A little paranoid...

Solidate

I need some peace of mind...

I'm running two M60's, CS1, M30's, and a BIC F12.
Crossover is at 60 for 60's and 80 for the rest.
My receiver is a Denon 1611 75x7 WPC

Will my speakers live long enough if the maximum volume I crank them up to is 0 dB? (I believe that's 80 dB)

Thanks!

grimmace19

I personally wouldn't venture that high on the volume know even with a power amp. To me there isn't a need to go past -20db. There is a difference between rated wated (75x7) and actual output when you have more channels running. Once you get past feeding them clean power you will most likely blow something if you keep pushing them.

HTguru1982

No, you'll fry something with volume that high. -20db is as loud as I would go. I've had Denon receivers in the past and anything past -30db was too loud for me. If you add an external amp(assuming your receiver has preouts) then you'll probably be fine.

F1nut

(I believe that's 80 dB)

80 dB is not very loud.

tonyb

When he says he cranks them up to 0...I believe he means on the volume dial. If so,yeah,your stretching it there pal. In surround mode your probably only feeding them 40 watts,so your pushing it. Upgrade the receiver or find one with preouts to add an amp later down the road. Or the obvious, keep your peanut butter and jelly fingers off the volume dial my man.

Solidate

So -20 dB would keep it safe?

I only use 0 dB when I play a movie or listen to classical music. So I don't mind lowering it.

Oh well, good thing that I know this now.
Thank you for the input!

I will go ahead and set the limit -20 dB.

BlueFox

How many times does it need to be mentioned the volume settings on an AVR mean nothing. My AVR goes to +11db.

Does it sound like crap when loud? If so turn it down. Is the volume all the way, or almost all the way, up? If so it is to loud for the AVR. Turn it down.

Get a SPL meter and measure how loud it is at various volume settings. If you have a low end AVR then playing it all the way up will more than likely damage either the speakers, the AVR, your ears, or all three.

cnoat

Can anyone say clip?

Solidate

cnoat wrote: »

Can anyone say clip?

Well, I did hear faint pops at that volume...

Solidate

BlueFox wrote: »

How many times does it need to be mentioned the volume settings on an AVR mean nothing. My AVR goes to +11db.

Does it sound like crap when loud? If so turn it down. Is the volume all the way, or almost all the way, up? If so it is to loud for the AVR. Turn it down.

Get a SPL meter and measure how loud it is at various volume settings. If you have a low end AVR then playing it all the way up will more than likely damage either the speakers, the AVR, your ears, or all three.

It actually sounds clear at 80 dB on my AVR. I can hear hissing though...

BlueFox

Solidate wrote: »

It actually sounds clear at 80 dB on my AVR. I can hear hissing though...

Hissing over the music/movie, or with no input and cranked up? Hissing over the audio is a bad sign. Some hissing while cranked up is 'normal' for a lot of gear.

I had an AVR go bad and start hissing. I was watching a movie one night, and I thought it was raining out. A little later I realized the AVR was doing it, and off to the repair center it went.

Solidate

BlueFox wrote: »

Hissing over the music/movie, or with no input and cranked up? Hissing over the audio is a bad sign. Some hissing while cranked up is 'normal' for a lot of gear.

I had an AVR go bad and start hissing. I was watching a movie one night, and I thought it was raining out. A little later I realized the AVR was doing it, and off to the repair center it went.

At 0 dB it hisses when I play something and then pause it. Otherwise I can't tell if it's hissing while the movie is going. At -20 and lower there is no hiss at all.

I really hope I didn't mess anything up. Only had this system for 2 weeks. Would be a shame to see it die on me.

whgarrett1394

These go to eleven!:D

lightman1

Distortion has been the death of many a speaker.

B Run

I had the exact same setup m60's, cs1, m30's but I had the Denon 1909 with 90 watts per channel, and I clipped my tweeter in the cs1. I noticed when I used a Yamaha rxv1800 with 130 watts X 7 at .04% distortion I could crank it up MUCH louder without even a hint of distortion, so be careful with the 1611.

Solidate

Well if I don't go past -20 dB on my AVR I should be fine I guess. It says master volume is at -40 dB so... I'll just hope they last. At 1k it's an investment lol

PrazVT

Hmm interesting. For a while, I was under the impression that '0' was reference volume (ie THX reference), but now I see that is probably not accurate.

I do tend to up the volume into the teens (-16'ish dB) for a few min when watching 5.1 movies if there is a quiet dialog section..but otherwise, in the low -20s. I've never heard any hissing though.

Same with music (just the RTi A7s w/ the Parasound amp)...mid to low -20s, -18 on occasion. mid to low -20s max for 5.1 DTS CDs.

