Seeking tuner information, recomendations

inspiredsports

mhardy6647 wrote: »

. . . here's a Scott 312D ss tuner that I found at our town dump about a year ago . . .

Sheesh, what a find! Is your local dump in Beverly Hills?

Thanks for the great info.

mhardy6647

nope, just a little deep suburban (almost rural) New England town.

No treasures at the dump today (well, there was a guy unloading a Puch moped when I got there. He said it didn't run too well; never had. Kind of cool, but not something I was really in the market for).

inspiredsports

mhardy6647 wrote: »

nope, just a little deep suburban (almost rural) New England town.

No treasures at the dump today (well, there was a guy unloading a Puch moped when I got there. He said it didn't run too well; never had. Kind of cool, but not something I was really in the market for).

I thought the mantra up there was to repair, repair, repair and never throw it out. Sounds like some of your fellow New Englander's aren't living by that to your advantage.

As far am my tuner travels, I've found an antique audio shop here in town with lots of McIntosh, Fisher and Scott tube gear. He has a "not for sale" Scott 310E tube tuner that I may be able to get my ears on in my rig if I leave a piece of comparably valued gear in his possession.

mhardy6647

inspiredsports wrote: »

I thought the mantra up there was to repair, repair, repair and never throw it out. Sounds like some of your fellow New Englander's aren't living by that to your advantage.

As far am my tuner travels, I've found an antique audio shop here in town with lots of McIntosh, Fisher and Scott tube gear. He has a "not for sale" Scott 310E tube tuner that I may be able to get my ears on in my rig if I leave a piece of comparably valued gear in his possession.

Putting stuff on the Yankee Swap Pile isn't throwing it out... it is a user-friendly form of recycling - sort of like Boxing Day... but every Saturday. When one person/family is finished with something, they pass it along. It is a Yankee tradition, indeed.

Give a listen to the Scott if you can; even if it's not for sale.

Good luck!

Polkersince85

MH, Sounds like you find a lot of stuff at HalMart.

The tuners I have are a Carver 11b, a Pioneer 9500II, a Soundcraftsmen 6001 and a Audio Dynamics 2000T I picked up At Thrift. They all do a fairly good job. The Pioneer is the only analog I have right now.

inspiredsports

I'm making progress.

I've just picked up a Sansui TU-717 that will be here in a few days and have negotiated to keep the my friend's Onkyo T-9090 here for another week so I should be able to A/B/C listen test both new tuners against my NAD 4300.

As mentioned before, the Onkyo edges out my NAD. We'll see how the highly touted Sansui stacks up.

I still really want to get my ears on a Kenwood KT-990D and am working to get a Scott 310E tube unit here on loan.

snow's Kenwood T-7300 keeps tempting me too.

inspiredsports

This was a nice snag . . . http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230515416174

halo71

several vintage tuners here

http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/ele/1919169744.html
http://boston.craigslist.org/sob/ele/1923874458.html

disneyjoe7

Don't overlook getting a 40 year old tuna updated. I find it hard to compare tuna's that have old capacitors. To me comparing an old hot car's with a burned out engine, how can you compare a burned out 454 engine to a newer 350 engine you can't.

inspiredsports

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

Don't overlook getting a 40 year old tuna updated. I find it hard to compare tuna's that have old capacitors. To me comparing an old hot car's with a burned out engine, how can you compare a burned out 454 engine to a newer 350 engine you can't.

Agreed, but the cost to ship, update and ship back can rarely be recouped on most tuners if you end up not liking the sound after upgrades, so it makes it really hard to do the listening yourself.

I going to burn through a lot of "newer" $200 to $300 tuners to get my feet wet, and eventually figure out what I want to go for as far as a top-shelf vintage tube unit.

I have a hunch I will end up liking the Sansui TU-717 enough to send it out for caps and alignment.

inspiredsports

I mentioned earlier I'm also researching FM antennas.

We have great reception here with lots of stations coming in wall-to-wall, but there is always room for improvement for the more distant stations.

I've seen lots of plans to build a simple "j-pole" antenna out of aluminum or copper tubing, but now I've found a twist that I'm not sure I understand.

I found and "all cable" j-pole with very little description (image below) and I've written to the seller for more information. In the meantime, is anyone here familiar with this type of j-pole FM antenna?

I'll post more info as I get it, and hopefully he (seller) has a better image too.

bikezappa

Inspiredsports

If you have many strong stations from all directions you may consider simple rabbit ears from radio Shack for $10. They will allow you to get a good FM signal by just rotating the Rabbit Ears.

inspiredsports

bikezappa wrote: »

Inspiredsports

If you have many strong stations from all directions you may consider simple rabbit ears from radio Shack for $10. They will allow you to get a good FM signal by just rotating the Rabbit Ears.

Simple rabbit ears are exactly what I'm using now with excellent results for anything in the two closest major radio markets where I get about 2 dozen strong (60 dbf or greater) stations.

