines.

It is interesting to note that when I turned the thing off the other night, the right channel popped a little bit and I was half asleep at the time, but did notice it happening. Maybe the right channel just bit the dust? Will update as details emerge. If the amp is to blame, I'll inevitably be looking for it's new replacement. I would want something more "warm" and "dark" sounding and I'm not looking to step up to a Rotel or anything hardcore like that. Simply out of my budget at the moment. Would love to keep it under 500 bucks, but would step up around 600 if it was really worth my money. How do Denon's sound these days? It's been since '06 since I've really looked into these things. ;P

polkfarmboy

I hooked my rti8's up to a tube amp and they slam hard enough for music in a smaller room

ilikesound

Well, it seems as if the right channel pops every time I switch sources for audio. Still no sound from the right side front. I'm leaning more and more towards the fact that the side went out for good:mad:

Still not getting any audio out of the right channel after resetting the entire system! Auugh! This isn't what I needed today...