Dac info wanted

polkfarmboy

I was thinking of buyin a dac under $400

Are older high end dacs not as good as current cheap dacs

I am lost on what dac to buy

steveinaz

DAC's haven't changed much in the last 6 years, so I'd say find a older high-end DAC. If you could bump your budget up to about $650, you'd probably be in range for a Bel Canto or Benchmark thats a few years old....

carvcom

I picked up a used Adcom GDA-700 off the bay for under $250 & I love it, made a world of difference.
In fact, GDA-600 are going for around $150 now & are highly thought of around here.

heiney9

carvcom wrote: »

I picked up a used Adcom GDA-700 off the bay for under $250 & I love it, made a world of difference.
In fact, GDA-600 are going for around $150 now & are highly thought of around here.

They are, especially for the $$$. If you like a little DIY project you can upgrade the 600 for less than $200 to sound fantastic. I did, and not only was the mod fun but it sounds awesome. It's a great foundation to begin with and with some modern op-amps and new caps in key area's it's a nice piece.

H9

Toolfan66

So does a external DAC work well with a SACD player as well?? This is one thing that has confused me as I would like to try an external DAC. I think I can use the DAC in my CD player as an external DAC if I remember right..

dorokusai

Cambridge Audio DAC Magic. It's better than the Adcom's I've heard. H9's DIY suggestion isn't a bad idea at all if you want to get into that area.

Face

TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »

So does a external DAC work well with a SACD player as well?? This is one thing that has confused me as I would like to try an external DAC. I think I can use the DAC in my CD player as an external DAC if I remember right..

You can use an external DAC with a SACD player, but you can only export the redbook layer via the digital output. IIRC, only DCS or Esoteric have an multi-piece setup that can work with SACD.

heiney9

dorokusai wrote: »

Cambridge Audio DAC Magic. It's better than the Adcom's I've heard. H9's DIY suggestion isn't a bad idea at all if you want to get into that area.

The DIY isn't too difficult but you have to want to do that sort of thing. Working on the Adcom board is a bit tedious because the parts, traces and holes are very small. It takes some patience and planning. There's a great step by step by myself and George Daniel as well as our guide Fred (FTGV) who we couldn;t have done without.

I'm looking to replace my AMC DAC8 in the office/computer rig and I've been looking at the Cambridge DAC Magic. I'm not doing another Adcom mod because I want something different. I use the modded Adcom in the main rig and it's a superb sounding unit now.

H9

sm88

dorokusai wrote: »

Cambridge Audio DAC Magic. It's better than the Adcom's I've heard. H9's DIY suggestion isn't a bad idea at all if you want to get into that area.

This is precisely the DAC I've been considering at that price point. There are some other i'm interested in but they are much more expensive, a used DAC magic is ~$300.

A DAC is a piece of digital equipment. Think of what a $1000 computer 15 years ago could do versus a $1000 computer now. While I do think "old is gold" applies to quite a few different parts of a speaker system, I don't believe the digital realm is one of them considering the advancement of microchip based technology.

heiney9

sm88 wrote: »

This is precisely the DAC I've been considering at that price point. There are some other i'm interested in but they are much more expensive, a used DAC magic is ~$300.

A DAC is a piece of digital equipment. Think of what a $1000 computer 15 years ago could do versus a $1000 computer now. While I do think "old is gold" applies to quite a few different parts of a speaker system, I don't believe the digital realm is one of them considering the advancement of microchip based technology.

That's a double edged sword. Because you can have the best microchip going in a poorly executed design, mainly the analog section, with cheap op-amps and it will sound worse than yesterday's micro chips in a well designed unit with a great analog section and decent op-amps.

There haven't been that many advances in micro-chips that influence sound or conversion. Dac's live and die by the power supply and analog section. I would take a 15 year old Monarchy DAC with the legendary BB PCM63 chipset and it's wonderful analog section over the latest chipset and a poor analog section with a poor power supply. No contest.

That being said, for your budget the Cambridge is certainly a contender.