I have the telescoping steel ends extended equally to form a 57" perfect straight line suspended from my drop ceiling with rubber insulating bands, and the lead running straight down from the center (forming a "T") to my tuner.

I've kept old rabbit ears from portables for years so the cost was essentially zero. I removed the antenna wire and soldered a one lead each of a standard 300 ohm to 75 ohm coaxial adapter right to each of the 2 metal halves of the rabbit ears, and then ran a length of properly terminated coax from the adapter to the 75 ohm input of my tuner. Simple, elegant and cheap yielding excellent results.

What I'm looking to accomplish with the J-Pole is to strenthen the signal to a listenable level from some of the FM stations that are 60 or more miles away ("Dx'ing").

disneyjoe7

"I've kept old rabbit ears from portables for years so the cost was essentially zero. I removed the antenna wire and soldered a one lead each of a standard 300 ohm to 75 ohm coaxial adapter right to each of the 2 metal halves of the rabbit ears and then ran coax from the adapter to the 75 ohm input of my tuner. Simple, elegant and cheap yielding excellent results."

Doing it that way could be an issue. You're running 75 ohm down a 300 ohm lead. Keep it all one or the other.

bikezappa

("Dx'ing")

You need a big **** FM antenna with a rotor mounted as high as possible on the roof.

A tuner with two antenna inputs would also increase your options.

Jetmaker737

FWIW, since you already have a TU-717 on the way... I have the same tuner which I had modded by Joseph Chow at Audio Horizons last spring. I love the hell outta that tuner. But the only thing I can compare it to is the tuner in my Onk 805, which it utterly smokes. Hopefully you like the 717 as-is. If you do, then refurb it. I kept mine stock for a couple of months before deciding I liked it enough to drop a few bills on the mods. The mods really did take it to another level.

inspiredsports

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

"I've kept old rabbit ears from portables for years so the cost was essentially zero. I removed the antenna wire and soldered a one lead each of a standard 300 ohm to 75 ohm coaxial adapter right to each of the 2 metal halves of the rabbit ears and then ran coax from the adapter to the 75 ohm input of my tuner. Simple, elegant and cheap yielding excellent results."

Doing it that way could be an issue. You're running 75 ohm down a 300 ohm lead. Keep it all one or the other.

I guess I'm confused by the impedance matching. The first 2 images show how I have the 300 to 75 connected (I disassembled and soldered internally just as the original [300 ohm?] flat antenna wire was from the factory) to my rabbit ears and then connected to a length of 75 ohm coax that drops to the 75 ohm coax input on my tuner.

I've then combined adapters parts shown in image "A" in images "B" and "C" where I believe C is 300 ohms at both ends and B is 75 ohms at both ends. It seems you can do whatever you want as long as you end up with the correct impedance at the device you are connecting to?

Q1: So, in my rabbit ears connection, why is it wrong to convert the antenna from 300 to 75 right the antenna, and then connect it to the 75 ohm coax input on my tuner?

Q2: That leads to; What happens when you come from a roof antenna with 75 ohm coaxial cable, and then use a 300 to 75 to hook to 300 ohm screw terminals on a tuner? (as many people do)

Q3: And last, What if you come from the roof antenna with flat 300 ohm wire, and then use a 300 to 75 ohm adapter to connect to the 75 ohm coax input on a tuner? (as many people do)

mhardy6647

300 ohm balanced (twinlead) vs. 75 ohm unbalanced. Need to match the antenna, line, and tuner inputs. Back in the day (and still, in some cases, today), antennae are 300 ohm devices. The gizmo shown in Figures A to C is an impedance matching transformer, popularly called a balun (for BALanced to UNbalanced matching, how cool is that?). Does this help or am I telling you what you already know?

The problem with high frequencies (VHF, in the case of FM) is that every time you put something in the line (a union, a splice, anything), there are insertion losses and often a negative impact on the antenna's SWR (standing wave ratio - more of a concern for TX than RX, but still...). Simple is best -- one downlead, no splitters, switches, couplings, etc. is best; zero baluns is better than two (which is what I have on my outdoor antenna... come to think of it).

inspiredsports

mhardy6647 wrote: »

300 ohm balanced (twinlead) vs. 75 ohm unbalanced. Need to match the antenna, line, and tuner inputs. Back in the day (and still, in some cases, today), antennae are 300 ohm devices. The gizmo shown in Figures A to C is an impedance matching transformer, popularly called a balun (for BALanced to UNbalanced matching, how cool is that?). Does this help or am I telling you what you already know?

The problem with high frequencies (VHF, in the case of FM) is that every time you put something in the line (a union, a splice, anything), there are insertion losses and often a negative impact on the antenna's SWR (standing wave ratio - more of a concern for TX than RX, but still...). Simple is best -- one downlead, no splitters, switches, couplings, etc. is best; zero baluns is better than two (which is what I have on my outdoor antenna... come to think of it).

