AVR vs Dedicated Amp power?

Strouty

I recently switched out my yamaha rx-v565 for a Harman Kardon avr 254 so I would have preouts. Neither receiver really had any issues powering my speakers (see sig), but eventually I'd like to upgrade to something in the Rti A line or perhaps tsi500s / monitor 70s and I'll be looking for good 2 or 3 channel amp for that (125+ wpc))

I've been itching to try out the preouts on the avr 254 but it's just not in my financial cards to pick up a decent amp anytime soon. However, I see adcom 535s (60wpc) all the time in the $100 range and I could probably swing that right now.

So my question is, considering I wouldn't really be picking up that much more power going with the gfa 535, is there any noticeable difference between 'AVR power' and 'dedicated amp power'? In my mind, it doesn't seem like there would be any difference since power is power, but I hear all the time the virtues of dedicated amps even at lower volume levels.

Pycroft

There is more to the amp then the 'power' fo it. I've found, in my short time in this hobby, that amps all sound different. Apart from providing clean power to the speakers, amps can also affect the sound in different ways. I'm sure people will make recommendations here. I have found that having a dedicated amp to power my speakers improves the sound over just the AVR, but how much is an individual thing and depends on the speakers, the amp, the room, etc. The best way to tell is to listen in your own space. I would look for a good used amp at a decent price, and try it out. Usually, if you get a good one, you can resell it easily and not lose much, if any money, and get to hear what it can do. Good luck on the search!

James

bluecomet

I think it really depends on the quality of your AVR. If your Yamaha was a RX-V3800 then I would not go the seperate amp route, unless you want to be in the 200+ watt range for future speakers. If you are looking for a relatively cheap 2 channel amp, I have a Yamaha MX 630 that would be an excellent upgrade for a 2 channel setup close to your price range. I believe the MX 630 has 135 watts at 8 ohms. Either way a good quality used amp would be a good step up.

EndersShadow

Strouty wrote: »

I recently switched out my yamaha rx-v565 for a Harman Kardon avr 254 so I would have preouts. Neither receiver really had any issues powering my speakers (see sig), but eventually I'd like to upgrade to something in the Rti A line or perhaps tsi500s / monitor 70s and I'll be looking for good 2 or 3 channel amp for that (125+ wpc))

I've been itching to try out the preouts on the avr 254 but it's just not in my financial cards to pick up a decent amp anytime soon. However, I see adcom 535s (60wpc) all the time in the $100 range and I could probably swing that right now.

So my question is, considering I wouldn't really be picking up that much more power going with the gfa 535, is there any noticeable difference between 'AVR power' and 'dedicated amp power'? In my mind, it doesn't seem like there would be any difference since power is power, but I hear all the time the virtues of dedicated amps even at lower volume levels.

The main difference is the total power that can be provided to the speakers. Most AVR manuals (but not the sites) list the power as X watts by x channels. However if you look at the manual that watt number is normally with only two channels driven. So if you drive all channels at the same time the wattage per channel is actually less than that number. So for example just because it lists that it can do 90 watts with 2 channels driven does not mean that with all 5 channels driven you will be getting 90x5. It is normally much less.

This is a result of it having a less powerful transformer and powersupply (this is however all relative to the specific AVR). Lots of the higher end AVR's (1k+) are now using much bigger and heavier powersupplys and transformers to ensure your getting the full listed wattage, but cheaper AVR's are still skimping on this to a degree (once again brand and model specific). Some members here and at AVSFORUM have actually gone from dedicated amps and pre's to one super beefy AVR as a result of the high end ones being built better than in the past.

A dedicated amp's wattage is normally listed with all channels driven. So it means that if its rated at 60 watts per channel you are actually getting a gauranteed 60x5. They also normally have beefier transformers and powersupplys (hence why they are massive and heavy). This results (at least in my case) in better performance/dynamics sound due to the speakers not having to fight as hard for their wattage.

So if you have a lower end reciever with a listed wattage of 60x5 and a dedicated amp with a wattage of 60x5 normally the dedicated amp will sound better and provide more power. The higher up the AVR ladder you climb the more likely you are to be dealing with diminised returns on this however.