H9

sm88

I agree on those points but I would rather select a newer product but do diligence to find a company which executes a design well. I'm not one to think that companies are out to make a bad product, though they certainly cut corners if you do research into the designs there are good options to be had. DAC's back then were strictly for the sources of the day, CD players, there is now a world beyond 44 khz so keep that in mind as well.

Another one I missed out on but did look into was the PS Audio Digital Link III with Cullen upgrades. A review put the PS above the DAC Magic, and another review put the Cullen upgraded PS far above the standard model, and into competition with some very expensive units. Worth a look, the one I missed was for $600

dorokusai

sm88 wrote: »

This is precisely the DAC I've been considering at that price point. There are some other i'm interested in but they are much more expensive, a used DAC magic is ~$300.

A DAC is a piece of digital equipment. Think of what a $1000 computer 15 years ago could do versus a $1000 computer now. While I do think "old is gold" applies to quite a few different parts of a speaker system, I don't believe the digital realm is one of them considering the advancement of microchip based technology.

Just a recent observation. I picked up the Cambridge Audio and Bryston at the same time and found the CA to be every bit as good as the Bryston. YMMV.

pearsall001

Check out a used Music Hall dac25.2. I think you can find one in your budget. I bought one new to add a tube into my system & also it's a perfect piece to tinker with.

The stock unit sounded very, very good but swapping out the tube & op-amps has raised it's performance to a whole new level. I don't know what your plans are about any DIY projects but I highly recommend this dac.

heiney9

I just remembered, for me the DAC Magic is out of the running because of the wall wart power supply it comes with. I'm not paying close over $400 for a unit that uses a wall wart.

H9

cstmar01

what CDP are you pairing the DAC with? or are you going to be using the USB feature?

steveinaz

It's my opinion that if you're going to make the jump to an external DAC, go big. My reasoning is this; my DAC was $1595 (and considered a "budget" DAC), and although the improvement is worth the money, it IS relatively subtle in how it improves things. I can't imagine a cheap DAC doing much of anything over a good $600-$800 standalone CD player.

Again, just my opinion and my observations on a highly rated/regarded DAC. Of course there may be giant killers out there, such as the Cambridge---but this is an exception, not the rule.

Erik Tracy

steveinaz wrote: »

It's my opinion that if you're going to make the jump to an external DAC, go big. My reasoning is this; my DAC was $1595, and although the improvement is worth the money, it IS relatively subtle in how it improves things. I can't imagine a cheap DAC doing much of anything over a good $600-$800 standalone CD player.

Again, just my opinion and my observations on a highly rated/regarded DAC. Of course there may be giant killers out there, such as the Cambridge---but this is an exception, not the rule.

+1 to this, but would also add that big cost won't always equate to 'better' because....different DACs sound different....:eek:.

I went this route myself thinking a 'better' DAC (Bel Canto DAC2) used w/ my Oppo83 for 2-channel would sound better than my standalone CA 640c V2 CDP.

Did the whole level matching and identical ICs and source CDs to do a real-time A/B and to me....I still preferred the CA over the mid-priced external DAC - because I heard a difference and didn't like the presentation the Bel Canto imparted.

Get your ears on as many DACs as you can - listen, then decide for yourself.

Cassidy

I just ordered a Maverick Audio Tube Magic D1 DAC.

http://www.mav-audio.com/

You may want to check it out. It will be my first DAC so I'm no expert by any means. I intend to use it in my PC rig.

steveinaz

FWIW, I found the Bel Canto DAC2 (using my CEC as a transport) to be the sonic equal of my Benchmark DAC1 (first generation) w/the same transport--but the CEC was better as a transport than any DVD player I've tried with my DAC; those being a Denon 2910, Oppo....er, ah can't remember the model (not BluRay), and my current Panasonic BluRay. All of which sounded soft, bloaty, and veiled in comparison to the CEC. But I agree Erik 100%, it's something you've got to get your own ears on to really see if the investment is worth it.

...and like anything--it's about what you like. Some like soft and bloaty, some like precision detail, some like something in-between.

MillerLiteScott

I have a slightly modded Maverick Audio D1 DAC in my main rig right now but it is the center of my computer rig do I have been looking for another budget DAC to put in my main rig. This Beresford 7520 DAC has gotten some good reviews. Has anyone heard this DAC? It does have a wall wart power supply.

