Daggnabbit! What now? Anthem1 amplifier...

treitz3
treitz3 Posts: 19,033
edited November 2010 in 2 Channel Audio
Just my freakin' luck. After a real nice showing at Carverfest and a 3 week break from stereo [to catch up on some things around the house], I unload the trailer and start to hook my rig back up. Anthem tube amp #1, biased well and started to play some tunes as I plugged in and started biasing amp #2. [I have a bi-amped rig]

So, being safe, I wipe down all the tubes and make sure they are securely footed. I turned down the bias pots all the way to slowly bring them up to the proper voltage. I brought them all up to .02v with no issues and let them stabilize a bit. So far, so good. It was when I start to bring them up to the recommended voltage that I noticed something weird. Tubes 1,2 and 3 went to .04v just fine. Tube #4 was all over the place 0v all the way up to .9v :eek: and back down in no particular order. Just as I was about to hit the power button, tube #4 bit the dust.

Eh, I thought to myself that it could have just been a tube. No problem. So, I got out a spare set of matched tubes and repeated the procedure. Same daggum thing happened. So, now I'm out two matched sets of tubes and I believe it's obvious that the amp is dicked.

Now what? I can't seem to get a hold of anybody at Anthem and I don't want to try another matched set of tubes as I've already gone through a set of reissue Genalex KT77's and a set of Mullards.

Y'all got any suggestions?
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
Post edited by treitz3 on
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Comments

  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited October 2010
    Tom, no suggestions. But that really sucks you lost 2 matched pair of tubes. Hopefully it's something simple. I'd wait to hear from Anthem.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,033
    edited October 2010
    Actually, it was two matched quads. DOH!

    Eh, at least I have tunes right now. The Anthem1 that's working fine is running the rig right now.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited October 2010
    Wasscally Wabbitt Hole, well of course I have no way to be sure but the voltage coming off the rail through the bias circuit seems wacked. Nothing burned I take it possible resistor or the bias pot may be tweaked.

    At least you have tunes until Anthem responds.

    RT1
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,500
    edited October 2010
    On two McAlister tube amps, I've seen faulty tubes take out a resistor in the tube circuit. The bias was high for the affected tube socket and couldn't be adjusted. The resistor was connected to one of the tube socket lugs. I installed new resistors and got them back up and running. YMMV, of course...

    The pic is an enlargement so the quality isn't good...but you can see the large resistor I am talking about.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited October 2010
    Well--one of my VTL's did the same thing last weekend,,check your bias resistors and cathode resistors as well--good luck and keep us posted.Was it my old anthem?

    Start checking for the obivious--resistors etc.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Ern Dog
    Ern Dog Posts: 2,237
    edited October 2010
    Same thing happened in my Rogue Audio amp and the culprit was a blown fuse, which was an easy fix.

    Good luck
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited October 2010
    You should have a service manual for that unit in the first place. At least request the schematics from SF or hit PCX for advice. It sounds like a bad series resistor or voltage regulator as I had the same issue happen to me when trying to bias another brand of amplifier. It blew my whole, rare quad in the expensive learning process. I'm sure you won't ask me for help so good luck...there's a host of other folks that can help you.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,663
    edited October 2010
    need to know the colors on it.
    clr_code.gif
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited October 2010
    You might want to check your tube socket for that particular tube. If it's not gripping the pins well, try tightening them. Sometimes a loose connection will prevent the tube from biasing properly.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • thsmith
    thsmith Posts: 6,082
    edited October 2010
    dorokusai wrote: »
    You should have a service manual for that unit in the first place. At least request the schematics from SF or hit PCX for advice. It sounds like a bad series resistor or voltage regulator as I had the same issue happen to me when trying to bias another brand of amplifier. It blew my whole, rare quad in the expensive learning process. I'm sure you won't ask me for help so good luck...there's a host of other folks that can help you.

    I have a schematic for the Amp 1 if you need it.
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,033
    edited October 2010
    Yes, I need one. You still have my addy?
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited October 2010
    I do think you could of fired a resistor but, my first thought was the bias pot is dirty. May need to work pot up and down a few times to clean up some, do this while its off. Some electronic spray cleaner could help also.

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • thsmith
    thsmith Posts: 6,082
    edited October 2010
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Yes, I need one. You still have my addy?

    Sent you a PM with my email address.
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,033
    edited October 2010
    Cool deal, but I did not receive it. How much do I owe you for shipping/mailing?
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited October 2010
    Remember, bias is actually the negative voltage applied to a tube's control grid which allows the tube to stay within its operational parameters for your specific amplifier.

    Too much bias, the amp will sound like crap. Too little, tubes can overheat and fail, taking output transformers and other parts in the circuit with them.

    I would never turn the bias all the way down, I always start in the middle, or on the high side and step it back slowly.

