Carver AV-705x amp + Monitor speakers

EndersShadow

Ok, so had like 20 minutes to hook it up and test it before I had to head to my sisters tonight. And its late writing this update so hopefully it makes sense. If not I will try to clarify tomorrow morning...

I hooked up all 5 channels but got nothing from my front right speaker, which was on channel 5. I checked the pre-out connection to ensure it was properly seated, check. Check wiring to ensure positives connected to positives, check. Still nothing.

So I switched the right front connection on the carver with the rear right which did work. Nothing from the right front connection, but the right rear (now on channel 5 which didnt work 2 seconds ago) had sound.

So my instant thoughts are the following:

1) The Integra preout for the Front Right is bad (thankfully its still under warranty)
2) The carver has an issue with all channels driven (unlikely IMO)
3) I got a bad RCA cable from Monoprice/its just not seated correctly....

I will have more time tomorrow afternoon/evening to mess with it. My first plan of attack is to use an entirely different RCA cable to see if its just the cable. If its the cable I will just return to Monoprice. If I still get nothing I am going to switch the front speaker to a different connection to see if its the pre-out from the reciever. If this is the case I need to call it in for service. If neither of those work I might try switching the speaker wire with the wire from the left front which is working. If that solves the issue I just need to recut another wire. Any additional thoughts would be appreciated.

Ric5811

Well the front channels are 1,2 and 3 on the Carver. 2 being the center, 1 right, 3 left.

EndersShadow

Ric5811 wrote: »

Well the front channels are 1,2 and 3 on the Carver. 2 being the center, 1 right, 3 left.

I didnt even think about that. I just assumed it didnt matter what you hooked up to it pre-out wise. I will give that a shot. It would make sense though as I went how my speakers are hooked up like this:

1=left surround
2=left front
3=center
4=right surround
5=right front

The left front, center and surround all worked fine, but the right didnt....I will give it a try that way. Didnt know it mattered...:eek:

EndersShadow

So after messing around with the carver for about an hour it looks like the 5th channel is not working. I haven't had time to take the cover off (if that is even advisable) to see if there is something obviously wrong with it.

No matter what pre-out I use with it that channel seems to be out. Anyone have any idea on how expensive it would be to get it worked on? AKA is it not worth the cost?

My hope was that if all 5 channels worked I would bi-amp the fronts two (4 connections used) and then run the center. That would provide me the best possible sound IMO. But w/ only 4 channels working my options are to run the Fronts & Center from the Carver, and the surrounds from the Integra (currently what I am doing), or bi-amp the fronts and leave the center and surrounds on the Integra.

Anyone have any thoughts on if either of those would be better? Anyone local able to look at amps and identify whats wrong with them willing to come take a look maybe...

EndersShadow

Rick88 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with taking the cover off to inspect the inside. Just be sure to unplug it first!

I really am not sure what could be wrong with it or how much it could cost to repair it. I'm sure others will chime in here on this.

That I will do, but probably not for a week or so. My only thought might be to try it without banana plugs on the odd chance that has something to do with it. Otherwise I am at a loss. The plugs are all decently tight, not bend (at least on that one).

Can I use a can of compressed air on it on the odd chance there is some dust buildup internally causing issues?

EndersShadow

Started to think and began wondering if the amp's issue isnt a result of being connected through two powercords w/ lots of crap connected to it more than anything. I dont know if its having trouble grabbing enough power.

I have one belkin surge protector which has my DLP, Wii, Xbox360, Blu ray player & Reciever hooked up to it. From that I have another surrge protector running that has the Uverse DVR, Router, Battery backup and the amplifier on it.

I am wondering if I connect the amp direct to a different outlet if that might solve the problem. Since that doesnt require much work I think I am going to give that a shot today. I am going to connect it straight to the wall and then only drive channels 1,2,3,5. If that works it lets me know the problem is with driving all 5 channels (since 4 worked yesterday and isnt connected today). Then I will try powering 4 as well and then if one of the other channels goes out I will have verified its a 5 channels driven issue.

I really really want this think to have all 5 channels because that gives me the most options later on (bi-amped fronts + center, or 5 speakers driven).

Will report on how that goes later tonight. I am going to have a freind come help me since its just a PITA to have to get behind to run the wires and then test, and then go behind again. He can control the level calibration on the reciever to individually test each speaker as I connect it.

anonymouse wrote: »

Do what I said earlier - remove the cover, get some decent contact cleaner (DoOxIt or equivalent) and squirt some on the potentiometer (channel volume thingies) on the back. You have to get it into the place where the arm of the potentiometer touches the carbon surface inside the metal cylinder. Rotate the knob back and forth several times at normal speed after the squirt of cleaner. See if that helps. Those do go bad.

