Three types of record cleaning machines-which is best?

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Comments

  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited July 2010
    TECHNOKID wrote: »
    I hope you know I am kidding, right? I read some of your post on the subject and I can relate. Right now I am somewhat carefull with the money as I just got back to work last week, it was a long 5 months to get back on my feet and of course with tight money. Didn't spend much on gear this year as I spent more than ever on health gear. However, you are right, I'm dirt cheap and proud of it :D Get the most out of every penny I spend :cool:

    By the way, hopefully my Spin Clean should be getting here in the next few weeks (paypal has confirmed payment but nothing (email) yet from Needle Doctor). I also spotted a crappy turn table in my workshop which could be great for a DIY project. Thank to all the thread on the subject as this thing would have gone to recycling since I've been doing some clearing of old crappy electronics lately. I have many tape decks I'm not sure what to do with them, any good idea how to recycle-reuse them?

    First off which part of "Hehehe" didn't you get as me taking your comment as tongue-in-cheek?:p

    Second; I cannot emphasize strongly enough to make a DIY vacuuming system to augment your new toy. There's plenty of info on how to make one here. As I've stated before I like Jeff's (bikerboy) DIY vacuuming system.
  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited July 2010
    Yes, I remeber seeing this thread, in due time I'll check it out and provide for vacuming.
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
  • jimbo1421
    jimbo1421 Posts: 772
    edited July 2010
    The Spin Clean arrived Thursday and I also went out and bought the rest of the supplies needed: distilled water from Walgreens and a variety of microfiber cloths to try. These (http://www.walgreens.com/store/catalog/Cleaning-Accessories/Micro-Fiber-Cleaning-Cloths-6-Pack/ID=prod6028582-product) worked well for quick drying. I used these for a final polish: http://www.zwipes.com/products.php?view=47&cat=home. I thought a ShamWow might work well as a work pad; not so. It sheds orange fibers. I am going to look for a large microfiber towel for a work pad plus a some nonskid rubber shelf liner to help hold the record still while wiping. There is a video here: http://www.spincleanrecordwasher.com/video-demo.html so I won't describe how to use the device. Before spin cleaning I give the record a wipe with a Discwasher to get the loose dirt and dust, then into the tub.

    I would listen to a few selections from an LP, then wash, dry, and air dry for 15 minutes. One bath with three revolutions each way did not seem to be enough. Pops and crackles were reduced but there were still more than I expected. So if I wasn't satisfied with a record I would do 1-2 more wash/dry cycles with 7-8 revolutions each way with improvement each time. Still, some pops and crackles always remain. Without a microscope it's not possible to tell whether they are due to small scratches (not fixable) or embedded particles. Perhaps a pre-wash steaming would help loosen up those embedded particles. First, though, I will try just soaking the record with a 1/3 turn every 10-15 minutes.

    I have cleaned about 20 records in two sessions now, and while the remaining pops are a bit disappointing, the real benefit is the music comes alive to a degree I had not heard before, as if I pulled a blanket off the sound. I must be getting rid of a coating of grime that has built up over 30-60 years. The most dramatic example is a 3 record set of Bach cello suites recorded by Pablo Casals between 1936 and 1939. My copy is a reissue, probably from the 70s. What a disappointment! I thought this guy was supposed to be a great cellist. The recording sounded distant, like an old 78 being played in the next room. No real dynamics to it. Still I played them quite a few times, using a Discwasher each time; it actually looked like I was visibly removing a coating from the surface and chiseling it out of the grooves with the stylus. I would actually have to clean crud buildup off the stylus after each side. When I finally got them through a few Spin Clean cycles, they were almost pristine and all the rich sonority of the cello comes through, even the raspy bow sound of the bass chords. It sounds like a modern recording. All of the records that I have cleaned so far have shown this great improvement in musical dynamics. I am finally getting what vinyl is all about.

