airy carb....

PoweredByDodge

i redid the carb today -- went well... had to replace 6" of gas line on the two fuel lines but other than that, it wasn't bad -- compression nuts saved the day.

only one problem -- the damn AC compressor **** the can today -- i was sittin in the car with the AC on smokin a ciggy listenin to my PHAT FRICKIN BEATS

[ byt he way.. SW ZN 3.5 are phat patch cables-- they're KISSING the 2 awg power line for th eentire 20 foot length and IT DOESN"T PICK UP ANY NOISE... mucho good-o ... i'm tellin ya -- those 8's are pretty damn good for 8's -- damn JBl amps tho -- grrrrrr , i'm sick of em.. and the 3.5's!!!! OMG -- i cant believe it -- i threw a test cd in -- they'll go down to 100 hertz before they start giving me any crap -- and that's at top volume... I Xed them at 125 and caled it a day -- i'm in total shock, no rattle, no nothing.. i relaly thought i was gonna have to cut em off at 200 but they are really IMPRESSING ME !!! this **** is so clean.. not loud, btu clean ]

... well midway through the greatest hits of toby keith, i turn the AC on cuz its hot in the car with the thing runnin in the garage (yes garage door open, no i'm not tryin to kill myself)... so 2 minutes later...

"tick tick tick tick"

then "wirrrrrr"

then "tick tick"

then " squeal"

then realy realy fast "tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick"

this is all during idle....

open the hood --- can't figure it out -- cant localize the sound.

shut the ac off --- it goes away for a minute....

then it comes back just tiny

look at the belt -- its startin to burn up... the AC compressor is turning a little but not enough and its just about seized up.


so that's gotta go... GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.. i planned on replacing it -- juts not right now -- but the way it is i'm gonna burn belts if i dont swap it out -- i'm just REALLY glad i did the carb before i was gonna do the belts -- i was gonna do belts tomorrow morning - i'm glad this happened now or i'd of been ticked off -- its not hte money - they're like 6 or 8 bucks each -- its just the TIME and effort. as i said, i'm no Shelby here (yes i just gave props to ford... dont tell anyone), so it takes me a while to do stuff but i do it right.. if i dont, i fix it... i'm determined if anything.


anyway... the other bug up my **** is this carb...

1- i had to cut the old fule lines in cuz they were rusted solid (stainless steel line not rusted but the "nut" that holds it in place was rusted solid.. so i had to cut it and hten splice in with comp nuts which wasn't too bad).

2- i busted one rod thingy -- so i've gotta get some really heavy coat hanger type **** to make a new 3" long piece of **** pin... its not a stressed piece so it wont be a problem... the existing one is fine, it just slips out once in a while -- so i'll just mock up a new one lookin at the old one. but i was able to trial run the car w/ the old one.

3- the main problem --- there is a "top set of fins" on top of the carb just under the air cleaner. i guess when u start the car they should be wide open, and then flip back to about 1/2 open after ignition, then gradually go to a "happy spot" once the car is runnin -- that spot depends on temp -- if its cold, they're shut.. if its hot (the engine i mean) they're more open...

@, when u press down on that vaccuum pump pin in the carb and jam it all the way down that sucker revs man... but its catchin itself in between...and i think its cuz that top flap is not mobile...

i haven't had a chance (since it got to be like 10 o clock when this happened so i'm gonna check tomorrow) to figure out whether its cuz the other end of that rod that moves the flap is loose (came off its little mount) or if its attached but just not movign... if it is attached but not moving -- what the hell could make it do that???? i mean it woudl mean i didnt' hook something up right... any ideas????

after i get this worked out i'm doing that AC, the belts, then setting the timing straight.

oh -- panasonic head units -- low on features -- amazing on quality, sound reproduction, and looks! -- good part -- low on price.

so if anybody can throw me a bone on the carb thing ... feel free to throw it... i'm just stressin this more than i should i know, but i worry abotu ****, so... ya know.

