Media Servers

cstmar01

Ok...did a little searching but didn't really find what I was looking for.

I've been thinking about doing this now for a bit because I think it would be something that could make things easier and faster and simple.

What I would like to do is create a server for my whole place that I could easily use a laptop to then stream any content such as movies, music, home video, pictures ect to any setup in my place. Right now I have 3 main area's that I would like to do this with.

Bedroom HT
Living room HT
and 2 channel room

I will probably add on a 2nd bedroom when I move next year as well (diff apartment then probably a house so add even more rooms). I just want a central location where I can have everything stored and be able to then stream it to each of those room easily and quickly.

I would still want all my records, CD's, and movies handy but just have this a back up to everything, and make life easier rather than having to search and find a CD or movie that somehow got misplaced, and would be helpful for all the other crap I have as well (pictures, home video ect).

Is there a simple way to do this, say a laptop and a server? Would I just need a video card with HDMI or VGA out on the laptop and then a sound card to stream that into a AVR or external DAC? and then just have a wireless network from the server to the laptop or is there an even simpler way?

I would want blue ray stored on the server as well so I would probably have to get a video card with HDMI out so that I am able to still get the lossless audio as well....

PS I would build the server myself with help from a friend whos really big into building PC's ect so thats not a problem and would prefer to do this way than buy something pre made...

ryanjoachim

Would I just need a video card with HDMI or VGA out on the laptop and then a sound card to stream that into a AVR or external DAC? and then just have a wireless network from the server to the laptop or is there an even simpler way?

Basically this. I took my wife's old computer, which had a 2.2ghz dual core cps and crappy vid card and turned it into a media server. Swapped out the card for a 4000 series ATI card, and use the HDMI output for video and sound to my receiver. My laptop and desktop both stream from it, and I use a handy program to control it over the network. No keyboard or mouse needs to be attached to the server.

As far as storing Blu-ray titles, you're going to need a LOT of space...depending on how you rip the movies. If you go with a standard MKV rip (which I recommend), then you're looking at anywhere from 6-12GB for a 1080p copy, which doesn't include menus or anything else...just the movie and soundtracks.

For full copies of Blu-ray titles...you're looking at 40GB a pop in some cases. Either way, I'd recommend a minimum of 3-4TB of storage space.

PrazVT

It sounds like you want a machine that will:

a) play an HTPC role in one room
b) share files on the LAN so you can connect a laptop to another HT system
c) possibly rip / store blu-ray movies

Any machine will be fine for the first 2 - you just need a decent video card whose HDMI port outputs both audio / video. You'd need to ensure that your laptop's hdmi out (or mini hdmi out) would support both audio and video output - a good number of 2009 models (my Thinkpad W500 included) do not.

If you plan to rip and encode blu-ray movies to either MKV or M2TS (for PS3), you will need something beefier than a Core 2 Duo / Core i5. Because otherwise, it'll take a long time to encode a 2hr movie @ 1080p h264.

I encode w/ a watercooled Core i7 @ 4.2Ghz and 12GB of RAM and ripping to end product takes about 4.5 hrs per movie. So that's something to think about as well. I use .m2ts (h264 + dolby digital 5.1) since the PS3 can natively handle those files, avoiding transcoding from the server.

Of course, if you're just ripping the main movie using AnyDVD HD, stripping out the stuff you don't need from the main .m2ts file with TSMuxer, you can play that file with VLC. The file will still be 15 - 30GB depending on the movie and the format of the video stream (mpeg2, h264, vc1).

So I agree with the 3-4TB storage as well.

ryanjoachim

Praz makes a good point about ripping. If you want to rip your movies in any decent time-schedule, you'll need a core i7 preferably (although there are AMD offerings that can handle it just as well, and for cheaper) and at least 4GB of ram (for Vista/XP) or 6-12GB for Win7.

Again, these are just preferences from my point of view.

BlueFox

Is it possible to copy a Blu-Ray movie? I thought it was like SACD and uncopyable.

Bobsama

Which are you thinking of specifically, OP? Media PC or (media) Server? The difference is the HTPC (Media PC) will be doing playback as well as, likely, storing it. A server will just store it.