    Jim
    5.1 System:
    TCL R613 55" 4K
    Front: SRS-3.1TL
    Center: CS400i
    Surround: Monitor 10B
    PSW10 subwoofer
    Onkyo PR-SC886P Pre/Pro
    NAD T955 5 channel power amplifier
    Technics SL-1710 MK2 turntable
    Audio-Technica AT14Sa cartridge
    Parasound P3 pre-amp
    Oppo BDP-103 Blu-Ray
    2014 MacBook Pro 2.8 GHz

    2.0 Office System:
    Monitor 10A (Peerless)
    Outlaw 1050 receiver
    Parasound HCA-1000A power amp
    MacPro
  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited July 2010
    Nice report Jim, I will follow the development and progress you make. I am a firm believer that you don't need the top of the line equipment to properly clean vinyls (US says records while CDNs prefer vinyls ;) ) but rather need to think a little and develop what you have in order to improve and maximize the end results. Hopefully, I should be getting mine soon and will be able to experiment from my side. I wish I ordered 2 of them so I could do some comparision while experimenting.

    Cheers!
    TK
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited July 2010
    Nice write up Jim and I'm glad you are satisfied with the results.
  • jimbo1421
    jimbo1421 Posts: 772
    edited July 2010
    Thank you both, TK & HI. I think my next move will be to try a steamer to get those stubborn specks out.

    Jim
    5.1 System:
    TCL R613 55" 4K
    Front: SRS-3.1TL
    Center: CS400i
    Surround: Monitor 10B
    PSW10 subwoofer
    Onkyo PR-SC886P Pre/Pro
    NAD T955 5 channel power amplifier
    Technics SL-1710 MK2 turntable
    Audio-Technica AT14Sa cartridge
    Parasound P3 pre-amp
    Oppo BDP-103 Blu-Ray
    2014 MacBook Pro 2.8 GHz

    2.0 Office System:
    Monitor 10A (Peerless)
    Outlaw 1050 receiver
    Parasound HCA-1000A power amp
    MacPro
  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited July 2010
    jimbo1421 wrote: »
    Thank you both, TK & HI. I think my next move will be to try a steamer to get those stubborn specks out.

    Jim

    . . . and A DIY VACUUM SYSTEM!;):D
  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited July 2010
    jimbo1421 wrote: »
    Thank you both, TK & HI. I think my next move will be to try a steamer to get those stubborn specks out.

    Jim
    . . . and A DIY VACUUM SYSTEM!;):D
    Keiko wrote: »
    vpi ;)

    Well it's already been established that Jim isn't going to spend that kind of cash on a VPI (although I highly recommend saving up for one) so I recommended he do a DIY Vacuuming system.

    BTW Jim, I watched the video you posted. I still don't see how the gunk and sediment that is in that bath does not cross contaminate onto the other records cleaned in the bath. I saw his end results in the video and there is an awful lot of crud in the bath solution as well as sediment left in the bottom of the unit. Cleaning 50 records!?! That's a lot of gunk, grime and sediment.

    One other thought; you should clean a record everytime you are going to listen to it. I can't believe that you would use the spinner to do this. Wouldn't you be wasting the cleaning fluid and distilled water that this method demands to clean one record? Do you know if you can use it once and save the fluid for further usage?
  • jimbo1421
    jimbo1421 Posts: 772
    edited July 2010
    Well it's already been established that Jim isn't going to spend that kind of cash on a VPI (although I highly recommend saving up for one) so I recommended he do a DIY Vacuuming system.

    BTW Jim, I watched the video you posted. I still don't see how the gunk and sediment that is in that bath does not cross contaminate onto the other records cleaned in the bath. I saw his end results in the video and there is an awful lot of crud in the bath solution as well as sediment left in the bottom of the unit. Cleaning 50 records!?! That's a lot of gunk, grime and sediment.

    One other thought; you should clean a record everytime you are going to listen to it. I can't believe that you would use the spinner to do this. Wouldn't you be wasting the cleaning fluid and distilled water that this method demands to clean one record? Do you know if you can use it once and save the fluid for further usage?

    That's a lot of gunk, grime and sediment that is in the tub, not on the records. Still, I have done only two cleaning sessions, no more than 12 records per bath. The fluid at the end is only slightly cloudy, probably from the washer concentrate. I can't see doing more than 20 at a time. I think massive dilution is the key to this process; a few micrograms of dirt is dispersed into three cups of cleaning fluid. The fluid that clings to the record when it is removed from the bath contains only a tiny fraction of the original dirt and most of that is sopped up when hand drying.