While you are in there, look for obvious signs of damage/burning on the non working board.

Will also try that....but it might be a bit since that is going to take some time. If you have any pics of what your talking about that would be extremely helpful.

nooshinjohn

Is the volume pot turned all the way up on the 5th channel? Also, the outer part of the RCA input appears to be rubbing against the case in the top right... is there a possibility a fuse may have blown as a result?

EndersShadow

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Is the volume pot turned all the way up on the 5th channel? Also, the outer part of the RCA input appears to be rubbing against the case in the top right... is there a possibility a fuse may have blown as a result?

I did check the volume pots..They are all turned up all the way. The RCA's on a couple of the working speakers are touching the casing as well as that doesnt appear to have caused any problems.

I am going to just re-wire everything to the reciever and take this thing apart later tonight to see what I can see. I will post some pictures of both the outside and inside in case you guys can see something obviously wrong.

Right now I am going to directly connect it to the wall on the chance its a power issue.

@Josh.....I am on the NW side of Indianapolis (86th and Michigan/Pyramids area)...dont know if you might be able to come take a look yourself (depending on how far you are away) sometime in the next couple weeks (if you are available/interested and provided my pics dont explain WTF is happening). Also any idea if one of the local hi-hi stores might be able to help take a look? Thinking Ovation maybe....

I also wouldnt be opposed to heading up to you if that was another option....let me know....at this point I just want to make sure I am not making a stupid mistake and hooking something up wrong/missing the obvious...

EndersShadow

Ok, so I am now officially stumped....I decided to do some more testing because well its irking me...

So I connected the amp straight to a wall jack with nothing else connected. I hooked up a couple different scenario's listed below:

Scenario 1
#1 = Right
#2 = Center
#5 = Front
Result = Sound from all Front three.....

Scenario 2
1= Right
2=Center
3=Left
5=Left Surround
Result= No audio from Left Surround

Scenario 3
1=Right
2=Center
3=Left
5=Right Surround
Results= No audio from Right Surround

Scenario 4
1=Right
2=Center
3=Left
4=Right Surround
Result= No audio from Right Surround

Scenario 5
1=Right
2=Center
3=Left
4=Right Surround
5=Left Surround
Result= No audio from Right Surround

So I took it apart (god there are a lot of screws) and will be posting pictures later tonight so you guys can help me see what could be wrong. On my initial look I cannot see anything wrong myself, but I am not an expert....

Ron Temple

ES, when you posted that the seller was going to do a dropoff, my nose began to itch. I'm sorry I pointed this to you. The price you paid was still good even if it was disclosed that one of the channels was wonky, however, the hassle is not good, especially in your situation. My recommendation, is to contact the seller, tell him the problem and see if he stands up.

Do you hear a difference or are you too focused on getting things working right?

EndersShadow

Ron Temple wrote: »

ES, when you posted that the seller was going to do a dropoff, my nose began to itch. I'm sorry I pointed this to you. The price you paid was still good even if it was disclosed that one of the channels was wonky, however, the hassle is not good, especially in your situation. My recommendation, is to contact the seller, tell him the problem and see if he stands up.

Do you hear a difference or are you too focused on getting things working right?

I honestly haven't had time to re-run Audysee, or even do much listening due to setup. I haven't watched much TV/movies this weekend either.

Its the hassle of determining what is wrong that is killing me. I might just say F* it and run the front three and call it a day. The only thing worrying me is that if its actually the Integra pre-outs that are bad...

That I don't know how to test. I am going to make a couple calls to where I bought my receiver from to see what their thoughts are. I would hate to have to take it to their store and test it there, but as long as I know the problem is the Carver I think I can handle/accept it. I think I need to sleep on it to make sure I have eliminated all the variables (possible bad RCA cable, shorted connection, lack of power, Integra pre-out issue)

Do you think I could find something similar for around that same price if I tried to return it to the seller?

Ron Temple

A 705X in good shape will sell north of $500. My guess is the seller had a problem, took it out of his system intending to fix it, but never got around to it or didn't have the money. I'm thinking he decided to sell at a low price, but didn't disclose. When he offered to drop it off...well you know the rest.

It could be something simple, but I think it's the amp. You might call Rita and get an opinion. I haven't read all your posts, but I think you said, you can get 4 channels working, but either 4 or 5 won't work if you try to connect the 5th (most often 5). Can you get 5 working all the time if there are no other channels connected?

I think it unlikely it's an IC.
It could be an Integra problem, but it's more likely something with the Carver.

