New DAC?

Cpyder
Cpyder Posts: 514
edited July 2010 in 2 Channel Audio
Would it be worth my money if I added a decently priced DAC to my setup. Currently I'm using my Marantz SR5003 for the D/A conversion and amplification to drive my LSi9s. If I purchased a separate DAC in the price range of $500, would I see meaningful improvements? I'm looking at the Cambridge Audio DacMagic right now, although I'm open to suggestions. Could I still use the receiver in "Pure Direct" mode to only by used an as amplifier, basically? Does the pure direct mode bypass all of the receivers internals?

Thanks
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  • bopicasso
    bopicasso Posts: 878
    edited June 2010
    What are you using as a source? Also consider the Musical Fidelity V-dac which is only 300.
    Living Room setup: Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH, Krell KAV 300i, PS Audio DL III DAC, Tyler Acoustics Taylo 7u, Dynaudio Audience 120C+, SVS 25/31PCI, B-P-T Clean Power Center, Ps3, Panny 50" S1 Plasma, Tekline speaker cables, Audio Art interconnects, and Pangea power cables.
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  • Cpyder
    Cpyder Posts: 514
    edited June 2010
    I'm using my computer's optical out.
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  • Cpyder
    Cpyder Posts: 514
    edited June 2010
    I guess my main question I'm asking is: Will a DAC from this price range clearly beat out the DAC in the Marantz, and be worth the price considering the performance gains?
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited June 2010
    Cpyder wrote: »
    I guess my main question I'm asking is: Will a DAC from this price range clearly beat out the DAC in the Marantz, and be worth the price considering the performance gains?

    Not necessarily.

    The Cambridge DAC Magic does use dual Wolfson DACs - probably similar to my Cambridge CDP 640c v2.

    And I like really the sound - great value too as I got it on sale from Audio Advisor for $349 - the regular price was over $600.

    I did my own DAC shoot out once: AVR vs 640cV2 vs standard Oppo BD83 mated to an 'expensive' Bel Canto DAC2 (new this DAC cost over $1200, but I got it for half that used on audiogon).

    I used the same AQ interconnects from the CDP and the DAC to my MF A5 integrated amp to equalize the other factors in the setup.

    I used two copies of the same CD to play and used the Oppo remote to level match the Oppo and the Cambridge.

    The Cambridge was the better sounding....to me...more expansive soundstage...better clarity and depth to the music.

    I even compared the Oppo's DACs to my AVR and CDP DACs. The AVR and standard Oppo DACs sounded...to me....a bit dull.

    So - cost really doesn't mean much.

    Rig set up, synergy and the sound you are looking are the determining factors.

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • 98Badger
    98Badger Posts: 317
    edited June 2010
    Erik,

    Where did you see the regular price for the DACmagic being over $600? I bought one when they came out and the introductory price was $399 and bumped up to $450 later on. I'll second your comments. I'm very happy with the improvement it added to my system. The only other DAC I've compared it to is the PSAudio DIII. The PSAudio seemed to provide tighter bass, but is was a little brighter than the DACmagic for higer frequencies. Both had their strengths and weaknesses, but I don't know that I'd say one was better than the other.
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited June 2010
    98Badger wrote: »
    Erik,

    Where did you see the regular price for the DACmagic being over $600? I bought one when they came out and the introductory price was $399 and bumped up to $450 later on. I'll second your comments. I'm very happy with the improvement it added to my system. The only other DAC I've compared it to is the PSAudio DIII. The PSAudio seemed to provide tighter bass, but is was a little brighter than the DACmagic for higer frequencies. Both had their strengths and weaknesses, but I don't know that I'd say one was better than the other.

    Sorry for the confusion - my 640c V2 CDP sold retail for over $600 - not the DAC Magic.

    It has been my personal experience that with the same analog ICs and if you can level match for comparison purposes - not all DACs sound the same - contrary to what the "post parrots" and "link lemmings" will tell you.

    Sometimes the differences are subtle - other times easy as pie to pick out.

    And personal preferences will determine what is 'best' sounding.

    I'll be the first to admit that my CDP is 'middling' in price and SQ. But its all about trying gear out and educating yourself.

    If you like detail and a firm bottom (who doesn't eh? :p) then the CA DAC will most likely deliver.