    Although it is feasible to store the cleaning fluid in the tub (which comes with a cover) to reuse each time I play a record, there is no way that I will go that far. I will not forget that I am not listening to a vinyl record (or CD or tape), I am listening to a musical performance that has been frozen in time onto these media. My purpose is to eliminate the barriers to my enjoyment of that performance. That would include too much record cleaning. And I really wouldn't want to listen to a vacuum cleaner before each Mozart quartet.

    There is really too much other low hanging fruit to be picked when it comes to improving my audio experience. (Low cost room treatments, anyone?)

    Regards,

    Jim
    5.1 System:
    TCL R613 55" 4K
    Front: SRS-3.1TL
    Center: CS400i
    Surround: Monitor 10B
    PSW10 subwoofer
    Onkyo PR-SC886P Pre/Pro
    NAD T955 5 channel power amplifier
    Technics SL-1710 MK2 turntable
    Audio-Technica AT14Sa cartridge
    Parasound P3 pre-amp
    Oppo BDP-103 Blu-Ray
    2014 MacBook Pro 2.8 GHz

    2.0 Office System:
    Monitor 10A (Peerless)
    Outlaw 1050 receiver
    Parasound HCA-1000A power amp
    MacPro
  • jimbo1421
    jimbo1421 Posts: 772
    edited July 2010
    Keiko wrote: »
    vpi ;)

    Can you listen to music while vacuuming records on your VPI?

    Jim
    5.1 System:
    TCL R613 55" 4K
    Front: SRS-3.1TL
    Center: CS400i
    Surround: Monitor 10B
    PSW10 subwoofer
    Onkyo PR-SC886P Pre/Pro
    NAD T955 5 channel power amplifier
    Technics SL-1710 MK2 turntable
    Audio-Technica AT14Sa cartridge
    Parasound P3 pre-amp
    Oppo BDP-103 Blu-Ray
    2014 MacBook Pro 2.8 GHz

    2.0 Office System:
    Monitor 10A (Peerless)
    Outlaw 1050 receiver
    Parasound HCA-1000A power amp
    MacPro
  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited July 2010
    There is really too much other low hanging fruit to be picked when it comes to improving my audio experience. (Low cost room treatments, anyone?)
    Fully agreed!
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited July 2010
    jimbo1421 wrote: »
    That's a lot of gunk, grime and sediment that is in the tub, not on the records. Still, I have done only two cleaning sessions, no more than 12 records per bath. The fluid at the end is only slightly cloudy, probably from the washer concentrate. I can't see doing more than 20 at a time. I think massive dilution is the key to this process; a few micrograms of dirt is dispersed into three cups of cleaning fluid. The fluid that clings to the record when it is removed from the bath contains only a tiny fraction of the original dirt and most of that is sopped up when hand drying.

    Although it is feasible to store the cleaning fluid in the tub (which comes with a cover) to reuse each time I play a record, there is no way that I will go that far. I will not forget that I am not listening to a vinyl record (or CD or tape), I am listening to a musical performance that has been frozen in time onto these media. My purpose is to eliminate the barriers to my enjoyment of that performance. That would include too much record cleaning. And I really wouldn't want to listen to a vacuum cleaner before each Mozart quartet.

    There is really too much other low hanging fruit to be picked when it comes to improving my audio experience. (Low cost room treatments, anyone?)

    Regards,

    Jim

    I hear ya Jim. I was just making suggestions based on my experience listening to music on vinyl. If you're happy with what you've got going that's all that matters and that makes me happy too.:)
  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited July 2010
    Keiko wrote: »
    Cleaning is done prior to listening. I'll do 3-4 records at a time, then kick back and listen to an absolutely pristine album. No surface noise and a black background.
    This is part of the reason I am somewhat reluctant to go back to vinyls, could be quite tedious and could interfere with the enjoyment. Personnally I would clean quite a batch because 2 or 3 would simply be a teaser (mind you I prefer single to albums so lots of cleaning before listening to be worthwhile). If I ever decide to go with the vacuming process I would do a set-up external to the room so not to hear the vacuming. It just seem so contradictory, vacuming cacophonie and music auditionning :(
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited July 2010
    I do my 4 step vinyl prep usually in batches of 12 for used and brand new LPs. Then when I'm ready to listen, I take it out of the jacket, give it a spin on both side with VPI record cleaning solution then sit back and listen.