I'd hook up the front 2 or 3 and do a serious A/B without Audyssey. Listen for the difference. If you're blown away then consider keeping it. If you're not, then call the guy tomorrow and discuss the problem.

No, you're not going to get a 5 channel amp for $250 (or whatever you paid). Maybe a 2 channel Adcom or Carver, but probably not with more power.

Ric5811

Looking at your test results, you might have 2 problems. One is the right surround channel on the integra the other is the 5 channel on the Carver.

EndersShadow

Ron Temple wrote: »

A 705X in good shape will sell north of $500. My guess is the seller had a problem, took it out of his system intending to fix it, but never got around to it or didn't have the money. I'm thinking he decided to sell at a low price, but didn't disclose. When he offered to drop it off...well you know the rest.

It could be something simple, but I think it's the amp. You might call Rita and get an opinion. I haven't read all your posts, but I think you said, you can get 4 channels working, but either 4 or 5 won't work if you try to connect the 5th (most often 5). Can you get 5 working all the time if there are no other channels connected?

I think it unlikely it's an IC.
It could be an Integra problem, but it's more likely something with the Carver.

I'd hook up the front 2 or 3 and do a serious A/B without Audyssey. Listen for the difference. If you're blown away then consider keeping it. If you're not, then call the guy tomorrow and discuss the problem.

No, you're not going to get a 5 channel amp for $250 (or whatever you paid). Maybe a 2 channel Adcom or Carver, but probably not with more power.

The 5th worked twice on me total, both times when only driving 4 channels. However the 4th didnt work once. I want to run some more tests with just three of the channels driven. I figure I hook up one front & center and then test the 5th channel w/ each of the other pre-outs on the Integra. If they all work try the same test only using the 4th channel. Then start adding more channels one by one and see what results I get....

I personally believe the problem is with the Carver, but like you said I might talk to Rita to get their thoughts....

Even if the difference isnt night and day I will still keep it if it can drive my front three. I say this because eventually I want to get some RTi A7's or 9's and I know those reward amplification well.

Ric5811 wrote: »

Looking at your test results, you might have 2 problems. One is the right surround channel on the integra the other is the 5 channel on the Carver.

Yeah, more testing is required....that and I need some time to ponder my results and come up with a better way to eliminate the possible variables one by one.

EndersShadow

I emailed Rita to get her opinion but honestly I think I will be better off returning the amp to the seller at this point. If I am unable to is it possible that I could sell it for what I purchased it for or am I going to have to lose some cash in the process?

Then the question becomes do I spring for the Emotiva UPA-5 new or a SVS PC-12NSD? Both will cost me around the same amount of coin.

Ron Temple

You should have contacted the seller immediately to discuss the problem.

EndersShadow

Carver Listening Impressions:

So I finally had some time to just listen to my setup with the Carver amp. I decided to hop onto Pandora through my blu-ray player and just listen to some music. Good Lord was I blown away. All thoughts of contacting the seller (which I had done but he didnt have the money to refund me at that time, so we were going to wait around a week to talk again, honestly think I should just consider the cash gone) to return the amp totally vanished within a couple minutes. The music came alive and every detail was much much much better pronounced than when on my receiver. It felt like I was hearing some of this music for the first time. I could actually differentiate the location of singers in certain songs (i.e.) they sounded like they were either to the right or left of the main vocalist, and hear tonal differences in some songs I had never heard before. Totally in awe right now to be honest.

I decided to take it a step further and throw the Blu Man Group 5.1 DTS audio cd I had into my Xbox 360 (blu-ray player laser is acting up) and listen to that. I have listened to it many many times before, but this time around I sincerely felt like I was at their concert. I got Goosebumps on my arms during some of the songs as the sound bounced back and forth across the speakers. Hell even my surrounds sounded better than they normally do and they were hooked up to the receiver!

So even though I can only get 4 of the 5 channels working (haven’t messed with it this week and may never mess w/ it again to be honest) I still consider it one of the best investments I have made to date. I might try to tinker with it sometime when I have more time to really see whats wrong, but with it so close to the wedding its going to be quite some time.....

I also purchased a Gramma sub isolation pad that should come in next week. Hopefully this will firm up my bass response and allow me to run it a little louder than normal w/o annoying the neighbors.