Hope this didnt muddy up the waters for you too much.

mystik610

Strouty wrote: »

I recently switched out my yamaha rx-v565 for a Harman Kardon avr 254 so I would have preouts. Neither receiver really had any issues powering my speakers (see sig), but eventually I'd like to upgrade to something in the Rti A line or perhaps tsi500s / monitor 70s and I'll be looking for good 2 or 3 channel amp for that (125+ wpc))

I've been itching to try out the preouts on the avr 254 but it's just not in my financial cards to pick up a decent amp anytime soon. However, I see adcom 535s (60wpc) all the time in the $100 range and I could probably swing that right now.

So my question is, considering I wouldn't really be picking up that much more power going with the gfa 535, is there any noticeable difference between 'AVR power' and 'dedicated amp power'? In my mind, it doesn't seem like there would be any difference since power is power, but I hear all the time the virtues of dedicated amps even at lower volume levels.

Don't underestimate the AVR 254. HK rates their amps very conservatively. I wouldn't say its up to PAR with a separate amp, but it is an underrated, high current grunt it its own right.

Synergy a lot more times is more important than WPC....particularly with fairly efficient speakers like the RTi-A's. I used to drive my old RTi8's with HK gear and was very pleased with the results. On the other hand, I wouldn't dare drive anything from the RTi line with the EMO I'm using now, even with the extra wattage.

The very warm acoustic signature of HK gear is a perfect match for the bright signature of the RTi-A's. Unless you're looking at purchasing a full-range RTi-A tower like the A9's, I'd say the AVR254 is probably your best bet for the money.

Strouty

Thanks for all of the input and replies so far. I'm aware of the very loose standards that companies use to rate their receivers (my 50w x7 harman is definitely pumping out more juice then my old 90w x7 yamaha). Since my interest in the adcom is more for 2 channel music, let me rephrase my question. Say you have a AVR putting out 50w x2 of true power (I believe the avr254 probably gets pretty close to that) and you have a seperate amp that puts out 50w x2, is there any benefit of using the seperate amp? (besides that acoustic synergies that mystik commented on). The adcom 535 is rated fairly close to the avr254 for 2 channel operation, so I'm questioning if it would be worth it all or if I should just wait to get something more powerful.

Pycroft

Someone wise spoke to me about this in this way:

Think of the AVR as the all-in-one. It is the brains (Pre-amp), and body (Amp) of the system, and also the tuner. With a power amp, it's ONLY job is to provide power, and with a pre-amp, it's ONLY job is to process the sound. So, I choose to have the individual components do them seperately, because they can do their jobs better than if one unit had to do everythign. Of course, if you take the most basic power amp and compare it to a 5,000 dollar AVR, things may change, but I would think that a power amp would benefit you in the situation. I have the HK AVR 354, and it's great with the speakers, but the Parasound I'm using to power the fronts and center make them sound clearer and quite well defined.

James

cheif pontiac

I haven't heard the HK. I have heard enough AVR's, Yamaha, Sony ES, Pioneer Elite, Denon to tell you that they all sound different and that the Adcom will sound different than from an AVR or most other Amps for that matter. The 535 sounds different from the 545. As stated by others the only job of the Amp, is that, to be an Amp and it can do the job better. You should hear a noticeable different soundstage and better imagining with the Amp. maybe a more open sound and sounds you did not pick up before. Rather you like it or not is up to you. If you have a $125 to spare, a used 535 will be worth the money in the experience.

cfrizz

Here is another perspective. I originally had a 50wpc Rotel amp driving my RTA-8Ts. I switched over to a 110wpc Denon receiver, I couldn't detect a difference in sound. When I added a Parasound 205wpc via the Denons preouts, it was a night and day improvement.

You may or may not hear a clear distinct improvement by getting a lower powered amp. I have seen a lot of people get lowered powered amps & could't hear a difference. However most people do hear a difference with more wattage.

The only way you will know for sure is to get the amp and hear it for yourself.