Polk DSW Pro 600 vs. SVS PB12-NSB

dorokusai

I've read more negative things about Elemental Designs than I've read positive. Beings they're are other smaller companies like SVS/HSU, with a similar design philosphy and marketing execution, I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole.

Sherardp

One on sale if your close.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?homesubw&1288063641&/SVS-Sound-pb12-nsd-Subwoofer

BWilberg266

dorokusai wrote: »

I've read more negative things about Elemental Designs than I've read positive. Beings they're are other smaller companies like SVS/HSU, with a similar design philosphy and marketing execution, I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole.

Wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole is a bit strong.

It seems like the people that say stuff like this are the people that don't have, and haven't even listened to any eD equipment.

Yes there are some issues with lead times on some of their products but they are totally transparent about this and you always get a live person when you call if you do have any issues. If anything, having a huge waiting list on certain products should tell you something about how good their stuff really is. If people are ordering a sub knowing that it's a two month wait period before they get it means what they are getting must be pretty amazing. Especially when as you said, there are other small manufacturers that offer similar products that they wouldn't have to wait for.

Most of the negatives you read is from stuff a while back and they have been doing a lot to ensure they don't make the same mistakes.

Even Polk has their issues. No company is perfect, but these guys out in Iowa use superior materials, great bracing, custom woofer designs, and their products can match any other sub manufacturers stuff note for note, and usually top them IMO. Plus if there is an issue, like I said earlier, they are extremely easy to get ahold of and deal with.

packetjones

I agree with BWilberg266 on ED. I have heard a lot of good things about them. They have a long wait on their subs. There were a few amp issues previously but overall there are a lot of very happy customers. i would say they make a quality product for sure.

dorokusai

BWilberg266 wrote: »

Wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole is a bit strong.

It seems like the people that say stuff like this are the people that don't have, and haven't even listened to any eD equipment.

Yes there are some issues with lead times on some of their products but they are totally transparent about this and you always get a live person when you call if you do have any issues. If anything, having a huge waiting list on certain products should tell you something about how good their stuff really is. If people are ordering a sub knowing that it's a two month wait period before they get it means what they are getting must be pretty amazing. Especially when as you said, there are other small manufacturers that offer similar products that they wouldn't have to wait for.

Most of the negatives you read is from stuff a while back and they have been doing a lot to ensure they don't make the same mistakes.

Even Polk has their issues. No company is perfect, but these guys out in Iowa use superior materials, great bracing, custom woofer designs, and their products can match any other sub manufacturers stuff note for note, and usually top them IMO. Plus if there is an issue, like I said earlier, they are extremely easy to get ahold of and deal with.

As far as Polk Audio goes, I've never held back my opinion on their work in the subwoofer department, good or bad. I've heard eD subwoofers, they're nice but I also recall the problems they had awhile back. It was deeper than just CS. Sorry, it sticks out to me and there's a few other companies that do the same thing for the same set of prices so they're forgetable to me.

Whether they have addressed their issues or not doesn't matter to me, it's my wallet and I'm not likely to recommend them in the future. I read the same thing about Polk all the time and I can only argue the same point BW....it's usually with the same response I just gave you.

BWilberg266

Wasn't arguing with you dorok, just think both sides of every story deserve to be heard. I obviously like Polk or I wouldn't be here, and I wouldn't have it in my setup.

As packetjones said eD had amp issues in the past and I most definitely do not argue that fact. But things have gotten better and I'm just saying they deserve another look by those who are in the market for a new sub. It is only because of their recent improvements that I have become an owner of their equipment as of June, and I'm very happy with it.

I wouldn't expect you to recommend a company you haven't had a working experience with, and no one is saying that you have to open up your wallet to them, but I'd hope as a moderator you'd support even dealings on any given topic and be in favor of current and accurate evaluations. No need to keep trying to push me back because I'm saying eD's worth a second look these days.

Your entitled to say you're not a fan, and I'm entitled to say they're worth a shot. Just my opinion on the matter.

dorokusai

I know BW, just commenting. It's hard to get proper inflection in typed speech....no worries here. You should absolutely speak you rmind...we need more of that around here, just be careful...they attack in pairs. Unless it's just me, then I'm all alone it seems.

Gulfstrings

Whoa! This is good stuff! Thanks all!

Since starting this thread, I'm feeling neither of my two original options are going to be the best subs for music.

That said, the search is broadening to smaller, sealed boxes while still trying to stay within the $600 budget.

In addition to budget issues, I have to (make myself) remember we currently have two PSW111s in our system and whatever comes in to replace them is going to have to be noticably better performing.