Jstas

Ok, first things first, don't hork out that AC compressor yet. Check out the clutch. The pulley looks different because it has a clutch in it to switch on and off. When the AC is not running, the pulley turns free because the clutch is disengaged. Sounds to me like your clutch is bad. It's a simple thing to replace. The new clutch will run anywhere between 15 and 60 dollars. I'm betting yours would be about 35-40. Replace that first. To find out whats bad, pull the belt and spin the pulley by hand. The clutch will be disengaged from the compressor so if you hear a ticking, it's most likely not the compressor. Get yourself a shop manual for the car and go and get a new clutch. There may be a core charge on it too so don't shitcan your old pulley yet. You may need to pick up a pulley puller too but that's fine because it's one of the most useful tools you will ever own. AC clutches are fairly simple to replace. The shop manual is for reference because I know you ain't never dun gone and replaced one uv them thar AC clutches by tha way yer yammerin'!

As far as your carb goes, take the broken part to a parts store. I'll bet they have the right part rather than trying to rig one up with a coat hanger. Like you said, do it right.

Those "fins" are the throttle butterflies. The reason they are not moving is because you have a busted choke. Get a new one and replace it. It's literally a bolt in affair, takes about a half an hour unless you drop a spring then it can take forever!

Check out what you want to about the choke but rarely to rods and linkages on a carb break without ham-fisted human intervention.

Also, is the car idling ok? Do you know if it has an electric choke? If it does, you may not have it hooked to it's power. Without it, those butterflies don't move. Some of that stumbling may also come from the accelerator pump and diaphram. Usually, the accelerator pump is fine and the diaphram needs to be replaced. It's another fairly cheap part. If you get a shop manual for the car, it should cover the carb. Another thing is that the carb may not be adjusted properly and that could be causing the stumbling. Your mixture may be off or your idle control is not set properly.

Do you have a 4 or 2 barrel carb? If it is a 4 barrel carb, do you have vaccum secondaries? Either way though, the advance on your distributor may not be right. You may have to recurve your distributor and it's quite easy. Hard for me to explain because I have never done it but I do know how and it isn't that difficult. The stumble could be caused by the distributor advancing too far too quickly and that would be because the timing curve is advancing the spark lead too fast and causing the rotor to fire when it is not contacting a lead. So the engine slows back down to the point where it gets firing again and starts to acclerate past the point where the advance advances too far. It's a simple spring and/or weight change inside the distributor. Don't worry about it at all.

I know some of this is over your head but with all this fancy electronic crap in engines nowadays, tuning and rebuilding carbs and recurving distributors is becoming a lost art. Very few people know how to do it anymore. A perfect example was when I was trying to explain to my girlfriend's uncle about how to recurve the points distributor in his 65 T-bird. He didn't listen. Him and his wife (girlfriend's aunt) and my future father-in-law all stood in total astonishment that I could recall from memory how to do the job. Sometimes I make people's heads spin because I can get so buried in technical details and such that I lose them completely. On top of that, I sometimes overlook the simple problems so I have to force myself to think simply about it.

Anyway.

You may also want to pickup a book that covers carb servicing, tuning and overhauling. Haynes has one that is pretty decent and has lots of pictures. Also make sure that it covers Quadrajets. You may have to goto a bookstore for it. That's the best place to go. If they don't have it, they can usually order it. Is a popular subject though so most stores have numerous books from numerous publishers in stock. It's a good book to add for your library.

But don't sweat it. It may take a while but if you take your time, you'll get it and then you can tell your grandfather that you learned how to rebuild and tune a carb!

And that Toby Keith CD you were listening to, is track number 4 Dreamwalkin'? If so, that is an awesome song to test stereos to! Another good one is track number 5 "A Little Less Talk And A Lot More Action". It has an awesome bluesy sound to it, like a roadhouse kinda sound! Really shows the dynamic range of a stereo with that kicking bass drum and wailing guitar! One of my favorite CD's sees an almost constant rotation in my CD player.

