Pioneer VSX-21TXH, Few Questions

AsSiMiLaTeD

I just picked up a Pioneer VSX-21TXH for a very good price open box at my local Best Buy, and have a few questions. I've asked these on avsforum, but wanted to ask here as well since this model has been discussed here before.

1 - I've noticed that I need to crank the receiver to about -25db before I get any decent volume out of it. I realize that this is an arbitrary number and is going to vary with speakers of different efficiency, but am wanting to know if this is generally in the ballpark. It seems a little high to me given my experience with other receivers, but wanted to see what you guys generally listen at.

2 - It looks like I can bi-amp with the other set of outputs. I don't need an explanation of bi-amping, what I'm really looking for is some practical experience any of you have with this receiver. Doe you guys notice any benefit? In theory it sounds good because you're using an extra set of outputs, but ultimately you're using the same power supply, and I would think the power supply is going to be the bottleneck, so does swapping power from one set of outputs to another really help? The only way I'd see it helping is if the amp section is a truly discrete design with each channel being completely independent of the others AND the power supply is enough to drive all the channel simultaneously, which I seriously doubt. Ultimately it sounds like with bi-amping you're just robbing from Peter to pay Paul.

3 - I noticed this receiver is only rated down to 6 ohms, what are your thoughts on this thing being able to power a set of Polk LSi7 and an LSiC up front? If I did it and it 'failed', would it more likely damage the speakers or the receiver, or both?

4 - This is more of a question related to Best Buy. Since this was an open box, I went against my tradition and paid $50 for a 5 year protection plan from Best Buy. It's the usual deal, if it gets damaged I bring it in and if they can't fix it they give me a new one. The question I have is what are they going to use as a guage to determine what to replace it with if it can't be fixed, the actual model itself or the price I paid? I paid less than half of retail, so if they use the price I'm gonna be screwed really, but if they use the model number I'd be fine, curious if any of you guys know about this.

TIA for any help.

bopicasso

1. It all depends on what db you have your speakers adjusted to when you used the setup mic. I have my 21txh set to -30db when I turn it on, and turn it all the way up to -10db when watching a movie. Usually watch tv around -17db. And this is with my speakers set to: center- -2db RF- 2.5db LF- 2db

2. My friend has this amp also, and uses rti8s. He tried both ways, biamped and just using one channel per speaker, and found that biamped produced a noticeable amount of more bass. So he decided to stay with biamped.

3. I would trust the ratings and not run 4 ohm speakers. I would think it would not do damage to the receiver but probably hurt the speakers if something were to happen. I run a 6 ohm center speaker with no problems. My 4 ohm towers are powered by my krell kav 300i.

4. It should have nothing to do with price paid, but the equivilant model, just from my experience with dealing with tvs and computers from bestbuy.

dane_peterson

1. What picasso said, it depends on the sensitivity of your speakers too. Using this volume setting, "0" should be reference level. I trust when you have it at 0, it's plenty loud. I wouldn't worry about it.

2. Several here have posted their positive impressions when bi-amping on their receiver. It certainly can't hurt with a pair of LSi's.

3. It wouldn't really "fail" so much as it could possibly get hot and struggle. This will only be an issue at higher volume levels. The speakers would benefit from external amplification, but your receiver won't blow up from this...

4. I can rarely justify extended plans from Best Buy or the like. I believe they have Service and Replacement plans. Do you know which you got?

EDUBAG

I own the vsx23 and here are somethings that i have found from mine.

1.- usually it comes alive around -25 , i usually listen to mine between -25 to -10, depending on the recording and source.

2.- i have rtia7 and biamped sounded fuller than not, especially for music. Movies are harder to appreciate the difference.

3.- i beleive that it can move the lsi7 but would not push the receiver below -15.

Good luck,

ed

PSOVLSK

I can't really comment on 1-3, but I'll share an experience I had with an extended warranty albeit at Fry's, not Best Buy.

I had an H/K 7200 that I took in and after a month or so they decided it couldn't be fixed so I would get a new unit. Since the 7200 was no longer in production, they obviously couldn't replace with the same "equivalent" unit. Well, when I got to the store to get my new AVR, they tried to give me a H/K 645 (I think that is the correct model number). I told them that the 7300 was the equivalent and that I wasn't going to take the 645. After about an hour of this "disagreement" I got the 7300 with the stipulation that my extended warranty wouldn't cover the new AVR.