Starting to wonder if my expectations (at this budget) are realistic ...

Dave

kuntasensei

Gulfstrings wrote: »

In addition to budget issues, I have to (make myself) remember we currently have two PSW111s in our system and whatever comes in to replace them is going to have to be noticably better performing.

Starting to wonder if my expectations (at this budget) are realistic ...

Dave

Honestly, I think any of the options named thus far would be a vast improvement over what you have now, so long as you properly integrate it.

BWilberg266

First off...good form Dorok...good form

Secondly, I agree that ALL subs that have been mentioned here will be a very big step up. The two PSW111's are fine, but all subs mentioned here are in a different class and would outdo those two subs by itself.

I think people sometimes get themselves too worked up on whether a sub is musical enough or not. I have a very "unmusical" ported A2-300 but if you have your settings right and don't set everything to 11 I find that I can get a great blend for music and it responds very well.

If you are leaning towards the SVS there is a PB12-NSD for sale on one of the emotiva forums at this link for $400 obo

Gulfstrings

It appears as though SVS has delayed fulfilling orders until late September or sometime in October. Their website's (SVS News) information section reads like they are experiencing some kind of delay in their supply chain/other developmental issues.

Have not been able to make phone contact today or yesterday.

Not sure what's happening and don't wish cuase an unwarranted alarm ... anyone closer to the situation?

Dave

EndersShadow

Gulfstrings wrote: »

It appears as though SVS has delayed fulfilling orders until late September or sometime in October. Their website's (SVS News) information section reads like they are experiencing some kind of delay in their supply chain/other developmental issues.

Have not been able to make phone contact today or yesterday.

Not sure what's happening and don't wish cuase an unwarranted alarm ... anyone closer to the situation?

Dave

They are switching amps from Bash to Sledge DSP-controlled digital amps throughout their entire lineup. I would assume that is why they are delaying orders at this point as they might not have enough of the new amp in stock.

They also have added a couple new subs to their lineup.

Gulfstrings

EndersShadow wrote: »

They are switching amps from Bash to Sledge DSP-controlled digital amps throughout their entire lineup. I would assume that is why they are delaying orders at this point as they might not have enough of the new amp in stock.

They also have added a couple new subs to their lineup.

Thanks, appreciate the info. Is this 'switch' a good thing?

Dave

rnp614

I can attest to eD as an owner. This sub rips apart my modest 700sqft apartment with ease. Its great and customer support was always there to help with any calibration questions I had.

Gulfstrings

There is a Velodyne VDR-10BV 10-Inch 400 Watt sub all over the net on sale at a very good price.

Is anyone familiar with this sub?

Thanks,

Dave

Gulfstrings

Further searching for an answer to my own question above re the discontinued VDR-10 yielded little more than a manual from which I was able to grab these specs.

When comparing this sub to Velodyne's current products I'm not seeing a big difference to their third tier offerings.

Thinking now is I'll bring this in and give it a try. Could be a steal - or it could be just another $226 discontinued sub. If the latter, it will replace an old Boston Acoustics 8" in our bedroom and no harm done. If it's better than the two PSW111s in our primary system, I'll have bought some time to continue the search.


SPECIFICATIONS VDR-10
Woofer 10” (24.5 cm) forward firing
(8.2” piston diameter)
with vented pole piece
Amplifier: 200 watts Dynamic/
Class D 400 watts RMS Power
Cabinet Design Slot-loaded
Bass-reflex
Frequency Response 28 -120 Hz
(+/-3 dB)
Voice Coil 2” 4-layer copper
Cone Reinforced Fiber
Magnet Structure 40 oz. (2.5 lbs)
High-Pass Crossover 80 or 100 Hz (6 dB/octave slope)
Low-Pass Crossover 60 - 150 Hz
(12 dB octave, 24 dB ultimate)
Outputs Line-level and Speaker-level
Inputs Gold plated Line-level
Speaker-level
Phase 0°, 90°, 180°, 270°
Auto On/Off Yes
Removable Grill Yes
Video Shielding Yes
LED Power Indicator Yes
Input Impedance 65K ohm (for LINE INPUT jacks)
1.2K ohm (for SPEAKER LEVEL INPUT terminals)
Sensitivity
Speaker-Level 1.0V
Line 100 mV
Power Supply 120V, 60 Hz AC
Cabinet (H,W,D) 15.9” x 15” x 16.8”
Warranty (parts/labor) Three years (electronics - parts and labor)
Five years (drivers - parts and labor)
Shipping Weight (approx.) 54 lbs. (24.5 Kgs)

Thoughts appreciated.

Dave