PoweredByDodge

"Dreamwalkin, pillowtalkin, she's callin my name again...."

yup -- that thar be dar nar dun one...

jim bob billy joe hoebert.

re- busted choke: see i dunno -- i think its my own dumbass fault -- it was true to motion and such pre-my scewing with it -- now its limp -- i think i shud buy viagra for it too... but if i cant get it to work tomrrow -- tomorrow night i'll buy the choke.

re- AC -- i'll try that -- just pull the belt off -- with the car not running -- and turn the pulley and see if it ticks -- if it does -- its the clutch -- if not -- when i start the car -- no tick with belt off -- its the comp? i think i got it.

re - carb: there are 3 wires goin in it -- 2 on the driver side - 1 on psgr side -- but they go into a little blue thig that resembles a steel relay -- well that POS blue thing has an arm on it which hooks just under the lever that is pulled by the accelerator... so when u hit the gas that level is pulled "down" which pulls the blue hunk of ****'s arm down -- that blue thing is also springloaded... i have no idea if that is the clutch or not -- i'm braindead dude... on the other side of the carb is what i actually think the clutch is -- there is one wire going into what looks like a mini hockey puck -- that is the side with the control arm for the butterfly-- it has a green arm going through a keyhole which hooks to a flat arm which then hooks to the coat hanger lookin arm that goes up to the butterfly.

re-idle/: it idles fine... its just on the damn pickup that it goes stupid. i've yet to do the timing -- once i do that'll take care of the advance on the distro that you're talking about right? that's the whole point of timing right?

... im startin to think i shudda left it on there as is all gunked up -- but i'll bang it out eventually -- one way or another, no turnin back now -- i'm just glad i only got class 2 days a week and a garage to work in else i'd be in hell.

lemme run this by u too john... IF the AC comp is bad -- and i get a new style compressor, to convert to R134(the new kind) all i need is the dessicant can and a certain valve (in addition to the new compressor) ?? or is there some other junk i'd have to do.

cuz if the compressor is shot i'm tossin around the idea of just having a pulley bracket welded up for there and saying "FK the AC" -- its had problems since its birth with AC.

most of this is over my head-- but i'm a quick study... and arguably obsessive... whatta i need a book for though when i've got you? hahaha

sntnsupermen131

i thought this was a car AUDIO forum?
lol...dont worry dodge...some of that stuff is over my head too...but then again...i have to look at it to be able to figure it out...john can just tell you...wish i was an oracle of knowledge too...lol
-Cody

PoweredByDodge

dont worry cody, you're still the disc brake god

john -- i've got good and bad news -- well more like "confirmation and anti-confirmation"

the carb is not bad -- nor is the choke -- but you were right...

the butterfly on top is controlled by the choke and were it hooked up properly, then the choke wudda been bad, but following your general location for the choke i traced where the choke hooks to the first arm... then i followed from the butterfly down that arm -- and the two arms weren't hooked properly - the 2nd one was jammed a little... twisted it free, got it good and straight, and now the butterfly works like a charm.

i dunno if this is "Straight" but i kinda ghetto rigged that busted arm that goes from the throttle pull up to the vaccum push down pin -- i replaced it with some high gauge similar metal rod (its like coat hanger only heavier -- my grandfather had some laying around that was almost identical... called auto parts store - they said they sell it in rods of 1 foot long... so i was like "**** just use what i got its the same stuff since i gotta bend it anyway" ... well i made it just like 1/4 inch longer and hooked it to the second hole on the arm instead of the first -- which basically just results in that vaccuum pin being pushed down a little farther -- which i guess lends more "function" to the secondary barrels... the two big ones in back...

i also raised the idle a little bit and made the loose sagging throttle cable goin to the gas pedal semi tight.. not tight tight but it doesnt' hang anymore...

the result is tighter response when u hit the gas.

i pulled off the belt to the AC, and with the modification i made to the carb, the engine no longer purrs like a kitten.... it roars like a tiger.