    Jimbo, there's no way to listen to music with the vacuum running but how long do you have to wait for your records to completely dry before listening to them? It's a trade off I think but I know I'm listening to my cleaned records a lot quicker than you are!:p:D
  • jimbo1421
    jimbo1421 Posts: 772
    edited July 2010
    I listen to other music while cleaning.

    The steamer should arrive today. I got the Bissell Steam Shot.

    Jim
    5.1 System:
    TCL R613 55" 4K
    Front: SRS-3.1TL
    Center: CS400i
    Surround: Monitor 10B
    PSW10 subwoofer
    Onkyo PR-SC886P Pre/Pro
    NAD T955 5 channel power amplifier
    Technics SL-1710 MK2 turntable
    Audio-Technica AT14Sa cartridge
    Parasound P3 pre-amp
    Oppo BDP-103 Blu-Ray
    2014 MacBook Pro 2.8 GHz

    2.0 Office System:
    Monitor 10A (Peerless)
    Outlaw 1050 receiver
    Parasound HCA-1000A power amp
    MacPro
  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited July 2010
    Keiko wrote: »
    So let me get this straight....Listen to a single song from an entire LP in one room; your machine is left vacuuming in another; so not to hear it. And when your done listening to your one song, you run back into the other room, put another record on to vacuum, bring the one you left on the vac (cuz you didn't want to here the vacuuming) out to spin, play one song-and repeat the entire process.....That's brilliant! :D
    Nope, I'm talking about having the vacume head unit installed in a remote room (some similar to a central system but using a wet and dry shop vac for example) and has pointed out, cleaning a batch (15 to 20 singles) before any listening because when I sit back for listening I am ONLY listening (relax) not working on cleaning. Actually, HI's post kind of reflexes how I feel I should do it for max enjoyment.

    I do my 4 step vinyl prep usually in batches of 12 for used and brand new LPs. Then when I'm ready to listen, I take it out of the jacket, give it a spin on both side with VPI record cleaning solution then sit back and listen.
    I know I'm listening to my cleaned records a lot quicker than you are!
    HI, how can you be sure of such? His process is much simpler therefore should be quicker, right?

    Cheers!
    TK
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited July 2010
    jimbo1421 wrote: »
    I listen to other music while cleaning.

    The steamer should arrive today. I got the Bissell Steam Shot.

    Jim
    This is not exactly what I would call optimum listening enjoyment. I like listening to music while I work but my attention/focus is not then fully devoted to the music listening. When it comes to serious listening, I drop everything I do, sit back and solely focus on the music.
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited July 2010
    TECHNOKID wrote: »
    HI, how can you be sure of such? His process is much simpler therefore should be quicker, right?

    Cheers!
    TK

    It's not simpler by any means. When I want to listen to a record, it takes me one minute to clean it on the 16.5, zap it with the anit-static gun and mount it on the turntable. With the Spin Cleaner you have to wait for the records to become completely dry and using the cloth wipes ain't going to dry them thoroughly and in most cases, the user of the Spin Cleaner isn't going to clean the record again before playing it which IMHO is not good as a prepped record out of a clean sleeve still needs to be cleaned again before playing because no matter how meticulous you are with the prep and the insertion into a clean sleeve it still accumulates dust and dirt from the air and the inner sleeve. With the spin clean you have to fill the bath again to clean just one record before playing, then wait for it to dry and then store the bath solution.

    So how is that simpler? How is it faster?