Ron Temple

EndersShadow wrote: »

Carver Listening Impressions:

So I finally had some time to just listen to my setup with the Carver amp. I decided to hop onto Pandora through my blu-ray player and just listen to some music. Good Lord was I blown away. All thoughts of contacting the seller (which I had done but he didnt have the money to refund me at that time, so we were going to wait around a week to talk again, honestly think I should just consider the cash gone) to return the amp totally vanished within a couple minutes. The music came alive and every detail was much much much better pronounced than when on my receiver. It felt like I was hearing some of this music for the first time. I could actually differentiate the location of singers in certain songs (i.e.) they sounded like they were either to the right or left of the main vocalist, and hear tonal differences in some songs I had never heard before. Totally in awe right now to be honest.

I decided to take it a step further and throw the Blu Man Group 5.1 DTS audio cd I had into my Xbox 360 (blu-ray player laser is acting up) and listen to that. I have listened to it many many times before, but this time around I sincerely felt like I was at their concert. I got Goosebumps on my arms during some of the songs as the sound bounced back and forth across the speakers. Hell even my surrounds sounded better than they normally do and they were hooked up to the receiver!

So even though I can only get 4 of the 5 channels working (haven’t messed with it this week and may never mess w/ it again to be honest) I still consider it one of the best investments I have made to date. I might try to tinker with it sometime when I have more time to really see whats wrong, but with it so close to the wedding its going to be quite some time.....

I also purchased a Gramma sub isolation pad that should come in next week. Hopefully this will firm up my bass response and allow me to run it a little louder than normal w/o annoying the neighbors.

I'm glad you got a chance to listen. To me the proof in the pudding is when you just connect the front speakers without the sub and listen to some CDs that you are familiar with. No Audyssey, just some straight music. Do some A/B between the AVR in Pure Direct mode with and without the amp. You should notice an increased transient response, better driver control and better bass. Most amps I've tried will throw a larger soundstage and, as you said, image better. I noticed a difference with a modest 80wpc amp with R50s when I first tried it 5 years ago.

As fair as your amp goes. You may have just the one bad channel and it could be easily fixed. Hopefully, there is no bleedover of the problem into the working channels. If you're keeping it, then down the road, you need to get it serviced. When it's brought back to spec, it will last for years.

EndersShadow

Ron Temple wrote: »

As fair as your amp goes. You may have just the one bad channel and it could be easily fixed. Hopefully, there is no bleedover of the problem into the working channels. If you're keeping it, then down the road, you need to get it serviced. When it's brought back to spec, it will last for years.

Thats the conclusion I came to. I have 250 in it. It will last for years with whatever speakers I will have and is worth the investment to get it fixed (at a later date). Like I said I still want to mess w/ it to determine whats going on to see if its easily correctable on my end..

silvertuner

i took a quick look at this carver this past saturday. it appeared that the rca input jacks had failed solder joints (obvious rings indicating the joints had failed). it showed signs of being pushed up against something with a little force, or maybe someone bumped into it while it was on a shelf.

i touched up the few solder joints that were bad on channels four and five, and am waiting to hear back from Dan on this. this amp is a freaking beast. also checked all of the usual carver stuff that seems to fail over time, seems they have issues with other solder joints failing and heat-sink adhesive failing. all that under VISUAL inspection seemed to be okay, again, VISUAL INSPECTION lol.

i am keeping my fingers crossed and hoping it was just this simple of a fix, but for some reason i will not hold my breath. if it does, Dan, you owe me Ruth Chris for a man-date... heh

EndersShadow

silvertuner wrote: »

if it does, Dan, you owe me Ruth Chris for a man-date... heh

would you settle for something from McD's 1$ menu instead ... cause you know I got to buy some new speakers and wires now....

Will report back if this solution worked or not when I get a chance to mess w/ it.

silvertuner

better get that shakeweight out then

EndersShadow

hehehe......

if it does work then we might need to get together again for some testing on the M60's biamped v. not.......

I know we did the M40's, but the M60's are in a much bigger area and have a lot more room to breathe......

and then if I get those "P" speakers we can have some real fun.....

EndersShadow

So the answer is that Matt's 30 second soder job did indeed fix the problem. I test it by splitting the signal for the L & R with a Y adaptor and then hooking up another set of speakers to ensure it all worked.

It did and now my 60's are bi-amped and let me tell you there is a pretty big change in the clarity and imaging of them.

They still dont go down real low, but I also havent re-run Audysee since I hooked up the amp either lol.... so that might change things a little.

I am currently listening to some symphonic music on my blu-ray player via pandora and its got lots of nice sound to it that wasnt there before.

silvertuner

you're welcome.... lol

EndersShadow

Also while messing around with my Integra last night came across the fact that when it went in for repairs it was totally reset....meaning my EQ settings from Audysee were not there....

looks like I need to re-run that and then re-evaluate the sound again. Hopefully it helps it out.....