OK, the Onkyo T-9090 I'm connecting with the rabbit ears HAS ONLY A 75 ohm COAX INPUT, so the rabbit ears I soldered up would be the best solution, albeit a compromise because it has the 1 300 to 50 balun in line. Because of the insertion of this matching transformer, there is a chance I don't have an ideal standing wave ratio (SWR) of "1" so gain might be diminished.

Ideally, the Onkyo would want a 75 ohm antenna as it has no 300ohm input.

Now, for my NAD which has 300 ohm inputs, 300 ohm flat-wire from the rabbit ears would be best.

(I realize there are much better solutions out there, I am just monkeying around with the stuff I've had in a drawer for decades. In fact, I just bought the 75 ohm J-Pole I showed in Post #42 (it was cheap) for further experimentation)

I sure appreciate you guys sharing what you know.

mhardy6647

yeah, but you gotta play the cards you're dealt :-) (or procure or build a 75 ohm antenna).
The J-poles do get good press; I have no experience with one myself - yet.

I'd be embarrassed to tell you what kind of antenna I use in the living room :-)

inspiredsports

mhardy6647 wrote: »

yeah, but you gotta play the cards you're dealt :-) (or procure or build a 75 ohm antenna).
The J-poles do get good press; I have no experience with one myself - yet.

I'd be embarrassed to tell you what kind of antenna I use in the living room :-)

I hear you, but you would not believe what kind of signal the rabbit ears (and yes now we know they are compromised from 300 to 75 ohms) are kicking out in my man cave (walk-out basement so partially underground).

mhardy6647

Sure I do! The half-wave dipole (which is what rabbit ears be) is a very good FM antenna. In fact, it is generally the "reference FM antenna" on which gain measurements for other antennae (e.g., a directional Yagi) are based (x dB gain over a half wave dipole)

bikezappa

I think you can get both twin lead 300 ohm and coax rabbit ears. I have both types but I forgot where I got the 300 ohm ears.

inspiredsports

Jetmaker737 wrote: »

FWIW, since you already have a TU-717 on the way... I have the same tuner which I had modded by Joseph Chow at Audio Horizons last spring. I love the hell outta that tuner. But the only thing I can compare it to is the tuner in my Onk 805, which it utterly smokes. Hopefully you like the 717 as-is. If you do, then refurb it. I kept mine stock for a couple of months before deciding I liked it enough to drop a few bills on the mods. The mods really did take it to another level.

I have high expectations too, and jsut as you say, I plan on listening for several months and then upgrading if I'm happy. As far as "favorite tuners" go, the TU-717 always seems to be in everyones's "top twenty". When you start to figure in the cost, I think the Sansui TU-717 (or maybe the Kenwood KT-990D) yield the highest rating per dollar spent. I am psyched to receive this unit and get it hooked up to my system so I can "let the listening begin!"

inspiredsports

bikezappa wrote: »

("Dx'ing")

You need a big **** FM antenna with a rotor mounted as high as possible on the roof.

A tuner with two antenna inputs would also increase your options.

Most tuners I've seen have both 300 ohm screw terminals plus round male coax 75 ohm antenna connections, but no switch to choose one or the other.

Probably a dumb question, but if you have an antenna connected to each type of input, does it create problems?

bikezappa

inspiredsports wrote: »

Most tuners I've seen have both 300 ohm screw terminals plus round male coax 75 ohm antenna connections, but no switch to choose one or the other.

Probably a dumb question, but if you have an antenna connected to each type of input, does it create problems?

Sorry to confuse you. My fault. I have a Revox B260s tuner that has two antenna inputs. I also have two antennas pointed in different directions. When I program the FM stations I select what anetenna to use.

inspiredsports

bikezappa wrote: »

Sorry to confuse you. My fault. I have a Revox B260s tuner that has two antenna inputs. I also have two antennas pointed in different directions. When I program the FM stations I select what antenna to use.

Got it. I've noticed some tuners with A/B antenna inputs and an A/B switch.

But that does still leave the question open on units with 330 ohm and 75 ohm inputs. Those inputs must merge on the board inside the tuner, and I wonder if it hurts the final signal the tuner receives when separate antennas are connected to both the 300 and 75 inputs at the same time.

Greg

Polkie2009

I'll say one thing,, the Sansui TU-717 is definitely one of the best looking tuners I've ever seen.

mhardy6647

That family of Sansui amps and tuners is indeed most attractive.

mrbigbluelight

inspiredsports wrote: »

This was a nice snag . . . http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230515416174

Nice snag, indeed.

Another "9900" tuner that you might consider is the TU-9900 from Sansui.

There's not a chance in Hades of picking it up at the Kenwood price, but ...
there are a couple of Sansui TU-9900's on Ebay right now. The "cheap" one is starting at $450 with 2 days to go.
The other one's starting at $795. :(

And those haven't be refurbed, either.

Nice, nice tuner.



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