Engineered channels

burdette
burdette Posts: 1,194
edited June 2003 in Speakers
Way (way way) back in the day, like 1981, I experimented with basic matrix 'effects'.. wiring a third speaker across the positive terminals of the L/R channels. This was common enough that the 'how to' was printed in audio mags at the time.

I recently built a new center, so I find myself with an extra speaker.. an Advent center that actually sounds good and goes well with my Polks.

Just for kicks and giggles, I wired the Advent matrix-style across the two surrounds to create a rear center. There certainly was sound coming from it, although listening to a movie at regular volume.. I don't know how much it contributed to the overall effect.

My receiver is 5.1 and I've no desire nor the funds to replace it. Just playing around.

Anyone using an additional speaker MacGyvered into your system? I thought I'd read (obviously didn't pay attention) of some guys transforming their 5.1 to 6.1.. or 6.1 to 7.1, using this fudge-factor wiring? I sorta doubt I'll do this given the wiring and mounting involved... but I am curious.
Post edited by burdette on
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited June 2003
    I am considering doing this with a "spare" CS 350 I have due to the room set up I have. My listening position is all the way to the back wall so I was planning to put the 350 on the floor behind my couch firing up.

    But I started thinking (always a problem), since the rears are not normally discrete channels, but mono, it should be like one of Bob Carver's famous null tests, i.e., no sound. Interesting that you are getting some sound... Subtle differences in the circuits to the rear center perhaps???

    With discrete info to the two rears, it should be effective. Some is around although not a high percentage as yet. Given time though...

    Until discrete rears info becomes more common, I was considering going to essentially a Y-split of a rear out to an extra channel of amplification for the 350. Will sound weird on the occasional discrete source, but for most material it should help bring more rear to my against-the-back-wall listening position.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
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  • gidrah
    gidrah Posts: 3,049
    edited June 2003
    I've never tried it, but have skimmed over the articles when they came out. Unfortunately I only had a stereo rig at the time so didn't pay much attention. I then read how you could use an old (spare) DPL receiver to matrix a center rear. I once again skimmed as my 2ch rig played in the background. I guess it's time to hit the stacks.
    Make it Funky! :)
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  • burdette
    burdette Posts: 1,194
    edited June 2003
    Tour... I do believe that DD5.1 (and higher, 6.1, etc) do indeed have *discrete* surround channels.. that is one of the improvements over Pro Logic, which just had a single surround signal even if you fed it to two speakers.

    I agree that if you tried to matrix two mono signals, you'd get nothing because there would never be a difference between the the two signals, and a 'matrixed' speaker plays only the differences.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited June 2003
    If I'm not mistaken, Dynaco (David Hafler God rest his soul) had some rigs setup like this. I can't remember if it was before, after, or during the 'quad' stage, but for a while, with common ground amps, they were adding a 3rd speaker (to the stereo setup), and placing it behind the listening position, with a 'matrixed' sound.

    I have some old hardbacks from the late 50's and early 60's at home, I'll confirm later.

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • gidrah
    gidrah Posts: 3,049
    edited June 2003
    Yes. My preamp does this. I always thought it was for a center speaker in a large room though.
    Make it Funky! :)
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited June 2003
    Originally posted by burdette
    Tour... I do believe that DD5.1 (and higher, 6.1, etc) do indeed have *discrete* surround channels..
    Yes, channel #6 is discrete, but #7 is the same as #6 in most "7.1" material right now. Doc pointed out somewhere that there is some 7 ch discrete around. More will be coming.

    gidrah,
    Are you saying your 2 ch pre-amp matrixes a singal for a center? Or an old AVR matixes a center rear? What model?
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • gidrah
    gidrah Posts: 3,049
    edited June 2003
    Originally posted by Tour2ma
    gidrah,
    Are you saying your 2 ch pre-amp matrixes a singal for a center? Or an old AVR matixes a center rear? What model?

    It's a Dynaco PAT-4. Here's a link. I haven't actually hooked it up in this mode yet though.http://home.indy.net/~gregdunn/dynaco/components/PAT4/index.html
    Make it Funky! :)
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited June 2003
    Ah the old PAT-4... a couple college buds built them.

    Don't remember it having the capability you mention though. :confused:
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • gidrah
    gidrah Posts: 3,049
    edited June 2003
    Like I said I haven't tried it yet. I know it has 2 sets of pre-outs and a "6dB blend" for a 3rd channel. I looked for an on-line owners manual, but couldn't find one. I may try it, but it's tee-time right now so I can't promise anything. Besides it's in the other apartment.
    Make it Funky! :)
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited June 2003
    Ask and ye shall...
    http://mywebpages.comcast.net/tpfarr/PAT4-Manual/PAT-4.htm

    Enjoy... :)
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • gidrah
    gidrah Posts: 3,049
    edited June 2003
    Thank you kind sir. I'll print it out at work.:D
    Make it Funky! :)
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