i spun the AC pully with the belt off and engine on but AC switch off -- as per your instruction -- and while it made a "i'm a rusty old pully" sound, it did not do the ticking or anything as it did before -- this leads me to beleive the comnpressor is jacked up on the inside but not the clutch/pully --- so i priced up AC units and to get a new compressor and the **** to do the AC over to the new style -- it'd be like 170 bucks.. which aint bad, but i figure i'm just gonna leave well enough alone and leave the AC dead for now -- since the car will run fine with the belt just running over the pully as long as AC is turned off -- i figure next summer if he wants to spring for the AC, we can, if not -- i could care less... i'm just as happy w/ the windows down and that damn AC sucks horsepower away anyhow.

after about 2 hours of starting stopping / running the engine... the only problem right now is a squeaky belt (i put the new belts on) --- i think that means one is too tight -- so i'm gonna loosen it tomorrow morning..

doing timing tomorrow morning too...

then rear axle

then we're getting wagner brakes, futura SS tires, and some monroe sensatrac shocks


thanks for all your help -- and i know this is a short "long" post -- i'm just in a hurry and will post back later (as well as the other threads)...

thanks again john and cody

-vinnie

Jstas

CONGRATULATIONS! You have just performance tuned your first carb! Dude, don't worry about it. If it's working well enough, go with it. I just didn't want to rigging up a coat hanger. That could end up being dangerous because coat hanger wire is not the same as the rod stock you used. Just remember what you have done so that if it turns out something ain't working, you can change it and know where you started.

Tha throttle cable, don't worry about it. Over time, they can get stretched out. Most car companies say to replace it but, that isn't always necessary. If you had to pull up like a foot of slack then yes, replace it. Otherwise, pull up the slack and go with it. The pedal shouldn't sag and neither should the cable. The reason you notice more throttle response is because the initial motion has to take up the extra slack before it moves the throttle. Also, you may not have been getting the throttle open all the way when floored either because of the lack of tension in the cable. So, good job. You'll get the hang of it!

As far as the AC goes, that's a good deal. You may want to get the system evacuated of R-12 before you start tearing it apart. Venting R-12 into the atmosphere is a Federal offense and if a nighbor feels like being a jerk, you can goto jail. It may add 30-60 bucks to the price of the AC service but, I'd rather spend the money and know I ain't goin to jail and I didn't destroy the environment.

That squeaky belth though, doesn't usually mean it is too tight. It means it's too loose. Most belts require more tension than what most people think. You may want to tighten it up some more and try it before you go loosening it. If you loosen it too much and it starts slipping excessivly, you'll destroy the belt. You are less likely to kill the belt by tightening than you are by loosening.

What are you planning for the rear diff? Just the fluid change?

Good to hear things are going well for you!

You should take pictures and show us!

PoweredByDodge

performance tune? lmfao -- i thought it was called 'ghetto rigging and praying'.

it idles a little too high... its throaty tho... i like it that way -- i know one thing tho -- once i get plates on the damn thing, first stop sign i get to, i'm gonna leave 5 feet of rubber behind me (note this will be done on the way to get new tires.... i've got 10 yr old michelins with like 80% treadlife left... they'r ejust ugly and discolored as sin whitewalls.... thus -- good burnout material!)

ya just swappin out gear oil in back...

i looked at the shocks, they're inside the coil springs in front, and in back you've gotta have the car on a full jack so that the leaf springs de-compress and give u enough room to get your hands up in there -- so for 10 bucks per shock labor i'm just havin the mechanic do it -- it'd take me 2 solid days otherwise.

that belt -- i'll try yankin it a little tighter and see what that does -- if i try everything and cant get it to stop squelin, i'll assume maybe the AC is draggin it a little (testing by hand is ok, but i cant turn that pully 5k rpms with my hand so maybe its squealin only with engine speed turning)... in which case i'll get a shorter belt that'll just go around the power steering (the alt and fan belt is fine) .. its a clear shot with no obstruction so if i measure it up i shud be able to get something... not stressin the belt -- its like 8 bucks for the one on the AC/PS... the one on the alt was like 18 though -- and its shorter -- talk about retarded pricing.

