Setting up Polk LSi-9s - advice welcomed

philipjr

LessisNevermore wrote: »

Not an issue at all. My sub volume is at less than 50%, and the sub is not corner loaded, it's out into the room a bit.

Hey what were you running as a preamp before your USP-1? An AVR, and then then on into your amp(s)? I am still not clear on exactly what the pre is supposed to give me over and above the soundcard other than the crossover and volume control capabilities - where did your improved imaging and staging come from? What exactly is it doing with the signal to cause those improvements? If has a chip for any DSPing other than just crossover functionality wouldn't that be redundant with the Xonar?

Sorry for all the questions - just trying to get a handle on exactly how this USP-1 caused such an improvement in your system, and with the coundcard, whether it would have the same effect on mine...

LessisNevermore

philipjr wrote: »

Hey what were you running as a preamp before your USP-1? An AVR, and then then on into your amp(s)? I am still not clear on exactly what the pre is supposed to give me over and above the soundcard other than the crossover and volume control capabilities - where did your improved imaging and staging come from? What exactly is it doing with the signal to cause those improvements? If has a chip for any DSPing other than just crossover functionality wouldn't that be redundant with the Xonar?

Sorry for all the questions - just trying to get a handle on exactly how this USP-1 caused such an improvement in your system, and with the coundcard, whether it would have the same effect on mine...

Yes, I was using a Denon AVR to the amp. I did completely forget that you are just using the soundcard straight to the amp.:o Without running into a DAC, and then to the pre amp, it might well be redundant.(Performance differences aside) There is one consideration, if for some reason your computer wigs out and the volume gets punched to 100%, your amp and speakers could pay a severe price. Having the pre amp there, you can keep the computer output volume at 100%, and use the pre amp volume.

philipjr

LessisNevermore wrote: »

Yes, I was using a Denon AVR to the amp. I did completely forget that you are just using the soundcard straight to the amp.:o Without running into a DAC, and then to the pre amp, it might well be redundant.(Performance differences aside) There is one consideration, if for some reason your computer wigs out and the volume gets punched to 100%, your amp and speakers could pay a severe price. Having the pre amp there, you can keep the computer output volume at 100%, and use the pre amp volume.

Yes that is an excellent point - one I considered before hooking it up this way. I have not had any such issues so far (knock on wood), but that doesn't mean it can't happen. I actually spoke for several minutes with a tech at Emotiva today and described my setup to him, and what upgrades I had done so far. He said if I was going to spend a few hundred more dollars at some point he recommended that my next upgrade be two UPA-1 monoblocks. He said these would make a huge impact on sound even at moderate listening levels by drastically improving channel separation and having dual power supplies, not to mention almost doubling power from 185wrms per channel to 350wrms per channel. This is the same thing Xcapri79 said earlier in this thread. I am wondering though if the difference would be audible enough at anything but reference levels to justify the cash layout of almost $700. For another $100 on top of that I could go with the monster XPA-2 at 300wrms per channel, which I believe may be a dual mono amp design anyway. Anyone have experience with that amp? Are the internals higher quality than the UPA-1? They sure look nice on the inside from the pics on the Emotiva site...

Ideally, although I know I can't do it now and probably not even all at once in the near future, I would like to run either two UPA-1s or an XPA-2 and the USP-1 preamp. That would be a sweet setup I imagine.

philipjr

LessisNevermore wrote: »

Yes, I was using a Denon AVR to the amp. I did completely forget that you are just using the soundcard straight to the amp.:o Without running into a DAC, and then to the pre amp, it might well be redundant.(Performance differences aside) There is one consideration, if for some reason your computer wigs out and the volume gets punched to 100%, your amp and speakers could pay a severe price. Having the pre amp there, you can keep the computer output volume at 100%, and use the pre amp volume.

Pulled the trigger today on the USP-1 pre-amp. Should be arriving Fed-Ex Saturday. I will let you guys know my results once I get it hooked up and the crossovers dialed in, and get to audition it a bit. I figured it was worth the money just for the remote volume control, ability to get more out of my amp by high-passing my mains, better low-pass than on the sub, stronger signal to the amp, and not having to worry about anything happening with the PC and jacking up the volume and damaging something. If it makes the staging and imaging even better, well that's just iceing on the cake. Looking forward to getting it hooked up and dialed in - will report in with results some time this weekend. You guys have a great one yourselves! Wish me luck!

LessisNevermore

philipjr wrote: »

Pulled the trigger today on the USP-1 pre-amp. Should be arriving Fed-Ex Saturday. I will let you guys know my results once I get it hooked up and the crossovers dialed in, and get to audition it a bit. I figured it was worth the money just for the remote volume control, ability to get more out of my amp by high-passing my mains, better low-pass than on the sub, stronger signal to the amp, and not having to worry about anything happening with the PC and jacking up the volume and damaging something. If it makes the staging and imaging even better, well that's just iceing on the cake. Looking forward to getting it hooked up and dialed in - will report in with results some time this weekend. You guys have a great one yourselves! Wish me luck!

Congrats,
let us know what your impressions are, when you get it fired up. Keep in mind, that unless you have 100 hours in, your speakers aren't fully broken in, so what ever impressions you have at firs, could change as the speakers change.

philipjr

LessisNevermore wrote: »

Congrats,
let us know what your impressions are, when you get it fired up. Keep in mind, that unless you have 100 hours in, your speakers aren't fully broken in, so what ever impressions you have at firs, could change as the speakers change.

Yes sir. Same goes for the UPA-2 since it and the speakers are only a week old - and sounding better all the time...

Probably got around 25-30 hours on them already, been enjoying the system every chance I get. My sister loves music as much as I do and when she came over last to hear everything I still had the RTi-A3s and she said "How do you ever get anywhere on time with this stereo? I would always be like 'I can get to work in two minutes - I know I can get in one more song!'" LOL Can't wait for her to come over Saturday and hear the new stuff once I get the pre-amp hooked up. She has not heard the LSi-9s with the new amp, and I am looking forward to seeing the smile on her face! Good times - and as you mentioned will only get better. I am excited to see if high-passing the LSi-9s will calm them down a little on the midbass/bass and help with the room reflections some, although I am thinking the peakiness my room is causing is in the 100-150hz range. Can't hurt though, and should free up some amp current for even better dynamics, I am also hoping. The UPA-2 barely gets warm even when I crank it, so without having to push that bottom octave or two it should be plenty of power for the time being. Luckily the condo on the other side of the wall that my system is near is vacant right now or they would probably have already come and hauled my **** off to jail haha...

philipjr

Holy smokes! I would like to sincerely thank everyone that recommended the Emotiva USP-1 pre-amp to me. It is absolutely, positively wonderful. Have only listened to it for about half an hour but all I can say is that I am somewhat stunned. Everything I had hoped it would be, it is. the LSi-9s sound beautiful now. I don't really understand what it is doing to the analog signal coming out of the Xonar, it has no DSP or anything. It is completely analog, even the crossovers, I believe. The crossovers in it are super nice too, and cleaned up my overbearing midbass issue almost completely. I have the Nines high-passed at around 60-70hz and same for the low-pass on the sub. Sub is sounding wonderful, seems to be benefiting from the same increase in signal strength and clarity that the Nines are. Imaging and staging is tons better as well, just like LessIs Nevermore said that he experienced with his USP-1. I don't see how it did this, but it did. With the UPA-2 not having to push that bottom octave the dynamics have gone through the roof. I don't see any reason now to upgrade the amp this thing puts out tons of clean power, and clear as a bell. I know there is better stuff out there but for what I paid for this system it really is an incredible value. Thanks again to everyone for their advice and guidance. Anyone has any questions or comments, fire away. I will be here in my room listening, with a big smile on my face - this is the best thing I have ever spent this amount of money on and I am super happy with all of it.

Oh I did want to get feedback from anyone who has an opinion on whether or not buying nice speaker cables would be worth the money, or if 14 gauge regular Monster Cable I have now would be sufficient. I have nice interconnects/RCAs already, not high-end by any means but $200 retail Monster Cable 1000 series that I got new for $40 on eBay. They seem to work well, just didn't know if my speaker wire might be a weak link in my system. Does anyone feel upgraded cables are really worth the money in a system in this price range?

For anyone who is interested, so here is the breakdown of the finished (for now, LOL) system:

PC source - FLAC library (some are 24-bit 96Khz recordings)
ASUS Xonar Essence soundcard (analog output from 24-bit Burr-Brown DACs)
Emotiva USP-1 Analog Stereo Pre-amp with high and low-pass crossovers
Emotiva UPA-2 Stereo Amplifier running ~60hz and up
Polk LSi-9s on Sanus Cherry Natural Foundations 30" stands
Polk MicroPro 2000 1200wrms 8" Sub with passive radiator running ~60hz and down
Monster Cable THX 1000 and Interlink 400 interconnects
Standard Monster Cable 14-gauge copper speaker wire

LessisNevermore

philipjr wrote: »

Does anyone feel upgraded cables are really worth the money in a system in this price range?

Absolutely. Look for some Signal, AudioQuest, or entry level MIT's. They can be found used, for not much more money than the 'M' brand, and IMO are better. (after using MC very similar to yours)

I have MIT EXp1 speaker wire right now, that I bought from another Polkie, and I like what it does...enough so, that I will be working my way up their lines at some point. I got this for a pretty reasonable price, and have even seen it cheaper, here and there. (A-'gon)

Glad you are digging your new toy! Keep breaking that stuff in, and enjoy the ride.

philipjr

LessisNevermore wrote: »

Absolutely. Look for some Signal, AudioQuest, or entry level MIT's. They can be found used, for not much more money than the 'M' brand, and IMO are better. (after using MC very similar to yours)

I have MIT EXp1 speaker wire right now, that I bought from another Polkie, and I like what it does...enough so, that I will be working my way up their lines at some point. I got this for a pretty reasonable price, and have even seen it cheaper, here and there. (A-'gon)

Glad you are digging your new toy! Keep breaking that stuff in, and enjoy the ride.

Will do bro. Thanks for the tip on the cable brands. I know that kind of stuff can be hard to quantify, but what change in the sound did you notice when you added the new speaker cables? My system just got brighter with the new preamp, and I guess cables have to be chosen carefully so that they accentuate the right aspects of your system... Your thoughts?

philipjr

LessisNevermore wrote: »

Look for some Signal, AudioQuest, or entry level MIT's. They can be found used, for not much more money than the 'M' brand, and IMO are better. (after using MC very similar to yours)

I have MIT EXp1 speaker wire right now, that I bought from another Polkie, and I like what it does...enough so, that I will be working my way up their lines at some point. I got this for a pretty reasonable price, and have even seen it cheaper, here and there. (A-'gon)
.

Wow - $500 new for a pair of 10-footers... That must be some effect it has on your system if you feel they are worth that! So what exactly changed when you added them?

LessisNevermore

philipjr wrote: »

Will do bro. Thanks for the tip on the cable brands. I know that kind of stuff can be hard to quantify, but what change in the sound did you notice when you added the new speaker cables? My system just got brighter with the new preamp, and I guess cables have to be chosen carefully so that they accentuate the right aspects of your system... Your thoughts?

philipjr wrote: »

Wow - $500 new for a pair of 10-footers... That must be some effect it has on your system if you feel they are worth that! So what exactly changed when you added them?

Ahh the beauty of buying used.;) I think I paid $150 for 3. (R,C,L)
Yes, I still consider that amount to be significant, but there is very little risk. If you don't like them, or they don't meet your price/performance criteria, you can unload them for very little/no loss, either here, or the sale site of your choice.

As for what specifically the cables added, I haven't done a head-to-head comparison to my old generic stuff, but in short, bass tightened up a bit, I did notice a slight shelving at around 4kHz. (only noticeable to me on one particular song) The overall sound is just a little more pronounced, kind of like an already good recording that has been remastered. Try whatever you can afford, and decide what works for you, you'll know it when you hear it.

philipjr

Hi guys - quick update on my system... Came across a little money and decided to upgrade amplification from the Emotiva UPA-2 to dual UPA-1 monoblocks. Was expecting better seperation, less crosstalk, improved dynamics, etc., but this turned out much better than I had hoped. Was definitely worth the investment with the spring sale they have going on right now. Was able to get both amps for $300 each free shipping instead of $350, and I figure I can get $250 or so for the UPA-2 when I sell it. This is my first experience with running dual monoblocks and I must say I may never go back to 2-channel amps if it makes this much of a difference. I know there is way better out there but with my limited means for purchasing equipment I have to give these amps some credit. They sound way better than what they cost. I know the components inside are higher quality than those in the UPA-2, but I honestly did not expect that huge of an improvement in even low volume listening. Main differences I notice so far (and I have only had these hooked up for a couple of hours and have not been able to crank them with the kiddo asleep and all) is way more extended and detailed treble (but no harshness - makes the UPA-2 seem almost dark by comparison), warmer midrange, and tighter, more accurate midbass. I am surprised they sound this good right out of the box. The LSI-9s seem to blend better with the Micropro 2000 now - a more seamless transition from the midbass to bass and then on to the really low stuff. Staging has improved significantly (LOTS more depth), as well as the imaging. Will report back in after I have had a chance to listen more and with a little more volume, but just from swapping out amplification and this initial listening session I can already tell I am MUCH closer to the kind of sound I have wanted all along to get from this system. Anyone else on here running these amps currently? What are your impressions? Anyone have any advice for getting the best out of these? Last August when I got the UPA-2 a few folks on here said get a better amp. I really liked that amp, so it made me feel a bit bad about my new UPA-2 but now I see what they were talking about. Thanks for all the advice guys - this upgrade really made a huge difference in my system! It really is very noticeable... -Phil

B Run

Hey Phil, glad to hear you're happy with the new amps! I was wondering how much of an improvement it would be, good to hear it was worth it.

philipjr

Hey Brandon!

Yeah it looks like this was money well spent. You definitely need to drop by soon to check it all out - I'll have a cold beer waitin' on ya! Kind of amazing what you can put together with modestly-priced but solid equipment and a little patience... Hit me up with a PM brother, and we'll make it happen soon. Don't have the kiddo this weekend so that may be a good time for a cold beverage and a listening session. Have a great week man!

Phil

IRLRaceFan

The UPA-1's are nice amps; I'm running a pair with Monitor 70's, but that will change when my LSi9's get delivered this week. :biggrin:
Reading your impression of the combo really has me excited now!

I'm also going to try the 9's out with my Carver amp.

philipjr

I would like to hear these UPA-1s on Monitor 70s - I sold my 70s a while back but I really liked them. They had a big rock sound to them and I think I actually prefer themover the LSi-9s for heavy tunes... Let me know how they work out for you they should power those 70s nicely. On the LSI-9s the dynamics are incredible -yeah they put out 350 watts each into a 4ohm load, but the 70s are more efficient. The 9s take a lot of power to really wake up and snap to. The 70s can create a wall of sound with just a modest amount of power. As far as bang for the buckgoes, they are hard to beat, especially if you grab them off NewEgg or something for less than half of retail.

Brandon - you are still running my old 70s, right? How much did they improve running off of your new Adcom? All I had at that time was a 2-channel Onkyo and they rocked. Would love to hear your impressions of them with some ample wattage running to them. I always felt there was a sleeping giant in there waiting to come out and ravage the countryside LOL

P

philipjr

By the way, giving the LSi-9s a good workout right now with the new amps on all kinds of music. I noticed that my UPA-2 sounded better as it broke in some - I expect a similar improvement with the UPA-1s, but they sound pretty damn good fresh out of the box. Did you notice any improvement in SQ while breaking them in? These things have some pretty impressive headroom, and I have to concur with others on the forum that the LSi-9s can handle some serious power. They don't seem to break a sweat no matter what I throw at them, and if it is possible to clip these UPA-1s on this setup I wouldn't be able to be in the same room, that's for sure. They just get louder and louder with very little distortion. I feel like I got my money's worth and more. I will post as they break in and let you know if the sound changes any, and how. Let me know how you like them on your LSi-9s when they come in. Just FYI - those 9s take a good 100 hours at least to start to break in and get really smooth, so expect that so you are not disappointed. Don't worry man - it just gets better and better as you get more play time on them. Keep us posted!

BTW - what are you feeding your UPA-1s with? I have the USP-1 pre-amp and I found it made a big difference in the sound, especially with the imaging and stage depth. Running analog into it from my Xonar Essence in the PC. I like the DACs in this soundcard. It is expensive as far as soundcards go, but pretty cheap compared to alot of outboard DACs. I think it's a steal. Good bang-for-the-buck setup...

P

IRLRaceFan

I just got my LSi-9's out of the box a hour ago, unplugged my M70's, plugged in the 9's and...WOW!
Listened to Rush, Pink Floyd, and now rockin' some live Doors. These things really have a lot of bass. I'll try the Carver amp with 'em this weekend.

The UPA-1's work nice with the Monitor 70's. I really didn't notice much of a change from "breaking in" the amps.

B Run

Actually I sold the monitor series I got from you and bought the Rti series. I first had them paired with a Yamaha receiver which I hated, too thin and bright. I bought the Pioneer 1120 and liked the overall sound, but it lacked the punch and fullness I was looking for. Once I got the Adcom I was really happy with the results I got. Buying an aftermarket power cord, new speaker wire, Signal Cable interconnects and a nice Hospital grade outlet was the icing on the cake. It's such a cleaner more open sound and i'm very happy with everything right now. If your still down to drink a few beers and listen to some tunes this weekend i'll bring over that power cable and 2 interconnects and let you see what you think.

philipjr

Yeah the 9s are a little crazy on the midbass - only way to get them to sound proper is to moves them at least 3-4 feet away from all walls. Believe me, I have tried everything else LOL, even including draping towels over the ports in back to calm down the backwave. It is pretty surprising how much output they have in the lower registers considering the drivers are so small. Until I got used to them, I thought at first I should have gotten the 7s instead. Thanks for the feedback on the UPA-1s - even if this is as good as they ever sound, that is pretty damn good : )

As far as your new 9s go, they WILL improve with time. It's debateable whether or not a break-in period improves the sound of modest-priced amplifiers, but with speakers it is a given. The suspensions on the drivers will loosen up and settle in, and the difference is very noticeable. Great to hear you are enjoying the sound of them right out of the box - they will sound better and better as time goes on, and it is most definitely not a placebo effect. I would be interested in knowing what differences you notice as you put a few miles on them. I found the midbass settled down a bit and the lows became smoother. The tweets take some getting used to if you are used to brighter speakers, but as you get to know them better you will realize that they have more than ample extension but are very smooth with no hint of harshness playing back decent source material. Coming from the RTi-A series like I did, they sounded a bit flat at first by comparison, but I realize now that they are much more indicative of what the source material truly should sound like reproduced in a listening room. Also, I am 36 and spent way too many nights at live shows in my younger years (still do, I must confess - living in Austin is no good for preserving your hearing), so part of that may be my beat-up ears haha. I hope they bring you many hours/days/years of enjoyment - I know mine do! Let me know if you need any advice setting them up. I can tell you they like a bit of toe-in, depending on what distance you are listening from. Experiment with placement in your room that will make a huge difference. Play material you know well and adjust as needed...

Good luck bro!

P

philipjr

Hey Brandon! Yeah I am definitely still down. Maids are coming in the morning but should be through by 2 at the latest. Wife has work to do but she works on the laptop down in the basement so we have her blessing ; )

What kind of beer do you like? I can swing by Twin tomorrow after work and grab us some brews...

I would love to see if I can hear an audible difference with your power cable, but I have three - one for preamp and two for the amps - so not sure if only swapping out one will make a difference. I guess if you only bring one then perhaps the pre-amp would be the one to swap out. I have the USP-1 and UPA-1s plugged into a surge protector with some basic power conditioning built in so that may prevent any improvement that we might otherwise notice. I know for a fact that upgraded interconnects and speaker cable can make a difference, but I have always been skeptical about the bang-for-the-buck factor, and I have never been able to convince myself that throwing down on custom power cables might be worth it... Also, your interconnects would only swap out with the RCAs running between my pre-amp and amps, the set running between my PC and the pre-amp is a pretty long run. My understanding is that any improvement that better cables will bring you is pretty much dependant on the weakest link in the chain, so replacing everything at the same time is essential for reaping the rewards of that kind of upgrade. I still would like to give it a go and see if we can tell any difference. Sounds fun!