I'm sure the necessity to turn the volume up depends on the room acoustics, ambient noise, etc. But is turning up the volume more dangerous for the electronics if the amp / receiver are underpowered?

EDIT: Perhaps my situation is similar to B Run's. Denon 125w x 7 @ .05 powering just the surrounds, Onkyo 105w x 2 powering the center, and the Parasound 250w x 2 powering the mains - perhaps a bit more headroom?

B Run

I think the distortion levels play a huge factor in how loud you can turn it up, once you turn it up and start getting distortion that's how you clip a tweeter. Honestly though I always listen to music on my system at 0, and usually watch movies somewhere between -10 and 0, and I never hear any distortion and the receiver never gets hot or struggles. I'm sure having an external amp would help a lot, and it's definitely on my list.

Solidate

B Run wrote: »

I think the distortion levels play a huge factor in how loud you can turn it up, once you turn it up and start getting distortion that's how you clip a tweeter. Honestly though I always listen to music on my system at 0, and usually watch movies somewhere between -10 and 0, and I never hear any distortion and the receiver never gets hot or struggles. I'm sure having an external amp would help a lot, and it's definitely on my list.

Personally I can't tell if there's distortion at 0 dB.
Sometimes when listening to music I would hear a faint pop. Nothing overpowering though. Might be the mp3.

I watched how to train your dragon at 0dB and it sounded clean to me.

cnh

Rarely get above -20 on a Denon AVR? The upper limit is +18 the lower -80. I've often run above -20, as F1nut suggests above, that's not that loud for HT. I remember seeing systems hooked to Denon 988s (2808) in Big Box stores that needed to be at -8 so you get get some 'realism' from the Video disc and that was on a KEF satellite system. You'd be best off getting an SPL meter and checking the Reference levels instead of relying on Denon's numbering scheme.

Speaker Efficiency is also a consideration here, I'd say. You're probably not going to fry anything at higher than -20 unless the amp clips...which doesn't seem likely considering what speakers you're driving?

The caveat, is of course, that the 1611 may clip more quickly than a higher model? I own a 280X series and I don't hear any distortion at 0....nothing. It's dead quiet. Though I don't run that high!

Finally, MP3s are not a good test of clean sound at High Volumes as you seem to surmise.

cnh

jayman_1975

PrazVT wrote: »

Hmm interesting. For a while, I was under the impression that '0' was reference volume (ie THX reference), but now I see that is probably not accurate.

You are right. On a "thx" processor such as my AV9, when i hit 0 it says "REFERENCE" beside it. It's ridiculously loud and i would never watch a movie or listen to music at that level. I used my spl meter and got a level of 105db at -5 volume setting and turned it down before i blew my windows out of my living room. The manual says max volume is +15.

Solidate

Well at 0 dB on the Denon I can only hear a hiss when I pause it. It's not very loud either. I'm actually comfortable at -10 for movies because it's just the right volume for my room. Besides, my speakers are already set at a lower dB because of auto eq. -6 to -8 dB throughout the speakers.

I'll get an spl just in case though.
What dB should I be aiming for with it for max allowable volume?
Since 0 is loud already and seems clean to me... I'd say -10 is the sweet spot.

VR3

I love watching movies at 0...

You guys are wimps.

comfortablycurt

The volume "level" readout on an AVR is essentially meaningless, and varies greatly from receiver to receiver. If the signal is coming through with no distortion, and no obvious strain on the speakers...such as bottoming out etc...then you should be just fine.

Solidate

comfortablycurt wrote: »

The volume "level" readout on an AVR is essentially meaningless, and varies greatly from receiver to receiver. If the signal is coming through with no distortion, and no obvious strain on the speakers...such as bottoming out etc...then you should be just fine.

If only I could tell what that sounded like...

So far the only thing I notice is that my center speaker lacks base in dialogue so it can be a bit harsh. Nothing unbearable though

PrazVT

So ultimately, what's the deal? It almost sounds like if you have a lower powered receiver / amp, and you turn the volume up high, there is some risk of damaging something.

Too much stress on the receiver? Screwy power going to the speakers? Just curious.

comfortablycurt

PrazVT wrote: »

So ultimately, what's the deal? It almost sounds like if you have a lower powered receiver / amp, and you turn the volume up high, there is some risk of damaging something.

Too much stress on the receiver? Screwy power going to the speakers? Just curious.

The problem is, that with lower powered AVR's, they won't be able to supply enough current to generate big dynamics. This causes the speakers themselves to work much harder to attain higher volumes, which can ultimately damage them. This is why higher powered external amps are the best option whenever possible.

PrazVT

ie. higher current amps right? Thanks - interesting stuff