Lsi9 crossover upgrade

Norm Apter

I've been running my Lsi9s with upgraded crossovers for a few weeks now. I think many here are familiar with Ben's work; for those who are not:
the standard package is replacement of the original caps with Sonicaps (highs) and Daytons (lows) as well as Mills resistors. This is what I had him do for me.

After a flurry of upgrades in 2008 and the first half of 2009, my economic situation of late dictates that I could probably afford only one audio purchase/upgrade this year. I decided on the speaker crossover upgrade and I don't regret it one bit.

Night and day difference? Yes and no. I think it comes down to two sets of variables. 1) Quality of recording and 2) type of music. I notice a huge improvement on good to excellent recorded CDs (I don't spin vinyl). With these, yes, I would say night and day difference. On dull and flat sounding recordings there is not much of a difference at all. They don't sound worse (as I have a pretty neutral source) but just not really better (the mantra 'garbage in, garbage out' rings truer and truer). Second, I notice the biggest improvement in hard rock (Zeppelin), rap/hip-hop (Beastie Boys, Eminem, The Roots) and electronica (Animal Collective). I've always thought these speakers handled jazz and soft/acoustic music (i.e. early Elliott Smith, Bon Iver) with excellence (and they still do)...probably classical too but I'm not there yet. But I never would have guessed that I'd equally enjoy listening to these other genres on this system.

I'm also a little surprised at my initial findings -- since Sonicaps seem to have a slightly better reputation than Daytons (no?) I am surprised to find that for me what sticks out most on the musical spectrum is the improvement on the low end. In particular, the snare drums, bass and lower tones of piano just have this really rich, life-like presentation. Much more heft and weight than before. (A drum solo at the end of the 3rd song on Fiona Apple's When the Pawn just blows me away now, for example). I might just need some more time to evaluate the highs.

After playing one of my wife's CDs (HDCD) for her, I asked her if she noticed a difference. She described the sound as much more "3D" than before -- she has a very good ear, having taken piano lessons for several years, but might lack the vocabulary typically used in audio forums...moreover she's not a native English speaker -- but I think what she was getting at was improved imaging. The sounds of the various instruments (and voice) just sort of leap out at you with a vibrancy that wasn't as obvious prior to the upgrade. Again, I should mention that this was a very nice recording.

In short, I loved the musicality of the Lsi9s to begin with. Thats why I didn't really consider selling these and moving on to something else. I feel this upgrade (at least for me in my system) has allowed me to retain all of the strong features of the speakers while at also enabling them to handle other kinds of music very well, making them an even more versatile speaker.

Where to go from here? Who knows but I can tell you one thing for sure...when I do have the ability to upgrade again, it will NOT have anything to do with speakers.

Oh, and great job Ben!

Rev. Hayes

Nice write up!

The fact that you hear the rock was improved the most pushes me even further in the direction of doing the same to my 9's. If I could make Zep and Animal Collective (:cool:) sound as good through these speakers as Miles Davis adn Julie London do then I would probably stop surfing CL for speakers every weekend. Well.... maybe

I'm about to do my Mon 10's and the result will likely be the "straw" one way or the other.

curved

How many hours do you have on them?

fishbones

Norm,

Congratulations....and thanks for the review!

If I may, I had some questions for you, or anyone else that may have modded theirs. If I understand you correctly, you said that SQ didn't change that much on poorly recorded music, but was a big improvement on good recordings, yet you say some of the biggest improvements were on rock? I mostly listen to rock, and a good portion of it is poorly recorded - compared to classical for instance. Were the discs you were listening to good recordings, or was it the better quality bass and rythym that increased the satisfaction of the rock recordings? I'm looking at a possible purchase of LSi9's in the future, and the xover mod is very interesting to me, so I'd like to understand further?

Also, did you notice the sonic signature change in the speakers? They are supposed to be warm and a little laid back stock. Would you say they get brighter, or just clearer? And did they get more forward, or stay the same?

Thanks, Troy

Norm Apter

curved wrote: »

How many hours do you have on them?

Ben recommends at least 80 hours for burn-in. And 300-400 for them to fully settle in.

I haven't been as fastidious as I should have been in taking note of playing time but I've had them back for exactly 3 weeks and would say that I average about 5 hours a day -- so maybe 100 hours so far.

Norm Apter

fishbones wrote: »

Norm,

Congratulations....and thanks for the review!

If I may, I had some questions for you, or anyone else that may have modded theirs. If I understand you correctly, you said that SQ didn't change that much on poorly recorded music, but was a big improvement on good recordings, yet you say some of the biggest improvements were on rock? I mostly listen to rock, and a good portion of it is poorly recorded - compared to classical for instance. Were the discs you were listening to good recordings, or was it the better quality bass and rythym that increased the satisfaction of the rock recordings? I'm looking at a possible purchase of LSi9's in the future, and the xover mod is very interesting to me, so I'd like to understand further?

Also, did you notice the sonic signature change in the speakers? They are supposed to be warm and a little laid back stock. Would you say they get brighter, or just clearer? And did they get more forward, or stay the same?

Thanks, Troy

Anybody else should feel free to chime in, especially because I'm still registering my impressions mentally, but here is my take:

Let me start with the second question since that is a little less complex. No, I don't believe the Lsi sound signature has changed fundamentally. I wouldn't describe the sonic changes as brighter or more forward. Things are just clearer -- i.e. instruments more distinct and more vibrant.

Addressing your first sets of questions: yes, I guess there is a sliding scale of excellent to poorly recorded albums and evaluations may be subjective...and there is a sliding scale of what one considers to be 'rock.' (I'm not sure what kind of rock you like). So, here are a few that sound particularly good to me with the mods:

Red Hot Chili Peppers - Blood Sugar Sex Magik
Beatles - Box Set (2009 remasters)
Fiona Apple - When the Pawn
Fiona Apple - Extraordinary Machine
Beck - Sea Change
Beck - Midnight Vultures
The Who - Who's Next (MFSL)
The Who - Live at Leeds (MFSL)
Tori Amos - Under the Pink
Arcade Fire - Funeral
Elliott Smith - Figure 8
Sting - Dream of the Blue Turtles (MFSL)
The Shins- Wincing the Night Away
Wilco - Wilco (The Album)
Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here (CBS Mastersound)


To give a counter-example, just yesterday I put in 10,000 Maniacs In My Tribe. In the past I hadn't noted the quality of the recording, but it just sounded terribly flat and dull.

These are just my early impressions. I know that there a number of threads that deal with Lsi-mods in the DIY, Mods and Tweaks section so you might search there for additional impressions.

fishbones

Thanks Norm! Let us know after another couple months if anything changes with break-in.

Norm Apter wrote: »

Sting - Dream of the Blue Turtles (MFSL)

...Good album! Haven't broke this one out in awhile. You made me want to dig it out.

Norm Apter

anonymouse wrote: »

The low end sound better partly because the high end is clarified. I have the same mod on my 9s - Sonicaps in the highs and Dayton's on the lows.

Now that I think about it, that makes perfect sense. I never would have thought of it that way. Thanks for mentioning this.