Two Different Subjects, I Post here.

VR3

Hello,
As most of you know, my audio adventure is reaching a close. The next upgrades are important to the system. So I am seeking advice. If you are going to comment on my wire, and tell me I need to update that, Please refrain - It is on my list. Thank you. Now back on the subject.

I am reaching the end, and I have 3 things I need to add. I do not have long to do it. I have decided on them all, I mainly need a order to go by.

1) SVS PCi 20-45 or w/e it is.
2) Polk Audio CSi40
3) IXOS Wire/Cable

The main reason I am getting a preamp is my Pioneer Elite is sending a dirty signal to my amps and my amps are clipped at very high volumes when they shouldnt. The PE only sends the main amp (545) a dirty signal, the 535 stays clean. This has brought a concern to me, and I have decided to go with a preamp.
I plan to Buy a SVS, to see the hype, and I want one. If it is the best Subwoofer company out there, I want a piece of the action. I plan to wire my M&K the Polk way to my Mains. So the Mains can act as a full range speaker, this will also make it easier to blend the mains with the SVS. IMO, of course.
I plan to get a CSi40 mainly because CS245i is the weakest speaker in my system. It is truly a lame speaker. I may keep it if the Adcom I just ordered can bring it to life. But right now, it is on my list to replace. It is just not good to me.
IXOS wire, for obvious reasons - I need new wire. Ha-Ha.

Let me know If I have this in the right order, and or something I possibly could not need. Please don't tell me the SVS is overkill for my room! LoL! Thats why I am buying it! lol! All opinions are welcome, all snide, moronic comments are not. If you plan to start a rucus, refrain. Thank you.

dthomps

I think you are definitely headed in the right direction with getting a preamp. Just wondering if you knew the GTP-600 is just a Pro Logic unit?
Good luck man, I am getting jealous of all your Adcom gear
Mike

VR3

Yeah, I am aware it is a very basic preamp. However, I honestly don't care! HaHa! I don't have the money to blow. 300 bucks, I won't complain. Besides, as much movies as I watch (Which I watch in prologic anyways), It won't kill me. Thanks about the amps.

Dr. Spec

I second the issue on the pre-amp. It is not Adcom's strength.

I seriously doubt the PE is sending a "dirty" signal anywhere. It's a fine AVR with decent specs in the pre/pro stage. Could you please expound on this perception?

Regardless, if you are going to buy a "universal" pre/pro, I'd at least get one that did DD and DTS 5.1. If you are going for a strictly music pre/pro, then it doesn't matter.

Doc

VR3

Well, at around 103-105db, the 545 goes down to hell. (That is in 2 channel). In 5 channel stereo, its even worse, it even cut off at times. However, at the same time - the 535, the LED's are not even lighting up. Which makes me believe it isn't the amps, but is the receiver. I switched from Ratshack cables to LAB cables. Little less distortion, but not much difference. The thing is, it dosn't really matter (I never listen that loud, just pushing my system to find its limits). If the preamp is not the way to go, I won't get it. I am just looking for a solution why a 100 watt amp would distort pushing a 125 watt Polk speaker. I mean, really. The thing is, the only channel distorting is the main channel. The surround amp, is not distorting what so ever. Anyways, if It is not nessicary to change, I will skip right over the preamp.

dthomps

The preamp is a good idea and I am sure you will be happy with one, and it will also be cool for you to have a real seperates system. The point I brought up was the fact that a DPL only surround signal uses signal processing to derive the center and surround channels as opposed to being descrete like Dolby Digital and DTS and the like. Have you enabled your current setup for digital sound yet?

I don't think that Doc's statement was really a yay or nay about the pre, just saying that you might want to look elsewhere for the problem you are having.
Hope this helps. Mike

VR3

Originally posted by dthomps
Have you enabled your current setup for digital sound yet?
Hope this helps. Mike

Yep, I dunno - When i get the money, I will post back for opinions.

RuSsMaN

Hey, Tinglefuts, have you swapped amps?

VR3

Nope, didn't do that - I'm not home enough right now to worry about it. When the other amp arrives. That will be the main amp. The 545 will be the center amp.

faster100

agreed, maybe it is the amp, they are used and from e-bay, you never know???? I would think the PE would be more then capable of this task.. maybe also it is your speakers? Ok so they say they can handle 125 but how old are they? and do you really think the small 35's could handle 125? maybe so or maybe with distortion, try those same amps and receiver on a larger set of speakers at 105 db and see what it sounds like. although those are great speakers they are only bookshelfs... 105 db seems to be pushing your limits and on what kind of music?? I am sure its not classical. and yes i think that makes a difference weather its hard rock or top 40's LOL anyways my 3 cents for what it's worth

VR3

Yes, I believe it could be the amp to. I am not sure. I hope it is not. Well, if my RT25i can take 105, I hope the RT35i can to! lol! All the speakers were purchased new from Crutchfield 1.5 years ago. The rt35i's were bought off ebay, brand new in box, never used. I am the first owner. I dont know, I will report back when I change amps (etc). If it dosn't go away, I dont know. It clipped on Linkin Park. In the end, where he goes dosnt even matter, or w/e. In that part, it reached a dark orange and went into protection. It could be an amp problem. Oh well, with diagnouse later on. I am at my Dad's. Not much I can do 5 miles away from my room.

