A-Gon Dispute. What's your opinion?

Jetmaker737
Jetmaker737 Posts: 1,045
edited October 2010 in The Clubhouse
I bought a preamp on A-gon. Seller rated it as an "8". Before buying I asked him "Any notable scratches, etc?". He replied "No scratches at all".

A-Gon description of an "8" rating: Electronics may have 1 or 2 minor scratches (max 1/2" long, very thin) on the top plate or the sides of electronics, but again, the front must be perfect.

The unit has small nick on the lower faceplate edge (right beneath the lower leg of the "L" in "SWL"):

th_IMG_3478.jpg

Of course this pic maximizes the visibility of it. In certain lighting it's a little harder to see, but still there. There's a burr along the edge that can be felt with the finger.

The seller has brushed me off on this stating "I showed your pictures to a few seasoned Audiogon friends and they could not see anything from your detailed pictures. Honestly, is this even the size of a pencil tip (a pinhead maybe)? I am not even sure this isn't the way it came from the factory. I do not believe you are being reasonable in this matter."

I had asked him to partially refund me some of my money, telling him this "The keyword is "perfect". So now if I go to resell this on A-gon I will need to rate it a 7 and I'm sure I will need to shave a couple hundred off the price. I've bought and sold a few items on A-gon and read thousands of A-gon classifieds so I'm confident that this is the case."

So I'd like some Polkie opinions... am I being unreasonable or too picky here?

Thanks,
Jet
SystemLuxman L-590AXII Integrated Amplifier|KEF Reference 1 Loudspeakers|PS Audio Directream Jr|Sansui TU-9900 Tuner|TEAC A-6100 RtR|Nakamichi RX-202 Cassette
Post edited by Jetmaker737 on

Comments

  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited October 2010
    A bit too picky, as I feel it could of came like that from the factory. Also I sure price wise being a 8/10 it was priced correctly. Just MHO.

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  • thsmith
    thsmith Posts: 6,082
    edited October 2010
    I you go by the letter of what an 8 is then you are right but it is borderline IMO.
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited October 2010
    Agon Rules are not strictly enforced. And not everyone can follow Agon Ratings. Mostly, no one follows Agon strict ratings. It's hard for anyone to sell anything used if everyone must follow Agon ratings precisely.

    But I guess you and the seller can work something out in a positive manner since he said it's perfect. It's showing a nick and you can ask him nicely to accept the returns.

    Many sellers will perceive any request for partial refund as a rip off and won't likely give in to that kind of request. But he may accepts the return for full refund.

    I understand how you feels but if you paid for it at a lower price than average, I don't think you'll lose out anything when you resell it at a later time.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited October 2010
    I think you are too picky and unreasonable. That "nick" is nearly undetectable and no way that is a $200 blemish. I would rate it an 8.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
  • Jetmaker737
    Jetmaker737 Posts: 1,045
    edited October 2010
    megasat16 wrote: »
    But I guess you and the seller can work something out in a positive manner since he said it's perfect. It's showing a nick and you can ask him nicely to accept the returns.

    Many sellers will perceive any request for partial refund as a rip off and won't likely give in to that kind of request. But he may accepts the return for full refund.

    I did offer to return at my expense for refund of purchase price. He declined.

    Appreciate the responses! Looks like so far the feeling is I'm too picky. Knowing myself, that's certainly a possibility.
    SystemLuxman L-590AXII Integrated Amplifier|KEF Reference 1 Loudspeakers|PS Audio Directream Jr|Sansui TU-9900 Tuner|TEAC A-6100 RtR|Nakamichi RX-202 Cassette
  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 6,727
    edited October 2010
    Seems like a pretty minor flaw. I've had some pretty significant flaws on equipment that was supposed to be a 7 or 8 rating.

    Between 8 and 7 Agon rating, there is very little price difference from my experience. Some sellers grade low to be safe, some sellers push the rating. They all seem to shoot for the same price. That flaw is on the bottom edge, which is the least visible part of the front face. I doubt it will really affect the value long term. What will affect value is the reputation of the product and the amount of similar units for sale at the time you sell it.

    Given the small scale/hand made production of Modwright, I really woudn't be surpised if that was a factory flaw.

