SDA Blasphemy?

falconcry72

I'm young and stupid and like to experiment (no not like that sicko :eek:). I have a feeling I may get bashed for this, but here goes...

After already appreciating the sound of vintage Polks (RTA-12C's, Monitor 10B's, and Monitor 5B's) I finally found a local set of SDA's (2B's) and snatched'em up. I completely fell in love. Well, completely, aside from the highs, but I already knew I wouldn't love the highs, as I knew the sl2000's from the other Polks. I ordered the RD0's. While waiting for them to be delivered, I tried *something* to see how it would sound. It sounded better than the sl2000's. A lot better. Then the RD0's came, so I undid *something* and put the RD0's in. They, too, sounded better than the sl2000's. After a couple weeks of burn-in they kept getting better, but I wasn't satisfied, so I did *something* again, and I think it sounds awesome. I'm going to keep listening like this for another week, then undo it again and put the RD0's back in, let'em burn-in more and go from there.

Here's what I did:

I unhooked the tweets on the SDA's at the speaker terminals, screwed the tweets back in, then ran the internal wires that connect the tweets to the crossovers out the back of the speakers and connected them to a pair of bookshelves of whom I love the upper mid-range and highs (Swans Diva 2.1's). I kept the jumpers on the Diva's in place so they could decide what to give to their woofer and what to give to their tweeter. I was suprised by how much info the Divas gave to their woofer; their crossover is much higher than the SDA's.

I don't know if it's the fact the the Divas share the 2khz and up load whereas the RD0's have to take it all, or maybe my ears just like the Diva's tweeters better, but, either way, I'm really enjoying it.

The soundstage is obviously taller, but it is also suprisingly coherent. I wasn't expecting it to be so coherent. It does not sound like two different speakers. It's like the singer's voice is gently floating in and on top of the other instruments.

I'd really like to try this with pair of LSi-7's up top since I know I like those tweets better than the Diva's.

LET THE BASHING BEGIN!!!...:D;)

stubby

I don't know what the hell you were drinking (1st photo), but your drawing looks NOTHING like the stereo.

stubby

dorokusai

stubby wrote: »

I don't know what the hell you were drinking (1st photo), but your drawing looks NOTHING like the stereo.

stubby

LOL.

Hey Falcon, have fun, experiment, why not? The fact your getting hands involved means your a true audio nut and that's always cool.

mmadden28

Definitely sounds like something I would NOT do, esp since you would not be getting any 'SDA effect' via the tweeters of the Diva's
Do you have the SDA interconect cable connected with this setup?

However if I were to try something like that, I would remove the jumpers on the Diva's and only connect to the top posts, that way you're only driving the highs. Then I would run a freq scan on it to see if you have a flat response with something like Room EQ Wizard or similar. If you don't have a flat response, perhaps you might see what response curve does float your boat, ya know?

Anyway--so with the wires coming from the 2B's, where are they coming from? Did you seal the 2B's back up? Or is there a now a place for pressure leakage?

Personally I think you should put the 2B's back together and let the tweets burn in more to see if they break in more to you're liking--How many hours have they been burining in? Or you may consider upgrading the caps and resistors and TL modding them.

Otherwise if you really like them this way--well then good on you and enjoy. :cool:

falconcry72

mmadden28 wrote: »

Definitely sounds like something I would NOT do, esp since you would not be getting any 'SDA effect' via the tweeters of the Diva's
Do you have the SDA interconect cable connected with this setup?

However if I were to try something like that, I would remove the jumpers on the Diva's and only connect to the top posts, that way you're only driving the highs. Then I would run a freq scan on it to see if you have a flat response with something like Room EQ Wizard or similar. If you don't have a flat response, perhaps you might see what response curve does float your boat, ya know?

Anyway--so with the wires coming from the 2B's, where are they coming from? Did you seal the 2B's back up? Or is there a now a place for pressure leakage?

Personally I think you should put the 2B's back together and let the tweets burn in more to see if they break in more to you're liking--How many hours have they been burining in? Or you may consider upgrading the caps and resistors and TL modding them.

Otherwise if you really like them this way--well then good on you and enjoy. :cool:

There's no "SDA effect" comming from the tweets on the SDA's anyway; it's all the mid drivers . And yes, the interconnect is connected.

I tried running the internal wire of the SDA's just to the highs of the Divas at first, and I definitely didn't need a frequency scan to hear a a BIG GAP in response. The Diva's tweeters are crossed over much higher than the SDA's, that's why I left the jumper in place, so that the Divas would be playing the the same information as the SDA's would normally give to the RD0's, but the Divas just spread some of that info down to their drivers.

I just ran the wire out the back where the binding posts are. I didn't alter anything; the circular plastic plate just isn't screwed down all the way at the top, so, yes, there is some air leakage, but not much, and I didn't notice a difference in bass resonse, especially in that small room.

And yea, like I said, I'm planning on hookin the RD0's back up next week, maybe I'll let them burn in more in my monitors in the mean time...

falconcry72

stubby wrote: »

I don't know what the hell you were drinking (1st photo), but your drawing looks NOTHING like the stereo.

stubby

You want to know what was in that glass??? It's pretty f'ed up....