I would think the warranty would have wording related to how they will replace it and what they will replace it with...for example "it will be replaced with an equivalent model."

FYI, the H/K I referenced isn't 4 ohm rated, but I successfully ran a full 5.1 LSi set-up with it. It got pretty warm, but it never shut down, went into protect mode, etc.

Sounds like a great deal on the Pioneer.

maximillian

Resurrecting this old thread because of item #4 of the parent post. I purchased this from Assimilated over 2 years ago. Worked great for 2 years, then no sound about 2 months ago. I use this with an Adcom GFA6000 and an LSi setup.

It took a while to get the warranty transferred to my name - about 2 months. After some complaining on their forums, one of their CS agents did something behind the scenes I think. They originally said it would take 6-8 weeks. So only after 2.5 weeks - the warranty is now in my name. Brought it in, and today my wife gets a call that they will be replacing it.

Before I go in I wanted to get an idea of what I am in for in order to get a good replacement. I need pre-outs, but this is only available on Pioneer Elite SC models. The lower end models do not have it. Then I looked at the protection plan contract:

"The total liability under this Plan is the fair market value of the product, as determined by us, not to exceed the original purchase price of your product, including taxes...In the event that the total of all authorized repairs exceeds the fair market value of the product or we replace the product, we shall have satisfied all obligations owed under the Plan."

So since all the models with pre-outs that BB currently sells is higher than the purchase price, then I will be paying out of pocket. I would think they discount the purchase price ($380) from any model. Looks like the SC72 is $1300, but that sucks because Amazon has it for $860 shipped. So even with the replacement credit, it's still more expensive compared to Amazon. Woohoo!

Anyone have more experience with this issue that can advise me on an additional options?

tonyb

John has new ones for around 600, give him a shout , maybe his store he works at is Pioneer authorized and your credit can apply there.

maximillian

Hello tonyb. Can you tell me who John is? Also, I think the credit is for BB only so couldn't be transferred to John's store. Of course, if the store he sells at advertises on the Internet at a lower price than BB's prices, and they are within 25 miles of a BB, then I could price match with BB.

Thanks for replying.

EndersShadow

maximillian wrote: »

Can you tell me who John is?

NooshinJohn is his forum name.

maximillian

Went into BB today. My local BB does not have any higher end AVR's in stock so no way I was getting another open box. Told one of the audio guys that I really needed pre-outs, and didn't care about the other features. Basically, the lowest end Pioneer Elite offered by BB with pre-outs is the SC-72. After reading on BB's website, they won't price match to online retailers like Amazon. Well, they said that they sometimes do, especially if my AVR bought under a service contract died. However, they said that it must be sold through Amazon, and not a "partner". Well, the SC-72 was advertised through a partner for $870, and BB could only sell it for $1300. After a little complaining (about 20 seconds worth) they agreed to give it to me for $870. With the defective AVR credit I was able to get the SC-72 for $500 after tax.

A good deal, but maybe not great. After the original used cost of the Pioneer VSX-21TXH I was able to get the SC-72 for about the Amazon "partner" price, but through BB instead of the partner. Still, not a bad deal.

I have to wait a little over a week for it to be shipped now. Then my HT system will be back to normal. Only took about 3 months to get corrected and working again. Yippee!

zane77

Sounds like you'll be coming out ahead in the end. Good luck with the new Pioneer.

maximillian

Thanks. As usual I was offered the extended warranty for 2 years for $100. I don't think it's worth it, anyone recommend otherwise?

recoveryone

You came out with a steal, getting a SC 72 for only $500. that 21 was only worth about $300, its two years old and it was a open box on top of that. As my Dad would say "you should be skining and grining" you went from a 5.1 system to a 7.2 gain an extra 20 watts D class amp

maximillian

Well, not really a "steal", but a good deal. The 21 is a 7.1 system. And if you take into account its cost plus the $500, then it's about the same price as on Amazon, albeit Amazon is through "Audio video sales guy". The amp is better, but I am powering a 5 channel LSi system with an old Adcom 6000 which is better than the internal amp on the Pioneer.

The really cool thing to take away from this is that BB will price match to Amazon in some circumstances even if their website says they don't.