Advice on vintage Polk 7.1 setup

audio_alan

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Check out the Sunfire Cinema Grand series. They can be had in the $800.00 range all day long. If you are lucky, VERY lucky, you may be able to score a signature series for that.

Thanks, I'll look into those too.

With so many choices out there, it's sometimes tough to know what's really good and what isn't. I appreciate you guys giving me your 2 cents...

Alan

helipilotdoug

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Check out the Sunfire Cinema Grand series. They can be had in the $800.00 range all day long. If you are lucky, VERY lucky, you may be able to score a signature series for that.

You would be VERY lucky to find the Signature series for that.:D I paid Double that for my Sig. Look on Audiogon, and you'll see several very nice looking Sunfire 200X5 amps right now from $735-$850. On my system, the Sunfire Signature series 400X5 is what is powering the mains, center and sides, with a Carver TFM-45 powering the rears. I highly recommend the Sunfire amps.

nooshinjohn

helipilotdoug wrote: »

You would be VERY lucky to find the Signature series for that.:D

I grabbed a Signature 400/7 and a Signature 600/2 for $1400.00 for the PAIR!:D:D:D

It can be done, but great patience and LUCK must come into play.

Schurkey

Curious. Do you really need a subwoofer (or two) paired with an SRS 2.3 or 1C? I run my 1Bs in a 7.0 system. I don't notice a lack of bass; and I'm guessing it'd take a REAL subwoofer to make a meaningful improvement...but I've been wrong before.

Phil Dawson

You might check out a place called Intrinsic Sound 1907 South Broadway Denver. They always have some cool new and used gear. They build their own amps and also build a line of ice power amps. They are super people but a bit different. Don't wait too long as they have their building for sale with an eye on retirement.
Good luck, Phil

tx_polkhead

Schurkey wrote: »

Curious. Do you really need a subwoofer (or two) paired with an SRS 2.3 or 1C? I run my 1Bs in a 7.0 system. I don't notice a lack of bass; and I'm guessing it'd take a REAL subwoofer to make a meaningful improvement...but I've been wrong before.

Yes you NEED a sub, even if your speakers dig deep. 7.1 means you have a dedicated channel of information, no sub means that data is being lost. You don't need to spend crazy money (by all means spend as much as you want) I got a smallish Infinity Interlude 100 (10" 250watt sub) the trick is good set-up, and tuning. My little sub in a big room really surprises me, but not untill after I took the time to dial it in (the Interlude has the RABOS option, an SPL meter with a CD of sweeps. I've only done the 'quick' 10 minute set-up not the full hour set-up but man what a difference!).

Phil Dawson

With some pre-pros or receivers like my B&K if you don't have a sub and other options are selected such as large for the front and rears all of the LFE information will be sent to all of the large speakers. You then get way too much LFE channel. This of course only applies for 5.1 +. For 2 channel listening you don't need a sub.
Good luck, Phil

audio_alan

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I grabbed a Signature 400/7 and a Signature 600/2 for $1400.00 for the PAIR!:D:D:D

It can be done, but great patience and LUCK must come into play.

Nice score, nooshinjohn! I know about Luck. I felt VERY lucky to get my 2.3's for $400.

Regarding having a sub with the 2.3's, I think it's necessary. Maybe I need to move them around a bit, but right now their output in the bass department is nowhere close to what I can get with my sub(s). I think I have them spaced about 1 foot off the rear wall right now. Or maybe something is wrong with them? Could this be because they aren't getting the power they crave?

Phil - thanks for the tip on Intrinsic Sound. I'll see if I can get over there this weekend.

Sounds like I have plenty of options. Unfortunately, that just means I have more research to do. I have a tendancy to research things "every which way from Sunday', much to my own torture...:rolleyes:

Alan

dacoupedeville

My 2.3tl`s LOVE the Odyssey Stratos. It made me dump my Adcom 5802 in a hurry to add mono`s. It is only 150 watts per channel, but very good sounding. I also like it better than My Aragon 8008x3. I have never heard the Sunfire stuff, but if you get a chance, audition Odyssey anything. Great bang for the buck.

audio_alan

Thanks for all the suggestions, guys. I ended up ordering a XPA-2 at their sale price. I have a friend that also wants to check out their amps, so I figured that one of us will keep it, or if neither of us like it, we can just return it and split the shipping...

I thought the 2.3's were 8 ohm, but I was looking at the manual last night and it says 6 ohms. So, I'll be pushing even more power to them than I thought. The XPA-2 should be able to push about 400 wpc at 6 ohms. Hopefully that will be a significant improvement over my 140 wpc (8 ohm), SC-27...

It's going to be a few weeks before I get the amp, but I'll return to share my observations after I have it hooked up and calibrated with the SC-27.