    Jimbo, I'm in no way calling your baby ugly I'm just responding to TK.
  • starkiller
    starkiller Posts: 2,723
    edited September 2010
    I'm leaning towards one of the spin-cleans also....all of my albums, except a few, are all used ones, and alot of them in pretty bad shape.Back in 1992 i got rid of my collection of 4,500 albums and went fully cd. Since then, I have found that a huge many of them never made the transition to cd so i have been buying casettes i have found, burning those onto the harddrive, and then from there to a cd. Bleah. So in the last 5-6 months i have gotten back into the vinyl thing, have around 500-600 albums but they all need to be cleaned, a bunch more then others. Seems alot of people didnt take care of their albums like I did :(

    Anyway, i figure i would do a bunch at a time, change water, then repeat. 500 albums are going to take a while. but, once they are done, all i have to do the next time i play an album is use my audioquest brush and voila'!
    Computer room Hegeman 1 SpeakersM&K VX-80 subKenwood DP-7010Cambridge Audio CXC Transport Rega DACPrimaLuna Prologue Four AmpAric Audio Tube PreampGarage Jennings Research SquareCustom tube preampCrown XLS-1000Denon DCD-1500II Modded MSB Link DAC
  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited September 2010
    It's not simpler by any means. When I want to listen to a record, it takes me one minute to clean it on the 16.5, zap it with the anit-static gun and mount it on the turntable. With the Spin Cleaner you have to wait for the records to become completely dry and using the cloth wipes ain't going to dry them thoroughly and in most cases, the user of the Spin Cleaner isn't going to clean the record again before playing it which IMHO is not good as a prepped record out of a clean sleeve still needs to be cleaned again before playing because no matter how meticulous you are with the prep and the insertion into a clean sleeve it still accumulates dust and dirt from the air and the inner sleeve. With the spin clean you have to fill the bath again to clean just one record before playing, then wait for it to dry and then store the bath solution.
    starkiller wrote: »
    I'm leaning towards one of the spin-cleans also....all of my albums, except a few, are all used ones, and alot of them in pretty bad shape.Back in 1992 i got rid of my collection of 4,500 albums and went fully cd. Since then, I have found that a huge many of them never made the transition to cd so i have been buying casettes i have found, burning those onto the harddrive, and then from there to a cd. Bleah. So in the last 5-6 months i have gotten back into the vinyl thing, have around 500-600 albums but they all need to be cleaned, a bunch more then others. Seems alot of people didnt take care of their albums like I did :(

    Anyway, i figure i would do a bunch at a time, change water, then repeat. 500 albums are going to take a while. but, once they are done, all i have to do the next time i play an album is use my audioquest brush and voila'!

    Taking a record out of a record sleeve, placing it on your TT using a dry AQ brush is not a very good way to keep your records clean and pristine and it can and will cause dirt and dust taken from the record sleeve. When the stylus run through those grooves with that gunk on it, it's just going weld it into the groove causing snap, crackle, and pop. IMHO they should be cleaned with a solution then vacuumed off. See above!:)
  • starkiller
    starkiller Posts: 2,723
    edited September 2010
    You are probably right but for us folks who can't afford a 16.5 and still must clean and listen to records we have to make do. I used a Discwasher for many many years back in the 70's and 80's and they still looked and sounded like new when i sold them all. Plus, back then a good portion of those were brand new, nowadays, the list of just released discs i want is very very small, I am too busy trying to round up ones from20/30/40 years ago! And unless i pay a pretty penny they are not in good shape.
    Computer room Hegeman 1 SpeakersM&K VX-80 subKenwood DP-7010Cambridge Audio CXC Transport Rega DACPrimaLuna Prologue Four AmpAric Audio Tube PreampGarage Jennings Research SquareCustom tube preampCrown XLS-1000Denon DCD-1500II Modded MSB Link DAC
  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited September 2010
    Have any of you guys tried Wood Glue to clean your Vinyl?

    I was looking up something on Youtube and saw plenty of examples.

    It seems like it would work.
  • audiobilly
    audiobilly Posts: 351
    edited September 2010
    Looks to be very labor intensive. If you had a few that were in really bad shape, this looks to be the way to go to get them to a "normal" state. I would not want to do this on every album just before listening. IMHO.
    Joe08867 wrote: »
    Have any of you guys tried Wood Glue to clean your Vinyl?

    I was looking up something on Youtube and saw plenty of examples.

    It seems like it would work.
  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited September 2010
    audiobilly wrote: »
    Looks to be very labor intensive. If you had a few that were in really bad shape, this looks to be the way to go to get them to a "normal" state. I would not want to do this on every album just before listening. IMHO.

    I agree, I just wondered if anyone had tried it. I have a few early 60's records that need more than liquid and vacuum help. No scratches just real dirty. They were probably left on the TT for days at a time.