Notice Of Sensory Science Journal Publication

headrott

hearingimpared wrote: »

See, I think that is the point of people coming up with using ABX testing for testing audio gear. It fast, convenient and because of that unrealiable. That is why I said you have to repeat your listening through the whole piece of music while taking notes focusing on each instrument and vocal(s). There's no getting around the time and effort factor if you really want to get an accurate assessement of what it is you are testing being gear or music.

Can this be done at a brick & mortar store? It depends on the store but there is nothing like taking a particular piece of gear or music and placing in your own rig to compare it. Can you say "30 day money back gurantee?" That IMHO is solid testing especially when the differences can be very subtle, if at all, good or bad.

Yes Joe, you are correct. A lot of people don't have the patience or desire to actually put effort into listening to an entire album straight through. Even a single song is difficult for some people to sit and listen to without doing something else distracting them. Passive listening is not really listening at all. Active listening (that is, sitting in one spot with your eyes closed and concentrating without thinking about distractions) is true listening and the only true way to determine differences in audio (formats, wires, audio equipment). For those people who have never sat and truely listened without ditractions, have no true basis of comparing these differences.

It does make it more difficult to do this in a brick and mortar store but not impossible. There will absolutely be difference in sound though because you are not listening to the audio on YOUR equipment in your room. That definately makes a difference.

Greg

dudeinaroom

Fist off, this is the first time I have seen this and my response is: AWESOME MAN!!!!

madmax wrote: »

Can we just insert a diode and give up on this alternating current topic...

Where is the like button? lmbo

hearingimpared wrote: »

Larry, I have and still do. I have two copy books, one for gear and one for music that I keep just for the analytical purposes. I have to admit it, now that things have become what they have, I don't take up this practice as much. I just listen. However when the time comes to be able to buy gear and music, out will come the copy books.

The thing is, it is not a one shot listen take notes and listen again. It takes a lot more time and effort. Focusing on each instrument and vocal in each test and writing the observations down takes a lot of repetiton if one cares to get an accurate assessment of the changes, or lack thereof.

If you don't take the time/have the time it is not worth it. I have not had enough good gear yet, but out of the two amps I have experience with I can pretty much tell you what I think is their strong and weak points in comparison to one another. I may take written notes some day.

I had a ton of listening on the Adcom. And I give it kudos on bass power, but as far as control/tonality/and the ability to present decay those are marks to the Parasound. The more I listen to it(parasound) the more I realize that it has the ability to surprise me with how much bass impact it is capable of, something that I had originally wrote off.

I have seen the ramblings on the wall for quite some time. Some seemed coherent but much was still obscured. While I peer into the illuminated window of the connected world, I see more ramblings, and with each new one the fog is getting thinner. I feel no real trouble as, there is no ill will that was not self served. I know I am no match of wits for thee whom I share but three letter arranged in a sequence the is familiar to him. One question though, do I need to go back and peer through the control highlighted window to see what I have missed?

later,
Ted
-dudeinaroom
I have slow internet so it sucks to go back and look if I forgot to the first time.

hearingimpared

This has been brought to my attention and I find very interesting in more than one way;

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66678

First that our "esteemed" jinjuku is a moderator at Audioholics! Second that he posted DK's (this) thread there. I read the replies to his OP in the thread and they are mildly bashing a paper which they've not read and a method which they've not tried. Can you say, "closed minded?"

I find it very interesting that jinjuku is a moderator there. I wonder how long one would last without being banned at Audioholics behaving the way jinjuku behaves here? Interesting to say the lest, no?

heiney9

Wow Joe you were banned after one thought provoking post. Audioholics is a HORRIBLE BB with regards to audio, just absolutely HORRIBLE. It's their way or the highway, remind you of one of history's egomaniacal leaders who wanted to create a superior race.

Wow, just Wow.

hearingimpared

heiney9 wrote: »

Wow Joe you were banned after one thought provoking post. Audioholics is a HORRIBLE BB with regards to audio, just absolutely HORRIBLE. It's their way or the highway, remind you of one of history's egomaniacal leaders who wanted to create a superior race.

Wow, just Wow.

WOW!!! How about that!

Did you find what I posted there, in any way, shape or form, confrontational, inflammatory, rude, insulting, off-color, etc!?! No! I think it was more personal. Great modding they have over there.:rolleyes:

Geez, no wonder juju comes here and causes all the crap he does, and is always, confrontational, inflammatory, rude, insulting, off-color, etc! As I said him being a mod there explains a lot.

What a bunch of elitist, snobby, oversensitive, closed minded creeps they are over there!