VR3

If I had money to blow, I would buy the RT55i. I wish I had bought that speaker to begin with. However, the RT55i or any other large speaker is to much for my room. It will have to make due until I move out. By the way, before i get the turn it down lecture. I listen to music at 96-98db most of the time. Even then I dont listen more than 30 minutes. My system stays on at abouy 50-60db all day. OH YEAH! The distortion gets ALOT worse when the light is on. When the light is on, it flickers, dims, and the LEDS go insane. What does that mean?

VR3

Makes no sense, wouldnt the 60 watt amp die before the 100 watt amp?????????

pjdami

Agreed...

It's not the Pioneer Elite that you are using as a preamp that is causing your problem. You are most likely running out of juice on your amps.

105 db dude and clipping your speakers...not good. Turn it down..You are fortunate not to have blown a tweet yet.

P.

pjdami

Mx,

How are you running your AC power lines from your amps? Straight to the wall outlet / power strip / surge protector?

You aren't running off the switched outlet on the back of the Pioneer if it has one? Just a thought. Amps are best plugged straight into a power source.

Have you changed anything else recently?

P.

VR3

I have no plugs near where my amps are, so I ran a 0 guage exstention cord from 10 feet away to its current position. Then I plugged a component surge protector to that, and its all plugged in there.

gidrah

Switch and move your amps. Are they well ventilated? If you must use an extension cord (that 0 awg must be a 1" in diameter sight to see) try sneaking it to another circuit and divide your amps. Of course if you're truly just running out of power this wouldn't help that much. Between that and turning it down is in my opinion your solution. I'm sure that PE is doing just fine. And under normal circumstances so would be the Adcoms or your old M&K drivers.

E-mail me. You non PM/E-mail accepting person you.

VR3

The adcoms are well ventelated. Although they are stacked - they are in open air, and not in a cabinet. So I do not see how they would be overheated. They have plenty of breathing room. Nah the exstention cord is like 5-8 gauge. I have the 545 plugged directly into the exstention cord. The 535, receiver, and M&K are plugged into the component. Major power is flowing through my walls. I mean when I crank it to 96-98-100db. My lights dim, flicker - everything. Especially on heavy bass tracks. All that old gear, not energy conservative. Weeeeeeeee! My E-Mail address is Vr3mxxtrmespl2k3@hotmail.com -- I don't give out my E-Mail address anymore because I received an E-Mail from someone that knew my name and it freaked the sheat out of me. I would run another exstention cord to another circuit, but all plugs within that side of the room are use. If I were to run another one, it would need to be 5-8 gauge, and it would have to be atleast 20-25 feet *unless I want to run it across the middle of my floor* haha.
None of my electronics are plugged directly into the wall, their either plugged into the end of an exstention cord, or into a component. 3 outlets don't go very far in my room. 1 outlet - phone, then the exstention cord to my amps, which is then plugged to a component. Then the other outlet has another component plugged in, where most of my computer equipment is plugged in. Then on the other outlet, I have a light, and my scanner. Then there other kinds of exstention cords. Anyways, my room is a maze of wire. Those old M&K drivers blow eggs. They distort at 95db.

burdette

Sid's quote:
"The main reason I am getting a preamp is my Pioneer Elite is sending a dirty signal to my amps and my amps are clipped at very high volumes when they shouldnt. The PE only sends the main amp (545) a dirty signal, the 535 stays clean. "


As several people have pointed out, the Pioneer is most likely NOT the culprit. On your path to audio wisdom, this is a learning opportunity for you if you cease it. You assumed what the problem was without really checking, and the assumption you made (i.e. that your PE was sending TWO different signals, and one of them was dirty) certainly wasn't the most obvious or logical place to start. Start with the simplest explanation that would explain the problem, check that, THEN move on to other possibilities.

In the future, that sort of thinking will mean you do things like check speaker wires and basic connections, for example, before you start removing drivers or opening amps or whatever.

VR3

I did check the wires. Infact, i switched wires. I changed where it was plugged in. I did many things before thinking the PE was the culprit. My first thought was it was the Ratshack cables. So I switched them with LAB cables. The problem did not go away. it slightly decreased, but did not cease. So then I switched where it was plugged in. Like before, decreased, but did not cease. I then checked the connections, everything was tight - etc. I also noticed the louder the CD was recorded, the more distortion was aparent. Same when the light was on, when it was on the distortion gradually increased. Also when I switched the 5 chanel stereo the distortion sky rocketed. I mean it went from Yellow to a bright Orange. So it has come down to the PE. I will switch amps this weekend when I go home. If the problem stays at the mains, I am going to assume it is the PE.

Note to the Disclaimer - I don't listen to music more than 10 minutes at 102-103db. I listen to music at 96-98db possibly a hour out of the day. The rest of the day it is on 50-60db. -- Disclaimer closed.