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • doctor r
    doctor r Posts: 837
    edited October 2010
    Russ is correct, but there seems to be a constant misinterpretation of bias. Many people end up measuring the bias "current" through a drop resistor and employ Ohm's Law :eek: to convert volts to amps. This is not the same as bias "voltage" Russ has properly defined. When you increase the bias voltage on the grid you decrease the electron flow through the grid and lower the bias "current" on the plate. My impression is that most people adjust down the bias "current" and tend to state they turned the bias down when what they actually did was to turn the bias "voltage" up. With the different interpretational liberties taken in many posts, on many sites, by many individuals, about bias it is no wonder most people are confused about it.:(

    Rick

    PS I have a lightly used matched quad of the GL KT77s that I would part with if you are in need. PM me.
    integrated w/DAC module Gryphon Diablo 300
    server Wolf Alpha 3SX
    phono pre Dynamic Sounds Associates Phono II
    turntable/tonearms Origin Live Sovereign Mk3 dual arm, Origin Live Enterprise Mk4, Origin Live Illustrious Mk3c
    cartridges Miyajima Madake, Ortofon Windfeld Ti, Ortofon
    speakers Rockport Mira II
    cables Synergistic Research Cables, Gryphon VPI XLR, Sablon 2020 USB
    rack Adona Eris 6dw
    ultrasonic cleaner Degritter
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • thsmith
    thsmith Posts: 6,082
    edited October 2010
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Cool deal, but I did not receive it. How much do I owe you for shipping/mailing?

    Sent you a PM again
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • ohskigod
    ohskigod Posts: 6,502
    edited October 2010
    hmmm, hate to derail, but if i have an Anthem amp 1 and literally have no idea what you are talking about, is that bad? Had mine for years, ran at all of Polkfest, sounded fantastic. never touched these "bias pots" of which you speak.

    heck, they run on the same Tubes Russ sent with the amp.
    Living Room 2 Channel -
    Schiit SYS Passive Pre. Jolida CD player. Songbird streamer. California Audio Labs Sigma II DAC, DIY 300as1/a1 Ice modules Class D amp. LSi15 with MM842 woofer upgrade, Nordost Blue Heaven and Unity interconnects.

    Upstairs 2 Channel Rig -
    Prometheus Ref. TVC passive pre, SAE A-205 Amp, Wiim pro streamer and Topping E50 DAC, California Audio Labs DX1 CD player, Von Schweikert VR3.5 speakers.

    Studio Rig - Scarlett 18i20(Gen3) DAW, Mac Mini, Aiyma A07 Max (BridgedX2), Totem Mites
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited November 2010
    Lou,

    Does your Anthem have power tubes or is it just tubed on the input? Or do you have big tubes and little tubes or just little tubes?

    RT1
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • thsmith
    thsmith Posts: 6,082
    edited November 2010
    Anthem Amp 1 has El34 power tubes, 12AU7 on the input. There is a 12AX7 but not sure what its purpose is.
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited November 2010
    OK, I thought the Anthem had a cover on it, not a cage....ehhh, it was Polkfest....most of things I saw were observed altered......that rig sounded great until H9 put that adcom thingy in there...........hehehehehehe

    I know Anthem has some hybrid with just tubed input.

    well seems skigod's holds bias........

    RT1
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,033
    edited November 2010
    No doubt.

    I'm still here fellas, just busy as all get up. Still haven't had a chance to diagnose what's wrong. THSmith, my freakin' computer wants to know what program created the file you sent. I have to be honest....I have not one clue how to find that out.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • ohskigod
    ohskigod Posts: 6,502
    edited November 2010
    reeltrouble1 wrote: »
    OK, I thought the Anthem had a cover on it, not a cage....ehhh, it was Polkfest....most of things I saw were observed altered......that rig sounded great until H9 put that adcom thingy in there...........hehehehehehe

    I know Anthem has some hybrid with just tubed input.

    well seems skigod's holds bias........

    RT1

    the anthem amp 2 is a hybrid, the Anthem Amp 1 (Tom and I) is all tube (big and little ones) your right though, it's odd in that unless you look at it from the top you'd never know. Sounds awesome so I aint touching it. should have had one of you tube loons show how to bias for the future.


    and H9 did look disheartened when he blind A/B's his Adcom D/A and the CAL cd player straight and I picked the CD player straight....lol
    Living Room 2 Channel -
    Schiit SYS Passive Pre. Jolida CD player. Songbird streamer. California Audio Labs Sigma II DAC, DIY 300as1/a1 Ice modules Class D amp. LSi15 with MM842 woofer upgrade, Nordost Blue Heaven and Unity interconnects.

    Upstairs 2 Channel Rig -
    Prometheus Ref. TVC passive pre, SAE A-205 Amp, Wiim pro streamer and Topping E50 DAC, California Audio Labs DX1 CD player, Von Schweikert VR3.5 speakers.

    Studio Rig - Scarlett 18i20(Gen3) DAW, Mac Mini, Aiyma A07 Max (BridgedX2), Totem Mites
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • thsmith
    thsmith Posts: 6,082
    edited November 2010
    treitz3 wrote: »
    No doubt.

    I'm still here fellas, just busy as all get up. Still haven't had a chance to diagnose what's wrong. THSmith, my freakin' computer wants to know what program created the file you sent. I have to be honest....I have not one clue how to find that out.

    It was PDF when it left here.
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,033
    edited November 2010
    Well, thank you [again]. I guess my computer had issues the day I tried to open it. Daggum computers.....

    It opened fine just now. Now if I could just find the time to dive into her and see what's goin' on.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,033
    edited November 2010
    Well, I finally had a chance to get a hold of a human at Anthem amp company. They do not service them anymore. However, he did say that there was a company in Connecticut that will work on it [no thanks].

    He will be sending me the service manual via e-mail along with the schematics I already have, thanks to thsmith. If I get the e-mail in time, I'll try to dive into her this weekend.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter