Music Hall dac25.2 w/ stock tube.
pearsall001
Posts: 5,068
Kudo's to Roy Hall for such a trememdous sounding unit at an affordable price. This dac came highly recommended by Stephen Monte the owner of Quest for Sound in Bensalem, Pa. I've known Stephen for years & he's always been a straight shooter in giving his advice & recommendations. On that note I figured I'd give the dac a whirl in my system. Stephen forwarned me that the dac wouldn't be leaving my house.
Well, Stephen must be physic because he hit the nail right on the head. It hasn't nor is it leaving my house. I really didn't know what to expect because my system already sounds terrific with a wide & deep soundstage, pin-point imaging (even 3-4ft off axis), and plenty of PRAT that just makes listening to music "Fun".
Well, to be to the point the dac even with it's stock EH Russian 6922 tube opened things up even more & has expanded on all of the above attributes of my system. More of a great sounding system is always a good thing in my book. Without getting technical, the dac flat out added two more n's on the word "Fun". Stephen also said that even though the dac sounds fantastic with it's stock tube he will recommend other tubes for my "tube rolling" adventure that will raise the bar even further. But for now I'm simply enjoying it as is.
And when it comes to tubes Stephen sure knows his stuff!! So I'll be all ears when he recommends one for my listening tastes.
Well, Stephen must be physic because he hit the nail right on the head. It hasn't nor is it leaving my house. I really didn't know what to expect because my system already sounds terrific with a wide & deep soundstage, pin-point imaging (even 3-4ft off axis), and plenty of PRAT that just makes listening to music "Fun".
Well, to be to the point the dac even with it's stock EH Russian 6922 tube opened things up even more & has expanded on all of the above attributes of my system. More of a great sounding system is always a good thing in my book. Without getting technical, the dac flat out added two more n's on the word "Fun". Stephen also said that even though the dac sounds fantastic with it's stock tube he will recommend other tubes for my "tube rolling" adventure that will raise the bar even further. But for now I'm simply enjoying it as is.
And when it comes to tubes Stephen sure knows his stuff!! So I'll be all ears when he recommends one for my listening tastes.
"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
Post edited by pearsall001 on
Comments
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Stephen never misses Phil! Great stuff. If he says to roll particular tubes into the DAC, DO IT!!! When I bought my Raysonic he suggested some JAN NOS tubes. Beardog (Robert) sent me a few sets and what I thought already sounded like that open airy vinyl sound really opened up with the new tubes.
Be prepared to be WOW'd! -
Did you have a standalone DAC before the Music Hall? Or was this your first standalone DAC?
Jason2-Channel - So far...
Pre: Dodd ELP
DAC: W4S-Dac2
Source(s): Computer and Denon 2910
Amp: Parasound HCA-1200II
Speakers: LSi9s - Vr3 Fortress Mod -
Based on a photo of the innards and the price, I had high expectations for this DAC; good to hear it didn't disappoint.
I really don't understand why there aren't more good DACs at its price point; it never stuck me as obvious that a good DAC (even with a brand name) has to cost $1k or more...
(EDIT: in the interest of disclosure, I use a really cheap Zhaolu DAC that has been extensively fiddled with - no tubes in it, though) -
hearingimpared wrote: »Stephen never misses Phil! Great stuff. If he says to roll particular tubes into the DAC, DO IT!!! When I bought my Raysonic he suggested some JAN NOS tubes. Beardog (Robert) sent me a few sets and what I thought already sounded like that open airy vinyl sound really opened up with the new tubes.
Be prepared to be WOW'd!
Joe, Stephen has recommended a few tubes already... GE NOS 6922, Panco Russian Super Tube, Amperex Bugle Boy NOS (1958) & Marconi 6DJ8 (late 50's). Right now I'm leaning towards the Bugle Boy. I'll keep you posted.Did you have a standalone DAC before the Music Hall? Or was this your first standalone DAC?
Jason
I've had a few...Benchmark, Van Alstine, & TAD DAC. They were all very good & I had a lot of fun with them. They were all a lot more money then the MH which has me scratching my head. This MH is just a steal for the price (hell even if was double)."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
how are you using your DAC? are you using the USB connection or using a CDP as a transport with the digital out into this DAC?
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how are you using your DAC? are you using the USB connection or using a CDP as a transport with the digital out into this DAC?
I'm using the digital out from my CDP. That's another great thing about this DAC is it's connectivity choices...coax (s/pdif), optical, USB & XLR. Pretty much has all bases covered."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
pearsall001 wrote: »That's another great thing about this DAC is it's connectivity choices...coax (s/pdif), optical, USB & XLR.
I've been interested in DAC's with USB inputs....
What's the difference between running a USB out from your computer instead of a spdif out? My sound card has optical and coax digital outs, but would a USB out sound better???
2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
falconcry72 wrote: »I've been interested in DAC's with USB inputs....
What's the difference between running a USB out from your computer instead of a spdif out? My sound card has optical and coax digital outs, but would a USB out sound better???
Sampling rates. It all depends what the DAC can handle.Truck setup
Alpine 9856
Phoenix Gold RSD65CS
For Sale
Polk SR6500
Polk SR5250
Polk SR104Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec. -
In its price range the Dac 25.2 is a very nice unit and a definite terrific performer. However, moving up into quality above $1k in direct comparison to the Neko D100 and the Sim D300 their was a significant improvement in resolution over the MH. The better the dac, the more fog is cleared away from the music.Review Site_ (((AudioPursuit)))
Founder/Publisher Affordable$$Audio 2006-13.
Former Staff Member TONEAudio
2 Ch. System
Amplifiers: Parasound Halo P6 pre, Vista Audio i34, Peachtree amp500, Adcom GFP-565 GFA-535ii, 545ii, 555ii
Digital: SimAudio HAD230 DAC, iMac 20in/Amarra,
Speakers: Paradigm Performa F75, Magnepan .7, Totem Model 1's, ACI Emerald XL, Celestion Si Stands. Totem Dreamcatcher sub
Analog: Technics SL-J2 w/Pickering 3000D, SimAudio LP5.3 phono pre
Cable/Wires: Cardas, AudioArt, Shunyata Venom 3 -
In its price range the Dac 25.2 is a very nice unit and a definite terrific performer. However, moving up into quality above $1k in direct comparison to the Neko D100 and the Sim D300 their was a significant improvement in resolution over the MH. The better the dac, the more fog is cleared away from the music.
Nothing more than subjective opinions based on one's own ears. But I must say, I'm listening to some mighty fine fog then.
And I used to buy into that hogwash based on the price of gear. Not any more, I've learned my lesson that price is by no means a sure bet that it will out perform another of a lesser selling price. There's a lot of variables that go into the final selling price of a piece of gear, & I believe that the quality of parts is low on the list. "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
falconcry72 wrote: »I've been interested in DAC's with USB inputs....
What's the difference between running a USB out from your computer instead of a spdif out? My sound card has optical and coax digital outs, but would a USB out sound better???
It seems to vary quite a bit falconcry.. To some ears, a specific USB-capable DAC will sound better with the USB.. others a digital out from your source.. Most reviews suggest you just have to try both and see which one you like better. Like just about everything in audio, its very hard to say which would sound better to you.
But all options are reasonable ones
I personally love the USB connection from my netbook to the Peachtree Nova, but I don't have another digital out to compare against
Jason2-Channel - So far...
Pre: Dodd ELP
DAC: W4S-Dac2
Source(s): Computer and Denon 2910
Amp: Parasound HCA-1200II
Speakers: LSi9s - Vr3 Fortress Mod -
pearsall001 wrote: »Nothing more than subjective opinions based on one's own ears. But I must say, I'm listening to some mighty fine fog then. And I used to buy into that hogwash based on the price of gear. Not any more, I've learned my lesson that price is by no means a sure bet that it will out perform another of a lesser selling price. There's a lot of variables that go into the final selling price of a piece of gear, & I believe that the quality of parts is low on the list.
My statements are based upon direct comparison of the three units switching back and forth with the help of a sp meter, etc.. Yes, it is still subjective just like yours. I will agree that price is not always a predictor, as two of the dullest, and painfully two dimensional DACs I've heard both sell in the $2500 range, one being the Bel Canto. But parts have do have a lot more to do with it than you think along with execution of design.
I didn't slam the DAC25.2 at all, read my review in TONEAudio, I gave it some fine praise, and Roy Hall did a really terrific job on it especially for $599. But I've had a chance to hear it in one of the most revealing, highest resolution systems around, along with my own system which is pretty damn good, and sorry, but it has its limitations.
For the price you got an excellent value unit, no doubt about it, and you'll have endless hours of enjoyment. And depending on your system moving up the chain may not be worth the performance/price improvement. But neither of us are close to the mountain top, you're in the Cascade range of DAC quality and I'm in the Rockies. Mount Everest is the DCS Paganini for now.
Enjoy!Review Site_ (((AudioPursuit)))
Founder/Publisher Affordable$$Audio 2006-13.
Former Staff Member TONEAudio
2 Ch. System
Amplifiers: Parasound Halo P6 pre, Vista Audio i34, Peachtree amp500, Adcom GFP-565 GFA-535ii, 545ii, 555ii
Digital: SimAudio HAD230 DAC, iMac 20in/Amarra,
Speakers: Paradigm Performa F75, Magnepan .7, Totem Model 1's, ACI Emerald XL, Celestion Si Stands. Totem Dreamcatcher sub
Analog: Technics SL-J2 w/Pickering 3000D, SimAudio LP5.3 phono pre
Cable/Wires: Cardas, AudioArt, Shunyata Venom 3 -
USB needs to be asyncronous............many budget and even mid-priced dac's aren't. If they aren't asyncronous all the noise the computer creates will be passed on thru the dac.
Phil, parts quality is just as important as the design, sometimes even moreso. I added better op-amps, better caps to the power supply and analog section of my 12 year old Adcom dac and the improvement was stunning. It's a very, very good desing already but more modern parts took it to a whole new level.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
pearsall001 wrote: »Nothing more than subjective opinions based on one's own ears. But I must say, I'm listening to some mighty fine fog then. And I used to buy into that hogwash based on the price of gear. Not any more, I've learned my lesson that price is by no means a sure bet that it will out perform another of a lesser selling price. There's a lot of variables that go into the final selling price of a piece of gear, & I believe that the quality of parts is low on the list.
I agree with everything you've said Phil except for the bolded part. A manufacturer put high quality components in a piece of gear it both costs a hell of a lot more and sounds better by leaps and bounds.
Look at all the modding companies out there that change out the stock components for very high quality components, especially the ones who do mods to Music Hall gear, they all get fabulous reviews.
http://www.underwoodhifi.com/mods.html
Just to add, I made a $400 investment in Soniccaps & Mills resistors with Cardas posts for my 1.2TLs and improvement in SQ was off the charts . . . you heard them! Now let's say Polk started puttig that type of quality components in their speakers, don't you think the price hike would be sustantial? -
pearsall001 wrote: »Nothing more than subjective opinions based on one's own ears. But I must say, I'm listening to some mighty fine fog then. And I used to buy into that hogwash based on the price of gear. Not any more, I've learned my lesson that price is by no means a sure bet that it will out perform another of a lesser selling price. There's a lot of variables that go into the final selling price of a piece of gear, & I believe that the quality of parts is low on the list.
I totally understand what you guys are saying about quality parts. You simply missed the most important part in my statement (see above highlighted). I'm not talking about the sound of the gear but how a manuf. comes to it's "selling price". Case in point, I believe Esoteric & others make a CD player that tips the scale at a whopping 10K or better. Quality parts...yes but probably a small fraction of the actual "selling price". And guys even have them modded with "better" parts...sheessh!!! I also think Krell has a 60K pair of mono blocks. Quality parts...yes but probably a small fraction of the actual "selling price". Manuf. are in business to make money & they know exactly how much they can get away with.
I just believe that the MH dac25.2 is a perfect example of what can be accomplished when a manuf. designs the piece to be sold at a reasonable price yet performs above it's "selling price". And of course the MH can also be modded to elevate it's performance if one chooses. This is where your higher quality parts come into play. But for me now I'll just have some fun trying different tubes."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
I use the MH with my pc and like it a lot. I like the sound of the lower oversampling better than the higher.Vinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want...
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Sorry Pal but I disagree. If Roy Hall used high end components in his MH DAC 25.2 the price of that bad boy would easily double. I don't doubt that it performs above it's selling price but Esoteric or Krell don't just base their selling price on R & D, design, prototypes, testing etc (which surely makes a big difference in price) the quality of the piece of gear is what makes it. Sure you can upgrade and improve anything but put high end components in a piece of gear and you are sure to see double the selling price compared to if they used lesser quality components.
Take my clamp for instance. It took me a year to get the design, proper components for mechanical impedance matching, prototypes, testing, tight tolerances etc right for it to perform the way it does. Back then the materials I used were inexpensive and that's not the reason I used them. Those materials not just the design are what make it work so much better than other clamps out there. Now with all the R & D and design long behind me the materials now (due to demand for those materials in China among other places) costs are significantly higher.
Do you remember when I had Stephen check out getting them being remade with his contacts in China machine shops? Our biggest problem according to those shops was the cost of the materials used. In order to keep the price down to a reasonable selling price we would have had to have 1000 of them made. If I went with cheaper materials, sure the design of the way the clamp works would still take out LP warps but that is only a small portion of what the clamp does and cheaper materials would take away from the overall performance of the device. There's no compromise there! I need to use those materials and tight tolerances to get the maximum performance which is a big part of the clamp design. -
IIRC, Esoteric's DAC, the D-07 is about $4k, not 10. They're not even in the same ball park, not even close."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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The thing is we all want to say "price isn't a real indicator of quality" but really when you start talking about higher performing audio....................it is. Now that doesn't mean someone can't come along and give better performance for the dollar occasionally. But sorry Phil, as good as the MH is, the higher priced uints that perform better do justify the higher selling price in most cases.
But that begs the question: Are you willing to pay 3-4 times the price for that extra 10%? Some are willing some aren't. The best thing about your rig is that you are enjoying it and that's all that matters.
I am always searching for the best possible sound which fits into my budget, whether it be tweaking something, finding the right tube, adding caps, just saying 'eff it and spending the money. Part of the the fun for me in this hobby is the chase to find great sounding gear at an affordable price. I have no allusions about my gear vs. true higher end gear that does ultimately sound better in most cases. Although the Aleph truly may be my last amp.
Could I go out and spend $10K on a rig, sure but what fun would that be.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Man, you guys are all over the map on this one. LOL!!! Not even close as to what I was talking about. "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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pearsall001 wrote: »Man, you guys are all over the map on this one. LOL!!! Not even close as to what I was talking about.
That's the beauty of short prose on the internet vs. face to face discussion's, lots and lots of room for interpretation
It's still a great thread.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
That's the beauty of short prose on the internet vs. face to face discussion's, lots and lots of room for interpretation
It's still a great thread.
H9
How true!!!
I just picked up a NOS Amperex Bugle Boy (1958) tube from Stephen at Quest for Sound for the dac25.2. I'm getting ready to fire 'er up now."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
For what it's worth my preamplifier takes the same type of tubes. My favorites hands down are the Amperex. I've tried Siemens, Mullards, Tungsram, Gold Aero, Sovateks. I just really like the sound of the Amperex. They are very dependable too. Best luck with your new toy! DJ
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pearsall001 wrote: »How true!!!
I just picked up a NOS Amperex Bugle Boy (1958) tube from Stephen at Quest for Sound for the dac25.2. I'm getting ready to fire 'er up now.
How long did he say they would take to burn-in? -
hearingimpared wrote: »How long did he say they would take to burn-in?
Hey Joe, Stephen said to give it a good 100hrs. However it sounds incredible already!!"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