Champagne mixed with a Monster energy drink.:eek:

I know, I have problems. One of those problems is not having enough energy, and the other is not being drunk enough; this drink cures both!!!:rolleyes:

falconcry72

dorokusai wrote: »

LOL.

Hey Falcon, have fun, experiment, why not? The fact your getting hands involved means your a true audio nut and that's always cool.

Thanks for the encouragement! It seems that tweaking my setup can get my mind off things just as much as the actual music can:).

F1nut

After you're done playing around, do the TL mod. You can thank me later.

helipilotdoug

F1nut wrote: »

After you're done playing around, do the TL mod. You can thank me later.

+1 on what F1Nut said.

falconcry72

F1nut wrote: »

After you're done playing around, do the TL mod. You can thank me later.

It's tempting for sure, but it may be a while until I get around to it ($$$). I think my next upgrade is going to be getting a new pre (tubed), then an external DAC. After that I'll look at the speakers. I'm sure I'll want to stick with SDA's, so I'll either TL the 2B's or sell them and move up the SDA food chain, depending on the size of the listening area I have at the time. My current room is too small for anything bigger than the 2B's, but I have no idea where I'll be by that time.:)

Maybe I'll do the speakers second and the DAC third... Will modding the crossovers on the speakers yeild a larger improvement in overall sound than adding an external DAC?? What about vs. adding a tubed pre?? Keep in mind that both the pre and the DAC would have to be $500 or less on the used market.

F1nut

I'd do the speakers first, so that you have a proper reference for future purchases.

Joe08867

+10 ^^^^^^

gdb

I'd advise placing the SDAs on the long wall and.......re-painting the wall that they're currently on!:D

Face

F1nut wrote: »

I'd do the speakers first, so that you have a proper reference for future purchases.

+2...

falconcry72 wrote: »

Keep in mind that both the pre and the DAC would have to be $500 or less on the used market.

Save a little more and you can pick up the Eastern Electric tube DAC/Pre.

falconcry72

gdb wrote: »

and.......re-painting the wall that they're currently on!:D

HA!

My ex did that:rolleyes:. That room was her sewing studio, and when she moved out I turned it into my 2-channel/clean studio room. I'll be out in about a week, so it's not going to change.

I'm also not going to change what wall the setup is just because I'll be too busy this week, but in the next room I will deffinetly try to give the SDA's 3 or 4 feet or more on their sides.

falconcry72

Face wrote: »

+2...
Save a little more and you can pick up the Eastern Electric tube DAC/Pre.

I'll have to check that one out.... and FYI I meant 500 each, not combined. Maybe a little more on the pre if I can go less on the DAC.

dpowell

falconcry72 wrote: »

Maybe I'll do the speakers second and the DAC third... Will modding the crossovers on the speakers yeild a larger improvement in overall sound than adding an external DAC?? What about vs. adding a tubed pre?? Keep in mind that both the pre and the DAC would have to be $500 or less on the used market.

Do it all now! As for used tubed pre's in the <$500 range, I picked up my Anthem Pre 2L for under $500.

falconcry72

dpowell wrote: »

Do it all now! As for used tubed pre's in the <$500 range, I picked up my Anthem Pre 2L for under $500.

I've read good things about that Anthem. I'm also looking at the Dared SL-2000 (based mainly on good reviews here), and the Dodd ELP, though that one may be hard to find.

I just started researching tubed pres like a month ago, so I'm very new to the game. Thanks for the suggestion:D

inspiredsports

falconcry72 wrote: »

There's no "SDA effect" comming from the tweets on the SDA's anyway; it's all the mid drivers . And yes, the interconnect is connected.

Correct.

(Exception: 1984 1A's with "side by side" tweetrers)

inspiredsports

I think it is good to experiment, but as an owner of TL'd 2B's, I have to believe you will like the TL mod even better than stacking additional tweeters on top.

Could it be the 2B's are not level front to back, meaning the front top edge of the cabinet is pointing slightly downward. I've found the tack strip against the wall under the carpet in a carpeted room can cause speaker cabinets to tilt downward. This impacts how the tweeters sound in the "sweet spot". The additional height of your stacked Divas would act to correct that.

I'm curious what you see if you put a level, front to back, on the top of your 2B's.

inspiredsports

edited

falconcry72

inspiredsports wrote: »

Correct.

(Exception: 1984 1A's with "side by side" tweetrers)

and also the origanal 2's and the original crs's.

inspiredsports wrote: »

Could it be the 2B's are not level front to back, meaning the front top edge of the cabinet is pointing slightly downward.

You were right; they were slightly unlevel. I'm going to fix that.

I also just realized something: when I detached the RD0's in favor of the Divas I also removed the polyswitches on the 2B's XO's. I haven't listened to the RD0's sans polyswitches yet, so they may really open up now that those polys are out of there...