Scott

cstmar01

Also DACs can sound different in the way you use them. Some DACs the USB will sound different than if you used a optical ect.

If I'm spending 600 or so on a CDP I would normally want to spend more on a external DAC because spending less on the DAC IMO wouldn't make the most difference. Also there are different kinds of DAC's. There are NOS non oversampling, and over sampling ect and all can sound different. Also look to see what DAC chip they are using, such as burbrown, ect ect and get your ears on some different ones and see what you like.

debussyj

I've got the DacMagic in one setup. I have it connected to my Mac Mini music server and I also have the PS Audio DAC in my 2 channel setup connected to my Wadia ITransport. I love them both. The DacMagic doesn't disappoint and I enjoy messing around with the filters on the fly. It's fun! DJ

sm88

It's hard to tell from what chip they are using unless you can compare it to other DAC's unfortunately. Burr Brown (Texas Instruments now I believe?) makes some great chips, but they also make a lot of cheap budget chips you find in receivers, can't count on just a name since they supply so many. How do you like the PS Audio vs the DAC Magic, Bussy? I'm still shopping for a DAC once I sell off all of my excess gear

debussyj

Well, first off the DacMagic is on my HT system, which is driven by a Marantz SR-9600 with full LSI setup, 15's, center, rears. I've got an SVS PC-12 cylinder sub with this system. The on board Cirrus DACs are not too shabby on the Marantz but a little on the dryer side. However, I prefer the Wolfson DACS in the DacMagic. Nice bass extension a bit more articulate and warmer. I like warm sound. The PS Audio is on my 2 channel system, which is comprised of Acoustat 2 + 2 electrostatic speakers (which can be very unforgiving, especially with bad recordings), I've got an Audible Illusions Modulus 3 tube preamp (with some nice Amperex tubes) and driving the whole rig are my bridged Adcom GFA-555's (Pass design). I don't have a sub on this system. Trust me you don't need it! I find the PS audio to be pretty amazing on the bottom end (kind of grabs you in the gut) and very revealing in the mids and highs. I bought it because I wanted the future option for the Cullen mods, etc. I'm telling you though, the DacMagic at it's price point has a pretty respectable sound. Hope I helped a bit. DJ

sm88

Thanks, my hope is to get one with the Cullen mods already preformed for around $600 like the one I missed out on. I also need a tube preamp, but that's another ball game entirely!

98Badger

debussyj wrote: »

I've got the DacMagic in one setup. I have it connected to my Mac Mini music server and I also have the PS Audio DAC in my 2 channel setup connected to my Wadia ITransport. I love them both. The DacMagic doesn't disappoint and I enjoy messing around with the filters on the fly. It's fun! DJ

I have also had both the DACmagic and PS Audio dIII in my setup. I agree with your comments for the most part. I find the PS audio brings out more detail, especially for percussion, but is a little "brighter" on the high frequencies. I like things about each and considering the price difference it's a tough call. I ordered the new Wyred4Sound Dac2 a few days ago, and can't wait to do a comparison. Most likely the Cambridge will be leaving my system.

Face

98Badger wrote: »

I ordered the new Wyred4Sound Dac2 a few days ago, and can't wait to do a comparison. Most likely the Cambridge will be leaving my system.

I would hope so!

organ

Hope I don't get flamed, but I personally prefer Non-oversample and filterless DACs. You can find them for around that price in the used market. I haven't seen them discussed much here.

dorokusai

I've been playing around with the Musical Fidelity M1DAC for a couple weeks....not too shabby.

sm88

98Badger wrote: »

I have also had both the DACmagic and PS Audio dIII in my setup. I agree with your comments for the most part. I find the PS audio brings out more detail, especially for percussion, but is a little "brighter" on the high frequencies. I like things about each and considering the price difference it's a tough call. I ordered the new Wyred4Sound Dac2 a few days ago, and can't wait to do a comparison. Most likely the Cambridge will be leaving my system.

Let me know the results!

polkfarmboy

I have read alot about the ps audio with the mods these past 2 nights and I'm steering towards the appealing low bass boost for my martin logan. Maybe its just what they need