By the way, I havn't opened/taken out the drivers out of my Polks, and I have not opened a receiver or amps. Where did you get that?

burdette

Good to hear you went through that whole process in your hunt for the problem.. obviously the point I was pointing out to you is already on your mind.

As for opening amps, etc, I didn't "get that" anywhere, at least not applied to you. I was speaking in general terms regarding problem solving. We do get posts here by people with problems and their very first thought is the MOST complicated thing it could be rather than starting with the most simple. You didn't mention that you'd started with simpler solutions, so I didn't know.

I'm still surprised your conclusion was the PE, but my level of surprise is hardly relevant.

VR3

Hey I am new to seperates. I am not sure what causes what. Haha! I just know it is a low/mid class receiver with low/mid class in/outputs. I have very little problems believing it could be the problem. The reason I believe it is the PE

Is the fact, at the same volume, with the Surrounds on which the 535 pushes. The 535's LEDs do not even light. Their not even flickering. However, the 545 which runs the mains is going to hell. It also depends on what is going on in the song, it is like it is receiving a signal that is dirty or distorted or w/e. Oh well, I was in the mood that day to boom the walls and rattle my ear drums. I do not normally listen to 5 channel stereo or that loud. I'm mainly a 2 channel person at 96-98db. That works best for me when I am in the mood to listen to music. But this weekend I will switch the amps and see if the 545 clips running the surrounds.

RuSsMaN

Hey Tinglefuts, you swap the amps yet?

VR3

Hey Russ, I am at my Dad's. I am 5 miles away from my rig. I said I will do it this weekend. CHILL!:cool:

pjdami

Hey Trey,

Definitely swap the amps and see what happens. I would also disconnect all amps and use the receiver's amps to see what happens too.

It is remotely possible that it could be your preamp stage although I would find this hard to believe. Your PE is only a few months old and problems usually occur within the first two weeks with electronics 95% of the time. Your PE could be defective (that would suck eggs like you say). By switching to your receiver and if it plays clean through your receiver amps .. you rule out the preamp. Same thing when you swap amps just to confirm.

I do tend to agree though why the higher power amp is distorting before the lesser powered amps is baffling. You don't have your left and right mains boosted in gain on the receiver by chance do you like +8 db or something? What are your calibrations set at for all of your speakers?

P.

VR3

The SPL meter said to set the Center to 4+ (Receiver), Surrounds to -1 (535), and mains on 2+ (545). The SPL meter said to put it there. It hasn't been different on 3 different readings, so I just left it there. When I get my other Adcom which should arrive in 2 weeks, I will recalibrate and report back. But I don't see how 2+ will send a 100 watts clean to distortion world.

pjdami

But I don't see how 2+ will send a 100 watts clean to distortion world.

I agree here. +2 db shouldn't be a problem.

I think by going back to your basic receiver running your speakers with the receiver amps will tell you a lot. It can eliminate the preamp and then you can focus on amp or power supply issues.

I still wager its a bum amp though or you're just asking too much from it.

P.

VR3

I don't see how I am asking to much from it though. That is the problem. The 60 watt 535, it hangs in and laughs at my Polks like their a cow sleeping and a 4 year old is curious and tips it over with a finger. Whats the child gonna do? cry? no its gonna laugh. Thats what the Adcom does to my Polks. The 545, now its the cow, its hurt at 103-105db. 100 watt amp, that is clean can push a 125 watt speaker that will take clean or dirty watts. There is no reason it shouldn't. I hope it is not the amp, because that is alot of money. I will work on it when I get home this weekend and tell you what I find. Could it be the fuse in the amp???

VR3

Note to the Disclaimer - I don't listen to music more than 10 minutes at 102-103db. I listen to music at 96-98db possibly a hour out of the day. The rest of the day it is on 50-60db. -- Disclaimer closed. - Vr3

VR3

My Other amp is on it's way. I might as well wait on it before I move amps around. Because I plan to use it on my Mains since it has 2 sets of terminals for 2 pairs of speakers. I plan to use the 545 on the center, since centers seem to be the wattage users. I plan to get a CSi40, so the 545 will need to be there. I will report back when that Amp arrives. Think you all for your help and input!

Hey Noggin!
You said the GFA-535 is a legand. Why exactly. You said it is a dual mono?? What exactly does that mean, people have explained it to me but I have yet to completely understand. It has 2 power supplies or whatever? Why did they make the GFA 535 better than the GFA 535 II??

RuSsMaN

ATC, you are correct, a fuse is meant to 'break' the circuit on overload, thus preventing damage to other components.

Mx, I *think* it is true dual-mono, hence it CANNOT be bridged. Series 2, II, 3, v4, etc etc, sometimes a compromise over the original, sometimes an improvment.

I have original Advent Legacy's, the series II speaker went from a silk/fabric soft dome, to a mylar one. A downgrade imho. Series 2,3,4, mk2,3,4 isn't always *better*. Follow?

George Grand would be the only person I know to ask about the 411 on the original Adcom 535, and the latter models.

Cheers,
Rooster