You can copy a Blu-Ray movie if you break the DRM. Last I checked, Slysoft has a product, »AnyDVD HD«, which will allow you to crack Blu-Ray DRM and thus copy the BluRay. It's legally gray: it's similar to ripping your own CDs and DVDs. License laws are convoluted and the bottom line is that, so long as you don't toss it up on a torrent site, FTP or usenet, you'll never be important enough to prosecute.

Bobsama

anonymouse wrote: »

Personally, I'd never go the media PC (HTPC) way. You are not always going to watch on that HTPC since you want to share around the house, and you have a big, power hungry machine that has to be on all the time. Secondly, depending on the motherboard you choose, you may not get RAID redundancy built in. If I wanted a media PC, I'd still buy a dedicated NAS server and store my media there so I can share it without the PC being on. The DNS 323 for instance has a gigabit ethernet port and is plenty fast.

Grab a half-decent motherboard with onboard RAID or perhaps a Highpoint RocketRaid card (or a Dell--PEAC or something IIRC, RAID card) and a few hard drives. Toss in a modern processor, perhaps a dual-core, and, if you really want low-power, underclock it. Otherwise, it's <200W at load (unless you go insane with hardware choices), probably closer to 100-150W. The real reason to avoid a traditional HTPC would be for the added noise.

Anyways, an HTPC doesn't have to store all the media. I'd look at grabbing a decent gigabit switch for all the network-connected components. No point in storing Blu-Rays on a server if you can't stream it. After that, there are loads of little tweaks to increase network performance if necessary. I'd recommend, if you do go that route, to have one switch for high-bandwidth devices and a second switch (perhaps 10/100) to the rest of the network, so that you have headroom while streaming. Other options might include using multiple NICs to multiply bandwidth.

Depending on the size and composition of the library, optimally you'd use one hard drive for HD content and one for SD content. HD would be all your HD video (1080p & 720p) while SD would be everything else--all your regular DVDs and perhaps all your music (including 24/96). That'd let the hard drives track without being interfered.

PrazVT

I've been using AnyDVD HD for the last 2 years. It'll remove the protection and simply copy the entire directory structure to the hdd. Usually the largest .m2ts file is the main movie. Then you can MeGui to do the rest..


I agree with anonymouse on the NAS idea if you're simply sharing files and not actually running any media server software.

In terms of blu-ray encoding, how you want to handle the files is up to you. For movies under 2 hrs, I generally encode 24fps 1080p h264 + 640kbps Dolby Digital and target 8.5GB file sizes (so I can make an AVCHD disc on a dual layer DVD if I want later). For longer movies, I make 'em bigger.

But since you're not streaming to any particular device, mkv is fine and you can keep DTS.

BKSinAZ

Look up a product called 'Popcorn Hour'. You buy that and a NAS (Networked Access Storage) and that is basically all you need. Far better than turning a computer into a Media Server.... and better looking in the theater room.

PrazVT

Wow, that thing looks impressive spec-wise. Any idea on how reliable / smooth actual usage is? Otherwise, it looks like a NAS and the Popcorn hour would take care of pretty much all media needs.

Bobsama

anonymouse wrote: »

Admittedly I have not tried streaming HD content from my DNS 323. I use it strictly for streaming .flac files transcoded to .wav. Its processor can easily handle transcoding 2 files simultaneously for two different players in the house.

I have had no issues streaming .wav files from my server on a 100base-tx backbone. I've not tried DVD ISO's or HD MP4's or HD WMV's yet--I'll send those over for a short sample. What I really need to do is upgrade the server's storage and increase available bandwidth. No computer needs 1000mbit to the outside world, though having a 1000mbit switch for internal networking would be necessary.

cstmar01

Ok.

Well to really say what I want is a machine I can store everything on that then I could use my laptop hooked up to a system and have everything go from Sever-laptop-system.

That really is what I want. I want all my music, Movies, photos, videos, whatever to be stored on the server part as that way its in one location and all I have to move around from room to room is the laptop.

I didn't know the blue rays were that big, but I was suggested from a friend that I should look at the 3-4 Tetrabites for starters due to this.