I guess it was too thought provoking for them!:rolleyes:

I'm completely baffled as to why they would ban me! Like I said above, it's personal!

jinjuku

hearingimpared wrote: »

This has been brought to my attention and I find very interesting in more than one way;

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66678

First that our "esteemed" jinjuku is a moderator at Audioholics! Second that he posted DK's (this) thread there. I read the replies to his OP in the thread and they are mildly bashing a paper which they've not read and a method which they've not tried. Can you say, "closed minded?"

I find it very interesting that jinjuku is a moderator there. I wonder how long one would last without being banned at Audioholics behaving the way jinjuku behaves here? Interesting to say the lest, no?

So far I have been taking the high road on this HP (hence my PM to you).
First I have never attempted to obfuscate that I mod at AH (the HTPC forum).

Second anyone can see the thread I started and my post is treating DK and his Abstract with 100% respect. There is always room for another view point.

I agree that all people need to wait for the paper to be released.

heiney9

Last word from me on this subject in this thread.

It's all about your past transgressions jinjuku. You think you can take one post and make it civil and all is forgiven and forgotten. Walk the Walk..........not Talk the Talk.

This is getting off topic please start another thread if you want to discuss this latest derail.

H9

LessisNevermore

heiney9 wrote: »

Wow Joe you were banned after one thought provoking post.

Nice.:mad: There was zero call for banning over that post.

hearingimpared

Jinjuku I have you on ignore, but was interested when I saw you posted after this nonsense and peeked, therefore I didn't get a PM from you.

In any case, taking the high road!?! . . . from what? I didn't bash you posting that on AH as a matter of fact it was discussed offline that perhaps you are softening your view on ABX testing and were commended. Ha! Leapard spots and all that! I did however state my observations here that I ascertained from what I read over there in the replys to your OP.


I made a very civil and friendly and respectful and thought provoking first post on AH and you with your personal, hypocritical mind set decided to ban me there simply because of you personal feelings for me here. You're a really great mod! :rolleyes: Hypocrite that you are act like a complete gentleman on AH but here you act like a spiteful child.

I would love to post over on AH all your nonsensical, trolling, troublemaking, disrespectful, confrontational, off color, baiting, attacking, etc etc (my fingers are getting tired) but I'm not a person of poor character like someone I know.

You have been exposed again as the child that you are! If you want me to see your PM post it publically here because you are permanently on my ignore list as I don't care to be bothered with you chidish BS behavior, however Mr High Road I won't see it there either.

jinjuku

hearingimpared wrote: »

Jinjuku I have you on ignore, but was interested when I saw you posted after this nonsense and peeked, therefore I didn't get a PM from you.

In any case, taking the high road!?! . . . from what? I didn't bash you posting that on AH as a matter of fact it was discussed offline that perhaps you are softening your view on ABX testing and were commended. Ha! Leapard spots and all that! I did however state my observations here that I ascertained from what I read over there in the replys to your OP.


I made a very civil and friendly and respectful and thought provoking first post on AH and you with your personal, hypocritical mind set decided to ban me there simply because of you personal feelings for me here. You're a really great mod! :rolleyes: Hypocrite that you are act like a complete gentleman on AH but here you act like a spiteful child.

I would love to post over on AH all your nonsensical, trolling, troublemaking, disrespectful, confrontational, off color, baiting, attacking, etc etc (my fingers are getting tired) but I'm not a person of poor character like someone I know.

You have been exposed again as the child that you are! If you want me to see your PM post it publically here because you are permanently on my ignore list as I don't care to be bothered with you chidish BS behavior, however Mr High Road I won't see it there either.

I didn't ban you:rolleyes: All that supposition, accusation, name calling and you don't even have any pertinent facts straight. Sigh.

WilliamM2

I made a very civil and friendly and respectful and thought provoking first post on AH and you with your personal, hypocritical mind set decided to ban me there simply because of you personal feelings for me here.

It seems clear that Matt34 banned you, and also closed the thread because you linked to this one. Probably trying to avoid any type of forum war. Your post seemed civil to me.

heiney9

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Probably trying to avoid any type of forum war.

There wouldn't be one because anyone that is a frequent contributor here doesn't frequent the horrible AA forum. If they are dual forum posters generally they steer clear of "forum" wars...........if they have any sense, that is.

I don't know why Joe felt the need to post what he did, other than out of loyalty to DK and his work. Frankly, I wouldn't give those buffons over at AA that type of a dignified response.

I wouldn;t expect the very closed minded, "we know everything" types that are heavy posters over at AA to even be bothered with DK's forthcoming analysis. I realize it was jinjuku that started the post, but I always was aware of his underlying motives towards the PF from day one.

Anyways lets' move forward and stay on topic, if we can .

H9

hearingimpared

WilliamM2 wrote: »

It seems clear that Matt34 banned you, and also closed the thread because you linked to this one. Probably trying to avoid any type of forum war. Your post seemed civil to me.