    Just let it go and enjoy the preamp. Let us know how you like it too. I've been considering one myself.
    For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore...
  • jephdood
    jephdood Posts: 1,671
    edited October 2010
    I totally get being anal about gear. I'm with you there. But that is TINY. Did you pay his asking price? Or did you negotiate down when buying it? And how does what you paid compare with the average price for that piece? Did you get a pretty good deal anyway?

    Did you have the guy send you detailed pics before you bought?
    "I did not slap you. I high-fived your face."
  • Jetmaker737
    Jetmaker737 Posts: 1,045
    edited October 2010
    jephdood wrote: »
    I totally get being anal about gear. I'm with you there. But that is TINY. Did you pay his asking price? Or did you negotiate down when buying it? And how does what you paid compare with the average price for that piece? Did you get a pretty good deal anyway?

    Did you have the guy send you detailed pics before you bought?

    I paid his full asking price which was right around bluebook. I think it's a decent price since this is a "signature" version of the preamp. I got hi-rez pics of the interior but not exterior (lesson learned!). His A-gon photos were from an iPhone.
    SystemLuxman L-590AXII Integrated Amplifier|KEF Reference 1 Loudspeakers|PS Audio Directream Jr|Sansui TU-9900 Tuner|TEAC A-6100 RtR|Nakamichi RX-202 Cassette
  • jephdood
    jephdood Posts: 1,671
    edited October 2010
    I'd just enjoy it then. I sympathize, as I have had speakers before that I loved, but if they had any small blemishes, I couldn't get over it. I've since lightened up on that a bit and just started enjoying the music.

    Yeah, he should have probably disclosed it to you, but my guess is you'll wait quite a while to find another one nicer if that's the only issue with it. Dim the room, pour your favorite beverage.. you won't think twice about it.
    "I did not slap you. I high-fived your face."
  • decal
    decal Posts: 3,205
    edited October 2010
    To answer your question with a question....How does it sound?
    If you can't hear a difference, don't waste your money.
  • Jetmaker737
    Jetmaker737 Posts: 1,045
    edited October 2010
    decal wrote: »
    To answer your question with a question....How does it sound?

    It sounds awesome! :cool:
    jephdood wrote: »
    ...if they had any small blemishes, I couldn't get over it. I've since lightened up on that a bit and just started enjoying the music... Dim the room, pour your favorite beverage.. you won't think twice about it.

    I'm just like that when it comes to my gear!... good advice there.
    SystemLuxman L-590AXII Integrated Amplifier|KEF Reference 1 Loudspeakers|PS Audio Directream Jr|Sansui TU-9900 Tuner|TEAC A-6100 RtR|Nakamichi RX-202 Cassette
  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited October 2010
    Too picky in my opinion. Lighten up and realize the benifits of buying used. If you bought a new one today how much more would it have cost you? Also, would you be willing to resell it next month for $200 less than you paid if you had put that scratch on it? I've bought plenty of gear that was perfect and plenty with nuts and screws missing. In all cases it was described +/- 10% of what it really looked like. Enjoy the new amp!
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited October 2010
    If a macro inspection reveals the nick is "from the factory", it shouldn't lower the value of the pre, sorta like what's said on Antiques Roadshow about mishaps that occurred in the kiln.:D
  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,808
    edited October 2010
    Seriously, something like that could have been done in shipment or during packing and not even realized it. I know I've banged stuff up accidentally after I pulled it out of teh box and stuff it on the shelf.

    But then again, if you want visually perfect, buy new. Used gear gets used and banged up at times. It comes with the territory. If it's presentable and you love the way it sounds, why even bother with the hassle?
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited October 2010
    I think the rating was fair and you should move on.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
  • Jetmaker737
    Jetmaker737 Posts: 1,045
    edited October 2010
    dorokusai wrote: »
    I think the rating was fair and you should move on.