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited June 2010
    In a few words, I don't think "meaningful improvements" can be realized with a $500 DAC. Just my opinion, and I'd hate to see you disappointed with your purchase. I'm talking a $500 NEW unit, not a $1500 DAC, that you're buying used for $500 bucks.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • Krazyz1
    Krazyz1 Posts: 256
    edited July 2010
    California Audio Labs Sigma ii is the hot ticket.
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,068
    edited July 2010
    I just added the Music Hall dac25.2 to my system & the results have been spectacular. I didn't know what to expect but with a home audition from the dealer I gave it a try. And I'll repeat...the results have been spectacular! This puppy has a home now. :)
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • markmarc
    markmarc Posts: 2,309
    edited July 2010
    Both the Cambridge DAC Magic and the Music Hall 25.2 are nice budget DAC's. Personally, both have more life in them than Bel Canto, which IMHO is about as sterile as level 5 in the movie "Andromeda Strain".

    My personal recommendation is to spend the $500 and modify the LSi9 x-overs, you'll gain far more resolution going that route. Then save up $1k and find a higher quality used DAC.
    Review Site_ (((AudioPursuit)))
    Founder/Publisher Affordable$$Audio 2006-13.
    Former Staff Member TONEAudio
    2 Ch. System
    Amplifiers: Parasound Halo P6 pre, Vista Audio i34, Peachtree amp500, Adcom GFP-565 GFA-535ii, 545ii, 555ii
    Digital: SimAudio HAD230 DAC, iMac 20in/Amarra,
    Speakers: Paradigm Performa F75, Magnepan .7, Totem Model 1's, ACI Emerald XL, Celestion Si Stands. Totem Dreamcatcher sub
    Analog: Technics SL-J2 w/Pickering 3000D, SimAudio LP5.3 phono pre
    Cable/Wires: Cardas, AudioArt, Shunyata Venom 3
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  • dkg999
    dkg999 Posts: 5,647
    edited July 2010
    If you can push your budget some the PS Audio DLIII DAC is still being discounted to $699 I believe. I have that DAC and it's outstanding at that price!
    DKG999
    HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED

    Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC
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  • punk-roc
    punk-roc Posts: 1,150
    edited July 2010
    I've seen lots of PS Audio DLIII's go used for around $500 on the 'gon as well. I was considering picking one up for a while.. eventually got side-tracked by other purchases =)

    Jason
    2-Channel - So far...
    Pre: Dodd ELP
    DAC: W4S-Dac2
    Source(s): Computer and Denon 2910
    Amp: Parasound HCA-1200II
    Speakers: LSi9s - Vr3 Fortress Mod
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  • bklynNupe
    bklynNupe Posts: 728
    edited July 2010
    markmarc wrote: »
    Both the Cambridge DAC Magic and the Music Hall 25.2 are nice budget DAC's. Personally, both have more life in them than Bel Canto, which IMHO is about as sterile as level 5 in the movie "Andromeda Strain".

    My personal recommendation is to spend the $500 and modify the LSi9 x-overs, you'll gain far more resolution going that route. Then save up $1k and find a higher quality used DAC.

    For me, this would be the preferred upgrade order as well.

    IMO, those x-overs in the Lsi9’s are mandatory. I noticed a major improvement in overall detail the moment I reconnected my 9’s. :D
    I also think my Music Hall was money well spent out of the box.
    I know that if I want to upgrade this great bargain dac, I’m anticipating spending at least double what I spend for the Music Hall.
    I continue to do my research because there is always better within budget if we include used inventory, but I’m honestly don’t feel in a immediate rush to replace my music hall dac.

    emotiva xpa-2
    emotiva xpa-3
    Denon 3312ci
    Rtia9 /csia6 / FXi A6
    Samsung LN46A650
    SVS PB-12-NSD sub

    Audio Research SP-9 MKIII (GNSC mods)
    W4S ST250
    Lsi 9 (mods)
    W4S DAC-2
    Mac Mini
    Audio Aero Prima CD player
    Pro-Ject debut
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,068
    edited July 2010
    bklynNupe wrote: »
    For me, this would be the preferred upgrade order as well.

    IMO, those x-overs in the Lsi9’s are mandatory. I noticed a major improvement in overall detail the moment I reconnected my 9’s. :D
    I also think my Music Hall was money well spent out of the box.
    I know that if I want to upgrade this great bargain dac, I’m anticipating spending at least double what I spend for the Music Hall.
    I continue to do my research because there is always better within budget if we include used inventory, but I’m honestly don’t feel in a immediate rush to replace my music hall dac.

    I'll definetely second that Music Hall dac25.2 recommendation. This jem has has been a real treat. And now I can have some fun with tube rolling!!! :D
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • lakesailor
    lakesailor Posts: 319
    edited July 2010
    For what it is worth I originally had a PS Audio Digital Link III and quite liked it until I heard an older Theta that was a $ 2K unit when new. Loved the Theta and managed to track one down used. More recently have the Musical Fidelity KW 25 CD Transport and DAC combination – truly a match made in heaven, although sadly I seldom listen to CD’s much these days.
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