Basic Bi-wiring vs -amping question

thetawave2

I'm pretty new to audio equipment. I'm trying to acquire a mate for my lonely monitor 30. In the meantime, I'm wondering about hooking them up!
I will (hopefully) soon have two Monitor 30's and two old Onkyo E-75's hooked up to an Onkyo TX-DS787.
Anyway, how should I wire up the Monitor 30's? I'm not sure I'm able to clone channels, which my friend says is necessary for proper bi-amping. He also suggests bi-amping won't give me any noticeable advantage since I'm using fairly decent wiring (12 gauge copper) and an amp that isn't underpowered. I was wondering if bi-wiring would give me a better sound than single wiring with the jumper plates. Perhaps one of you will even tell me my friend is way off.... I have read of some people even using separate amps for the highs and lows because of different characteristics of the amps, so perhaps the two inputs don't need to be exact clones as he thinks.

Anyway, thanks in advance for the help!

TNRabbit

IMO, bi-wiring is a waste if your wiring is up to par. Bi AMPING can clarify your setup, depending on a number of factors, including but not limited to speaker capabilities, amplifier power, listening levels, how picky you are, etc. The only way to know for sure? Try it yourself...

thetawave2

Thanks for the help! I'll do some experimentation soon.

thetawave2

Still wondering, by the way, whether channels need to be or should be "cloned" for bi-amping....
Anyone?

thetawave2

Also wondering if anyone is willing to buy or sell a single monitor 30....

Mon40CSMM10

I wouldn't recommend bi-wiring.

I tried it for a while, and the only benefit that was realized when I bi-wired the Monitor 40's I am using for front mains is that the receiver ran a bit cooler. Beyond that, I found the bass was punchier for the woofers, but that also the tweeter started to get harsh when the receiver volume was turned up to a louder volume than about halfway (e.g., -43 dB on a volume scale of -94 dB to -7 dB).

In contrast, when using the supplied jumpers the bass isn't as punchy but the tweeter also isn't as bright. This is not a problem to me since Monitor 40's used as front mains running with the jumper and not bi-wired blend in better with the PSW 110 subwoofer I am using.

TNRabbit

Mon40CSMM10 wrote: »

I wouldn't recommend bi-wiring.

I tried it for a while, and the only benefit that was realized when I bi-wired the Monitor 40's I am using for front mains is that the receiver ran a bit cooler. Beyond that, I found the bass was punchier for the woofers, but that also the tweeter started to get harsh when the receiver volume was turned up to a louder volume than about halfway (e.g., -43 dB on a volume scale of -94 dB to -7 dB).

In contrast, when using the supplied jumpers the bass isn't as punchy but the tweeter also isn't as bright. This is not a problem to me since Monitor 40's used as front mains running with the jumper and not bi-wired blend in better with the PSW 110 subwoofer I am using.

Mon, it sounds as though your wires may have been impedance mismatched . Same type? Same length? Same connectors?

thetawave2

I tried it for a while, and the only benefit that was realized when I bi-wired the Monitor 40's I am using for front mains is that the receiver ran a bit cooler. Beyond that, I found the bass was punchier for the woofers, but that also the tweeter started to get harsh when the receiver volume was turned up to a louder volume than about halfway (e.g., -43 dB on a volume scale of -94 dB to -7 dB).

In addition to my own use, these are going to be used at some rockin college parties. Punchy bass would be nice, but these things are going to be running pretty darn loud and I don't want the tweeters getting harsh. We have a pretty great sub for punchy bass, anyway. Also, my receiver is going to be running plenty cool with its built-in fan supplemented by external fans.
Thanks for the input!

mdaudioguy

Personally, for my level of gear, I'm happy replacing the jumpers with a couple of short pieces of good quality speaker wire and running a single (quality) speaker wire (from a decent amp) to each speaker. That's just me.

mdaudioguy

thetawave2 wrote: »

In addition to my own use, these are going to be used at some rockin college parties.

Things have changed... in my day, a rockin' college party usually involved at least a pair of 3 to 4 foot floorstanding speakers with 15" woofers!

hearingimpared

This thread by me will give an idea of how bi-amping your rig can produce excellent results.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50391

Also, bi-wiring by just using four sets of speaker wire for the two channels is useless IMHO unless you are using MIT bi-wire cables where they have the network boxes for the highs and the network boxes for the lows. I use MIT bi-wires and I have to tell you they really made my 1.2TLs come alive.

TECHNOKID

thetawave2 wrote: »

Also wondering if anyone is willing to buy or sell a single monitor 30....

Keep an eye open on the For Sale Forum here at Club Polk as with patience you will eventually find a good deal to match your budget and requirement.

BTW, for bi-amping you need external amps and if you are thinking about bi-amping your Monitor 40s, IMO you do not have much to gain in doing so.

Tour2ma

TNRabbit wrote: »

Mon, it sounds as though your wires may have been impedance mismatched . Same type? Same length? Same connectors?

Agree.. I've never heard of bi-wiring degrading sound... Improving or making no difference? Yes. But making worse? No.

tw2,
Best advice has already been given... play with the various alternatives and judge for yourself.

By "cloning channels" are you referring to Y-splitting the Pre-amp output? If yes, then yes, you may need to do this depending on your pre...

TNRabbit

hearingimpared wrote: »

This thread by me will give an idea of how bi-amping your rig can produce excellent results.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50391

Also, bi-wiring by just using four sets of speaker wire for the two channels is useless IMHO unless you are using MIT bi-wire cables where they have the network boxes for the highs and the network boxes for the lows. I use MIT bi-wires and I have to tell you they really made my 1.2TLs come alive.

Another TRUE bi-amping thread:

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103183&highlight=active

hearingimpared

TNRabbit wrote: »

Another TRUE bi-amping thread:

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103183&highlight=active

Excellent thread brother.

Tour2ma

TNRabbit wrote: »

Another TRUE bi-amping thread...

True... smoo... It's active vs passive. Nice write up though and excellent taste in Amps.

And yes, Carver ribbons do dislike humidity. Ted's were buzzing when I picked them up for him in Houston, but once they "dried out" at his place... no more buzz.

Hawkeye

I think a bi-wire for the most part is a waste of time. Unless you try different wires on the top and bottom. Running the same wire (copper from the same manufacturer) to the tops and bottoms gains you nothing. However, if one used say copper on the bottom and silver on the top, you may find some difference.

I've tried copper on the bottom and silver on the top and to me there was a difference. I also tried it the other way around and found another difference. After it was all said and done, I settled on a copper, single wired speaker wire with jumpers from the same line. To me, audio bliss!!

Gordon