    Agreed... I've contacted the seller and told him everything's cool. Appreciate the advice everyone.
    SystemLuxman L-590AXII Integrated Amplifier|KEF Reference 1 Loudspeakers|PS Audio Directream Jr|Sansui TU-9900 Tuner|TEAC A-6100 RtR|Nakamichi RX-202 Cassette
  • jephdood
    jephdood Posts: 1,671
    edited October 2010
    Crisis averted! What's playing on it tonight? And, choice of tasty adult beverage?
    "I did not slap you. I high-fived your face."
  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,212
    edited October 2010
    I bought a jolida jd9a phono pre amp guy didn't have any pictures up and I never asked he said it was just a few months old and it had the black face not the silver that was the selling point for me by the way, and when I got it it was new to me no flaws at all. I had a problem with one tube, I contacted him and he sent me a new set.

    I love the gon.

    Enjoy your new gear!!!;)
  • obieone
    obieone Posts: 5,077
    edited October 2010
    Adrian Monk?
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!
  • Jetmaker737
    Jetmaker737 Posts: 1,045
    edited October 2010
    jephdood wrote: »
    Crisis averted! What's playing on it tonight? And, choice of tasty adult beverage?

    Answers:

    1) Piping my beloved Sansui tuner through it.

    2) Having a little Bud Light!

    By the way as most of you may have noticed this is a ModWright SWL 9.0SE Signature preamp. It's running an AR4/GZ34 Mullard UK, and two 5687 Tungsol Raytheons. It sounds very good to me but I'll spend a lot of quality time with it before making any final judgments.
    SystemLuxman L-590AXII Integrated Amplifier|KEF Reference 1 Loudspeakers|PS Audio Directream Jr|Sansui TU-9900 Tuner|TEAC A-6100 RtR|Nakamichi RX-202 Cassette
  • orrb_05
    orrb_05 Posts: 215
    edited October 2010
    Dude,

    I 100% agree with you!! Audiogon's rating system is clear-cut. Half the bozos that sell on EBay would be in for a big surprise to find out what "MINT" really means, or 9/10. or 8/10. etc... By all means, push the issue with Audiogon - you paid your good money for it.
  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited October 2010
    Agreed... I've contacted the seller and told him everything's cool. Appreciate the advice everyone.
    orrb_05 wrote: »
    Dude,

    I 100% agree with you!! Audiogon's rating system is clear-cut. Half the bozos that sell on EBay would be in for a big surprise to find out what "MINT" really means, or 9/10. or 8/10. etc... By all means, push the issue with Audiogon - you paid your good money for it.

    So what do you agree with? The OP basically agreed with the majority that responded that he really got what he paid for. He's letting it go. NOT pushing the issue.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
  • orrb_05
    orrb_05 Posts: 215
    edited October 2010
    I'm goin against the grain and sayin' "PUSH THE ISSUE ****"

    **** ya!
  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited October 2010
    Great idea....create an issue where none exists. :rolleyes:
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
  • kawizx9r
    kawizx9r Posts: 5,150
    edited October 2010
    Enjoy the pre, enjoy the music.....but get yourself some real beer ;):p
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  • orrb_05
    orrb_05 Posts: 215
    edited October 2010
    No, if the OP is cool with the outcome then that's his choice - I'm simply stating that Audiogon's rating scale is what it is. No harm intended :D
  • cstmar01
    cstmar01 Posts: 4,424
    edited October 2010
    I'm pretty anal about stuff myself and would be annoyed if it wasn't noted, however everyone has different ways of viewing it and to me it could me a manf. error or something that was over looked.

    if its something that doesn't affect resale value in my eyes as a very small cosmetic thing I wouldn't lose sleep over it as there could be far far worse wrong.
  • Jetmaker737
    Jetmaker737 Posts: 1,045
    edited October 2010
    kawizx9r wrote: »
    Enjoy the pre, enjoy the music.....but get yourself some real beer ;):p

    I hear ya! It's leftovers from deer camp so can't let it go to waste. :p
    SystemLuxman L-590AXII Integrated Amplifier|KEF Reference 1 Loudspeakers|PS Audio Directream Jr|Sansui TU-9900 Tuner|TEAC A-6100 RtR|Nakamichi RX-202 Cassette
  • wallstreet
    wallstreet Posts: 1,405
    edited October 2010
    decal wrote: »
    To answer your question with a question....How does it sound?

    My thoughts exactly. Especially given the sound quality. Sale done!