I also think I really enjoy the height the Divas add. My head ends up being about exactly in between the MW's on the SDA's and the tweets on the Divas. It's the perfect immersion. With the stock 2B's my head was slightly above the tweets. Maybe I just need taller SDA's..... 1C's? SRS2's?:D

I should probably get back to packing and not think about acquiring another huge set of speakers I'd have to move in a week.:rolleyes:

In the meantime, though, I'm going to reattach the RD0's to see what they sound like w/o the poly's and level'em. Maybe I'll even try to elevate them 6-10"...

inspiredsports

falconcry72 wrote: »

and also the origanal 2's and the original crs's.



You were right; they were slightly unlevel. I'm going to fix that.

I also just realized something: when I detached the RD0's in favor of the Divas I also removed the polyswitches on the 2B's XO's. I haven't listened to the RD0's sans polyswitches yet, so they may really open up now that those polys are out of there...

I also think I really enjoy the height the Divas add. My head ends up being about exactly in between the MW's on the SDA's and the tweets on the Divas. It's the perfect immersion. With the stock 2B's my head was slightly above the tweets. Maybe I just need taller SDA's..... 1C's? SRS2's?:D

I should probably get back to packing and not think about acquiring another huge set of speakers I'd have to move in a week.:rolleyes:

In the meantime, though, I'm going to reattach the RD0's to see what they sound like w/o the poly's and level'em. Maybe I'll even try to elevate them 6-10"...

That was my point about the possibility the front planes of your cabinets might be pointing slightly downward. Just a degree or two off axis at the speaker becomes several inches as you enter the "sweet spot" where your desk is located.

If you make sure the speakers are dead level, the axis of the tweeters will be pointing higher at your listening position.

falconcry72

inspiredsports wrote: »

That was my point about the possibility the front planes of your cabinets might be pointing slightly downward. Just a degree or two off axis at the speaker becomes several inches as you enter the "sweet spot" where your desk is located.

If you make sure the speakers are dead level, the axis of the tweeters will be pointing higher at your listening position.

I just hooked the RD0's back up. They sound a lot better than they did before. It must have been the polyswitches; I had tripped them a few times before I took them out. I don't know if tripping them weakened them, or if being 20 years old weakened them, but there's more detail in the highs now.

I still miss the height that the Divas added, though. It was like how the SDA effect is expansive to the left and right, but up and down.

I'm going to to play with the height of the 2B's now. I'm going to tilt them back slightly. If that doesn't work, I'll use stands to try a height that will put my ear right between the MW's and the tweets.

Thanks for the help everyone!!!:)

Edit: I just sat in my listening chair right next to one of the 2B's and realized that my ear is 6" above the top of the speaker, and as you may know, the tweet on the 2B is 6" below the top of the speaker, so my ear is a full foot higher than the tweet. Having the Diva on top bridged that gap. A lower chair is not an option because I like higher chairs for working at a desk. Until I get bigger SDA's, I am going to make stands for these. I'm thinking the best, easiest way would be to get a 2" thick pieace of wood that's the same size or larger than the base of the speakers, spike the wood to the carpet and then spike the speakers to the wood. Sound good?

BTW sorry for thinking out loud, haha. This is a long damn thread for me to just figure out that the speakers are too friggin low! lol

dorokusai

Being 20 years old affects them as they sometimes eventually fail completely. It should be the first thing you remove for good or replace on an old SDA. I usually remove them for ones that I own, replace them for ones that I sell.

I've used rubber door stops for speaker tweaking and they should be in your goody box anyways

inspiredsports

falconcry72 wrote: »

I just hooked the RD0's back up. They sound a lot better than they did before. It must have been the polyswitches; I had tripped them a few times before I took them out. I don't know if tripping them weakened them, or if being 20 years old weakened them, but there's more detail in the highs now.

I still miss the height that the Divas added, though. It was like how the SDA effect is expansive to the left and right, but up and down.

I'm going to to play with the height of the 2B's now. I'm going to tilt them back slightly. If that doesn't work, I'll use stands to try a height that will put my ear right between the MW's and the tweets.

Thanks for the help everyone!!!:)

Edit: I just sat in my listening chair right next to one of the 2B's and realized that my ear is 6" above the top of the speaker, and as you may know, the tweet on the 2B is 6" below the top of the speaker, so my ear is a full foot higher than the tweet. Having the Diva on top bridged that gap. A lower chair is not an option because I like higher chairs for working at a desk. Until I get bigger SDA's, I am going to make stands for these. I'm thinking the best, easiest way would be to get a 2" thick pieace of wood that's the same size or larger than the base of the speakers, spike the wood to the carpet and then spike the speakers to the wood. Sound good?

BTW sorry for thinking out loud, haha. This is a long damn thread for me to just figure out that the speakers are too friggin low! lol

I do have to agree that I prefer the tweeter placement (center of top tweeter is 43" off of the floor) on my TL'd SDA SRS 2's versus the tweeter placement (center of tweeter is 34" off of the ground) on my TL'd SDA 2B's at my listening position.

I have found in my experience any deviation from perfect flat/vertical/symmetrical/etc. placement of SDA's diminishes their focus and soundstage. In other words, tilt in any direction is a bad thing.

Additionally, risers are problematic unless they can replicate the same mating characteristics as you have when they are sitting on the floor as designed.