Jinjuku linked to here. I tried to link to here because I was simply responding to one of the folks there who was questioning DK's ABX concerns. I couldn't post a link so I told them how to find the thread. I thought I was being helpful.

I wasn't starting a forum war or even trying. Jinjuku has been doing that here since he came aboard, what two years ago?

What I did post here was my impressions of the replys and how I thought the guys were closed minded. . .well it's all still up there read it above.

Matt34 & Jinjuku have been thorn's in the sides of the Club so I can see how they thought I was trying to start a forum war as that is their MO and I guess they feel everyone thinks like they do.

Let's please drop this as this thread has been mucked up enough!

heiney9

^^^ I agree, let's move on as Matt34 has already logged in today, probably to see what kind of crap he can stir up by banning someone for a totally rational post.

Sorry DK

H9

hearingimpared

I apologize too Ray . . . the old saying, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions!" Proof positive right here.

bikezappa

hearingimpared wrote: »

See, I think that is the point of people coming up with using ABX testing for testing audio gear. It fast, convenient and because of that unrealiable. That is why I said you have to repeat your listening through the whole piece of music while taking notes focusing on each instrument and vocal(s). There's no getting around the time and effort factor if you really want to get an accurate assessement of what it is you are testing being gear or music.

ABX testing can be done in many ways. The Audio Critic recommended method, to test two amplifiers for example, is to set up the ABX switcher in your home with all your other equipment and balance the outputs to a fraction of a DB. That step takes time and skill. The other rules are that you can use any music you want, play music at any volume, and switch back and forth between A or B to get used to the components being compared for AS LONG AS YOU WANT. Then you get to do the ABX test with someone else doing the switching hidden from you the listener. This seems like a fair ABX Test to determine if one can hear a difference in components and pick the one they like the best.

hearingimpared

bikezappa wrote: »

ABX testing can be done in many ways. The Audio Critic recommended method, to test two amplifiers for example, is to set up the ABX switcher in your home with all your other equipment and balance the outputs to a fraction of a DB. That step takes time and skill. The other rules are that you can use any music you want, play music at any volume, and switch back and forth between A or B to get used to the components being compared for AS LONG AS YOU WANT. Then you get to do the ABX test with someone else doing the switching hidden from you the listener. This seems like a fair ABX Test to determine if one can hear a difference in components and pick the one they like the best.

Now that right there make all the sense in world to me Peter. Especially where you say "pick the one they like the best." The ABX test that I think is way off is the one that was posted in this thread;

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html

There is no "as long as you want to listen" and they want you to pick out which cable is which, not which one sounds better to you and there's lots more with that test that I see makes it faulty. Ray has already discussed these at great length.

So I think we are on the same page but just going about it differently for the most part.

bikezappa

hearingimpared wrote: »

So I think we are on the same page but just going about it differently for the most part.

The part of the ABX test that I like the best is that you get to switch between component A and B for as long as you want and you know what component A and B is!

The proof in the pudden is if some one else plays with the switch and you can hear the differnce by picking the right component.

WilliamM2

hearingimpared wrote: »

Now that right there make all the sense in world to me Peter. Especially where you say "pick the one they like the best." The ABX test that I think is way off is the one that was posted in this thread;

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html

There is no "as long as you want to listen" and they want you to pick out which cable is which, not which one sounds better to you and there's lots more with that test that I see makes it faulty. Ray has already discussed these at great length.

So I think we are on the same page but just going about it differently for the most part.

You can't use a single poorly done test to disprove ABX testing. I asked on the first page of this thread, why the listening positions were different for the ABX and descrcriptive listening method. Of course I didn't get an answer. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

There have been quite a few that have been done in people's own homes, on their own equipment, one listener at a time. Here's an example:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=941184&highlight=cable+test

hearingimpared

WilliamM2 wrote: »

You can't use a single poorly done test to disprove ABX testing. I asked on the first page of this thread, why the listening positions were different for the ABX and descrcriptive listening method. Of course I didn't get an answer. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

There have been quite a few that have been done in people's own homes, on their own equipment, one listener at a time. Here's an example:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=941184&highlight=cable+test

I've read that test several times in the past. Funny thing is the more I read it the more cofused I get especially when reading the replies. I still don't understand why if the test was setup for 20 tries did they stop at only 8? Of course that is only one question but as stated already I find it very confusing.

In any case I can't wait to try Ray's method when the paper is published.

[Deleted User]

Hello,
I believe this thread has reached a point where all of everyone's points have been made and it doesn't look this anything useful is going to come from it continuing. Everyone is proud of DK and the efforts he has made to advance the art of sound reproduction. He is truly a gentleman and a scholar!
Cheers, Ken