One more question - My 2.3's currently have feet in the corner, not spikes. Would spikes make a big different vs. the feet? (The 2.3's are sitting on carpet, on a concrete floor).

Alan

audio_alan

Wait a second, I just stumbled onto this Polk Audio hosted page, and it's saying the 2.3's are 8 ohm.

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/recent/srs23tl/

That link is for the tl's though. Could it be the 2.3tl's are 8 ohm, but the regular 2.3's are 6 ohm? What's the story here?

audio_alan

UPDATE - I received the Emotiva XPA-2 and put it in my 7.1 setup...

I still need to do some A/B tests with a few friends to determine if I/we really hear a quality difference between the Pioneer SC-27 and XPA-2 powering the 2.3's, but I already know one thing for sure, it definitely delivered a shot of power into my system!

Remember the U-571 scene that I mentioned? Before I had to turn it down to -6 to get the Pioneer to NOT shut off. :mad: Yesterday I played the same scene, cranked to -2, with no problems at all. I think I could have turned it up even louder, but that was already PLENTY loud... I actually think the scene sounded a little more dynamic and natural this time around also. The explosions sounded a little more real, compared to what seemed like a semi-distorted signal with all the speakers coming off the SC-27 (at the -6 level)...

I'm still looking for a good deal on some of the other amps that people mentioned in the thread (in case my friend wants to take the XPA-2 home with him...).

Now to start modding the 2.3s!

audio_alan

Second Update.....

I came home tonight and decided to focus more on JUST the Polk 2.3's - no surround sound, just 2-channel music running "Pure Direct" out of the receiver (which is now powered by the XPA-2). After listening to a few albums, I think I can say that the overall bass response is more pronounced and tigher. Maybe it's "buyers reassurance", but that's my perception tonight. At the very least, I know I have more power and know I'm powering the 2.3's closer to the middle of the range that they're rated for....either way, I'm happy..... for now. :cool:

But I'm sure it (being happy) won't last for long. Hi, my name is Alan, and I'm an audio/speaker/amp/decibel junkie.

bsoko2

audio_alan wrote: »

Second Update.....

I came home tonight and decided to focus more on JUST the Polk 2.3's - no surround sound, just 2-channel music running "Pure Direct" out of the receiver (which is now powered by the XPA-2). After listening to a few albums, I think I can say that the overall bass response is more pronounced and tigher. Maybe it's "buyers reassurance", but that's my perception tonight. At the very least, I know I have more power and know I'm powering the 2.3's closer to the middle of the range that they're rated for....either way, I'm happy..... for now. :cool:

But I'm sure it (being happy) won't last for long. Hi, my name is Alan, and I'm an audio/speaker/amp/decibel junkie.

Upgrade the crossovers and you will really notice the difference in music.

Bill

audio_alan

bsoko2 - I'm hooked, the crossovers are next! I'm starting to understand (as most of you have already discovered) that there are several changes that can make significant changes. I'm still listening to music tonight and I could swear that my subwoofers are still on. The additional power has really made the 2.3's come alive (like everyone said, thanks! What a great forum!!!)

Oh man, I've opened up a can of worms!

F1nut

A common misconception with SDA's, the more watts the better. The truth, the more peak to peak current (amps) the better. I see that they say your amp is high current, but they don't list the specs. I also see that they say it has a lot of headroom, again no specs. Makes one wonder.

Move your speakers back, try 5 or 6 inches from the back wall. Add brass spikes. Upgrade the crossovers with high quality film and foil type caps and Mills resistors. Replace the SL2000 tweeters with Polk's RD0194-1's. If Larry makes another run of his rings, buy them! Basically as of right now, you haven't heard anything close to what those speakers will do.

BTW, they are 6 ohm nominal.

audio_alan

F1nut,

Yeah, it's tough to tell what-is-what when you start reading all that marketing jargon. Everyone's stuff is "the best". :cool: I'm probably going to do some blind tests with my friends to really see if the XPA-2 is making a difference. At the very least I suppose it gives my whole system a little more headroom.

I already moved the speakers about 6 inches off the back wall a couple weeks ago. I noticed that made an instant improvement in the bass. Larry has some rings for me, so I plan on installing them soon, and will start to look into the cross-over and tweeter upgrades soon after. Even as-is, I'm really enjoying my new speakers (especially considering what I paid for them!).

Alan
P.S. Thanks for confirming they are 6 ohms. There is a lot of contradictory information on the internet...

F1nut

I'm probably going to do some blind tests with my friends to really see if the XPA-2 is making a difference.

Alan, I guarantee that the amp is making a difference when compared to your AVR, any amp would. It then becomes a matter of how good is the amp.