i'm lookin @ the instructions to the timing light and it says to loosen a nut under the distributor -- which is all fien and well - but i cant seem to find said nut..lol... might end up havin ti pull the cap off to find it, no big deal... its there somewhere... just glad that when i scraped off about half an inch of grime and **** i found hte white hash marks for judging timing next to the main pully off the motor. i had thought they were long worn off but they're there -- grimey but there.


pics? yikes --- she's an ugly engine -- well not that bad -- the exhaust manifold on both sides has that rusted to hell look... everything else is basic black...

the audio looks great though so does the interior -- 25 yr old vinyl and its still almost new (cept where i sat down with a screwdriver in my pocket -- any ides on fixing a 2 and a half inch long straight (like a razor cut - not a jagged thing) tear in vinyl?).

if i have a **** camera the outside will look good -- lol -- no dents, no rust, but the paint is scuffed up in a lotta spots and has those little spiderweb tiny crackles that seem like they're "under" the clear coat.

rear shrouds over the tail lights are cracked to hell (got new ones outa ABS plastic - perfect match - for like 150 - best deal i made in a while - the "Cadillac Graveyard" outa texas took an original set from just about every 70's year cadillac and made ceramic molds -- then makes abs plastic versions to order for 200... they also advertise that they can find any part you need for a 60/70's caddy... but they could't find me the cosmetic covers that go over the rear door hinges (sits on the pillar between front and rear door and is about 2 feet high - covers hinges and wires)... so he took 50 bucks off the light shrouds. i've got a year to find those hinge hider deals -- i'll hit the boneyards later this summer.

when the paint gets done, the aftermarket body kit (deville had a chrome body kit that went about 4" tall along the whole length of the bottom -- samebody as the calais, but more features, so **** bag put the body kit on and slapped deville badges on it... some people are 'tards)... has to come off, and stay off, it doesn't perfeectly get to the shape of the panels and water has collected in there over the years and killed the finish underneath it --- gonna have them rhinoliner over the bottom 4" of the car once its done painted --- u cant see that portion unless you're on your hands and knees and since its gonna be black anyway - it works out well...

anywho -- i'll get you pics after i get pep boys to hack at it and do the finishing up for me... figure 2 wks.


just bear in mind that the **** body finish is not staying -- grandparents just dont want to bite a 3,500 dollar bullet the sme summer they had like 5 grand in house stuff done (driveway / fence / other crap) so that's waitin till early nxt summer.

its **** havin a car that's all worked on - audio system all tricked out - and runnin well - but has a dog **** lookin outer body.

sntnsupermen131

itd probably be best to let the mechanic do the shocks...some cars can be a pain in the ****...if you dont let all the tension out they can pop out and literally kill you...so yeah...if you dont know 100% or dont have the right tools...let the mechanic do it...and 170 for an a/c compressor is damn good...the one for my truck was like 280 rebuilt...so yeah...
good luck with everything else
-Cody

Jstas

Originally posted by PoweredByDodge

i'm lookin @ the instructions to the timing light and it says to loosen a nut under the distributor -- which is all fien and well - but i cant seem to find said nut..lol... might end up havin ti pull the cap off to find it, no big deal... its there somewhere... just glad that when i scraped off about half an inch of grime and **** i found hte white hash marks for judging timing next to the main pully off the motor. i had thought they were long worn off but they're there -- grimey but there.

The nut it is reffering to is the nut that tightens teh distributor hold down clamp. It is literally UNDER the distributor and on the intake manifold of the engine. If you don't loosen it, you won't be able to turn the whole distributor in its hole to advance or **** the timing.

You might need to get a special wrench that has 2 right angles bent into it. You can pick that up at Pep Boys. Just ask the parts guys. It's in the tools section.

PoweredByDodge

gotcha