Also may sound stupid...but if a DVD is stored in native format on the server is there then anyway to upcovert that via the laptop when you stream it to the system?

ryanjoachim

Drobo or LaCie NAS box is pretty much what you want. You can get anywhere from 4TB and up for storage, but what you choose is usually what you're stuck with. Swapping in larger hard drives isn't always a simple task, depending on what type of RAID you set up.

NAS are nice in their simplicity. You plug it in, turn it on, set up permissions...and you're done. They're a hassle when it comes to upgrading anything, but they should last you for a while without much trouble.

Home servers are nice in their complication. You need a good server OS, you need to set it up for permissions and streaming, as well as backup options, and keep up with updates. However, upgrading memory, storage, processor, etc...is very easy.

It really depends on what you want to do.

PrazVT

Agreed - depends on your interest / proficiency levels when it comes to running a media server. I don't think you necessarily need a server OS though. Mine simply runs Win 7 Pro, and I changed CPU bias to background services (ie. tversity, squeeze center, playon, etc.), set the power saving utility to auto (so the 4 cores are running on low power 99% of the time), and hdds to sleep when unused.

But again, it doesn't sound like you are actually "serving" to any DLNA devices. So the NAS makes more sense.

In the case of connecting the laptop to your system (either via the AVR or directly to your TV), I don't think there's any way to control upscaling since your TV will pretty much be a monitor. If you're using VLC to play 400p/480p content like DVDs, you can experiment with the various deinterlacing / post processing options. That helps sometimes.

BKSinAZ

PrazVT wrote: »

Wow, that thing looks impressive spec-wise. Any idea on how reliable / smooth actual usage is? Otherwise, it looks like a NAS and the Popcorn hour would take care of pretty much all media needs.

Image is as though you were watching the actual disk.
Look at a NAS by "Promise", unlimited upgradability.

cstmar01

Hmmm....

Well I forgot the name of the server software I was thinking about using but its will mesh with all formats, apple, windows, ect with no problems and its free. The name escapes me right now.

I don't mind something being a little bit more involved as long as I can get what I want out of it.

And I do watch blue rays often several times, so the questions of having them stored for me is a nice choice. I don't have to worry about having to find disc either ect. However for the main HT area I would probably still use a disc if possible, unless I was being lazy and didn't want to try and find the disc (sometimes things go missing ect).

Talking to a friend he stated that I might be better off just getting a nice PC desktop using it as a server and then still have it be there as a desk top...IDK...I guess I'm just confused as to what would be the best solution in this case.

I would like something affordable...now I paid 2K for my desktop about 5 years ago and it was AWESOME. Now its outdated, starting to kinda die slowly, and yeah....put in prospective my buddy got a quad core, with 4 gigs ram, amazing video card (forgot what but AWESOME) and paid only around 700 bucks from a guy that will do PC builds for next to nothing. Is 2K to me a lot for a PC yes, so when I think what my buddy got around 700 or so that seems like a good starting point.

ryanjoachim

Use your old computer as your server, and get a new computer. You'll need to spend maybe $200-300 to make your old computer "media-ready", but after that you should be good to go.

PrazVT

I would estimate ~$1200 +/- for a decent media encoding machine - b/c you'll want a Core i7 for sure. You could still use this as a media server though - just enable EIST and it'll run w/ reduced voltage / clock speed unless called upon to do some cpu intensive tasks.

For instance...

Core i7 860 (socket 1156) ~$200 [mild OC to ~3.6ghz will cut down on encode times]
Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD3 mobo ~$135
4GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 CAS 8 ~$94
ATI HD 5770 ~ $150 [just picked something]
2x Hitachi Deskstar 2TB ~$260
Corsair H50 liquid cooler ~ $80 (quiet, compact, cheap, effective - use 2 of 'em on my secondary boxes - not as good as my full blown WC setup..but better than air cooling to me).
Corsair modular 650W PSU ~ $120
Case / kb / mouse ~ $150 +/-

---

$1189

dkg999

My QNAP TS-459 Pro NAS was the best network investment I've made. Currently running 4TB of RAID storage using Samsung drives, it will go up to 8TB and then you can start connecting external storage. I'm currently using it to store FLAC files for a music server and digital photos. I've read on other forums that it works well supporting HT applications.