Driver_King

audio_alan wrote: »

F1nut,

Yeah, it's tough to tell what-is-what when you start reading all that marketing jargon. Everyone's stuff is "the best". :cool: I'm probably going to do some blind tests with my friends to really see if the XPA-2 is making a difference. At the very least I suppose it gives my whole system a little more headroom.

I already moved the speakers about 6 inches off the back wall a couple weeks ago. I noticed that made an instant improvement in the bass. Larry has some rings for me, so I plan on installing them soon, and will start to look into the cross-over and tweeter upgrades soon after. Even as-is, I'm really enjoying my new speakers (especially considering what I paid for them!).

Alan
P.S. Thanks for confirming they are 6 ohms. There is a lot of contradictory information on the internet...

If you're looking for a neutral, clean-sounding, high detail amplifier, look at the Behringer EP2500. Bench tested, it provides easily as much power, if not more, than the XPA-2 with a similar MSRP. Fortunately, people will sell the EP2500 amplifiers for anywhere around $150-$250 on eBay. The Behringer amplifier is a professional amplifier and is used in professional theaters, recording studios, and for heavy power applications, such as for DJ or subwoofer applications. The amplifier was benched, not rated at, 650 watts per channel, with .002% distortion at 4 ohms. That is certainly not the limit of the amplifier, rather, the point at which the distortion levels start to go up. The amplifier is rated at 900 watts per channel at 4 ohms, which I believe is at 1% distortion. Mighty impressive at any price point. If you are looking for a tainted sound (warm, tube-like, or slightly bright), this is not your amplifier. If you want clean, detailed, and a neutral sound (hence the incredibly low distortion levels) along with endless headroom, go with the Behringer. The XPA-2 is a very close competitor, but not for sheer power or price.

F1nut

I'll have to disagree with the pro amp recommendation unless all one cares about is maximum SPL levels.

hence the incredibly low distortion levels

Well, my home audio amp is rated at .0007% and doesn't sound like any pro amp.

What is the EP2500's peak to peak amp rating?

F1nut

I love this owners description of his EP2500.

If you have speakers that can cover up the harshness of the upper frequencies (a medium priced set does) and have a pre-amp that cleans up the low level hum (most do) then you can run your mains off of these things a[t] low level and they sound pretty good...something I find hard to get out of most PA amps.

He also gave it 5 stars. :eek::rolleyes:

tonyb

There's a reason why pro amps and Home amps are seperate entities.

Sound quality....period.

audio_alan

tonyb wrote: »

There's a reason why pro amps and Home amps are seperate entities.

Sound quality....period.

Not to mention pro amps are usually noisy! It seems like Home Theater amps cool via efficient design, large heat sinks, etc. Pro amp manufacturers just throw fans inside the case. They figure the band will be playing at 100+ decibles, so who cares if there is a little fan noise...

Driver_King

F1nut wrote: »

I'll have to disagree with the pro amp recommendation unless all one cares about is maximum SPL levels.



Well, my home audio amp is rated at .0007% and doesn't sound like any pro amp.

What is the EP2500's peak to peak amp rating?

I know how bad pro amps can sound. I deal with them all the time. I've had experience with very many pro amps. I also know how well they can sound, especially over consumer level amps. If you've never had any experience with the particular model, you can't judge what it could or couldn't sound like. Peak to peak? Do you mean S/N Ratio?

Driver_King

F1nut wrote: »

I love this owners description of his EP2500.



He also gave it 5 stars. :eek::rolleyes:

I don't have those issues at all. I have no hum at any listening level and in fact, the highs are actually easier to listen to than with my previous amplifiers.

tonyb wrote: »

There's a reason why pro amps and Home amps are seperate entities.

Sound quality....period.

This is a common misconception. There are cheap pro audio amps with easily fudged RMS figures and then there are high quality professional amplifiers with tried and true RMS figures, ultra low distortion, and superior sound quality. By the way, I've had experience with other, cheaper and lower quality Behringer amplifiers. I would never trust them in my home theater/stereo rig.

audio_alan wrote: »

Not to mention pro amps are usually noisy! It seems like Home Theater amps cool via efficient design, large heat sinks, etc. Pro amp manufacturers just throw fans inside the case. They figure the band will be playing at 100+ decibles, so who cares if there is a little fan noise...

There is a $10 PC fan you can purchase that replaces the stock, noisy fan. It is an affordable, easy upgrade. You can only hear the amplifier if you get right next to it. In fact, it is quieter than many computers today. If you have other noisy equipment in your room, like A/C, a projector, a PS3, a computer, or traffic outside and listen to music or watch movies at over 40dB, you would likely not notice the noise.