Full LSI HT setup

acmf74

I recently set up my 5.1 HT system. It is a full LSi set-up with a 12" Velodyne sub. I set my AVR to FULL on all the speakers (no crossover) and they sound great. Does anyone else listen to all their speakers in FULL or am I doing something wrong?

Thanks...

kawizx9r

An all-LSi setup, must sound nice!

Off the subject though, I recommend you hook up those LSi's to an external amp unless you don't mind keeping it on a low level running off your receiver.

PSOVLSK

I don't think it's "right" or "wrong", but rather what sounds best to you. That being said, I run my speakers "Small" when using a sub and usually crossover around 80.

Nice setup!! As kawizx9r said, an external amp should be next on your upgrade list. I'm sure you're fine with the AVR, but a good external amp will give a lot of improvement.

bluecomet

I run an all Lsi HT system and I also run all the speakers on large because it simply sound best in my system. You are doing nothing wrong. I agree with the other posts that you really need to look into an external amp. I don't think there is a AVR that could handle my Lsi system. which is a 7.1 plus two presence speakers. If you crank up you system you are going to damage those speakers and the AVR. Trust me and do yourself a favor and find a good external 5 channel amp. You can go with anything from Emotiva to Sunfire and you would be fine. If anything it will handle the 4 ohm speakers and safeguard your speakers and receiver from being damaged.

acmf74

I was thinking of picking up a 2nd amp but the receiver sounds amazing as is.

Adcom rated it as 4ohm stable.

Can someone explain to me what the "EIA/CEA 490-A (4ohms x 5) 265watt" means?

and it also states RMS (4 Ohm x 5) 148watt.

I'm confused on the rating.

Bernal

acmf74 wrote: »

I was thinking of picking up a 2nd amp but the receiver sounds amazing as is.

Adcom rated it as 4ohm stable.

Can someone explain to me what the "EIA/CEA 490-A (4ohms x 5) 265watt" means?

and it also states RMS (4 Ohm x 5) 148watt.

I'm confused on the rating.

1.- http://www.ce.org/Standards/CEA-490-A_R-2008_Preview.pdf

2.- Congratulations.
LSi series is excellent.



01) DENON AVR-4308CI: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH A/V Home Theater /MultiMedia Multi-Source/Zone Receiver with Networking and WiFi/170 watts x 7 channels
02) SUNFIRE Grand Signature - Bob Carver's and SUNFIRE Cinema Grand
03) OPPO BDP-83SE Blu-ray Disc Player w/SACD & DVD-Audio
04) OPPO DV-980H 1080p Up-Converting Universal DVD Player with HDMI and 7.1CH Audio
05) DENON DVD-2500BTCI: Blu-ray Disc™ DVD/CD Digital Player/Transport
06) HITACHI P55T501. 55" HD1080 Plasma HDTV
07) POLKAUDIO LSiC (Center speaker)
08) POLKAUDIO LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker)
09) POLKAUDIO LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker)
10) POLKAUDIO LSiC Vertically (Surround speaker)
11) POLKAUDIO LSiC Vertically (Surround speaker)
12) POLKAUDIO LSif/x LEFT (Surround back speakers)
13) POLKAUDIO LSif/x RIGHT (Surround back speakers)
14) VELODYNE OPTIMUN SERIES 12"(High Output Digital EQ SubWoofer 2400W/1200WRMS)
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=98096 (Not updated)

mdaudioguy

bluecomet wrote: »

I run an all Lsi HT system and I also run all the speakers on large because it simply sound best in my system. You are doing nothing wrong. I agree with the other posts that you really need to look into an external amp. I don't think there is a AVR that could handle my Lsi system. which is a 7.1 plus two presence speakers. If you crank up you system you are going to damage those speakers and the AVR. Trust me and do yourself a favor and find a good external 5 channel amp. You can go with anything from Emotiva to Sunfire and you would be fine. If anything it will handle the 4 ohm speakers and safeguard your speakers and receiver from being damaged.

Really, just anything will do? I haven't actually seen or heard that Adcom AVR myself, but reading up on it, I'd surmise that it's no slouch! I think the automatic recommendation that he must have an external amp may be somewhat hasty, given that the OP himself says,

acmf74 wrote: »

I recently set up my 5.1 HT system. It is a full LSi set-up with a 12" Velodyne sub. I set my AVR to FULL on all the speakers (no crossover) and they sound great.

McLoki

Personally - Don't sweat the amp (with your particular AVR anyway) and if you do decide to go that route, I would make sure to try something out you can return if you do not see a decent difference with it.

I would spend the money on a better sub or upgrading the crossovers in your LSi's - both (in my opinion) would give you a better bang for your buck upgrade than an amplifier upgrade. (once again - considering your AVR)


One suggestion I would make though after looking at your showcase pictures - flip your center channel over. It appears that your center is aimed at your seating postion (a good thing) but the tweeter is near the top of the cabinet it is sitting in. Flip the center over so the tweeter is on the bottom (be sure to readjust the angle the center is sitting at if neccessary) and you may get a little better sound out of it.

Regarding your question - I would only run your speakers at full range if they have better bass response than your subwoofer. (and then - only until you got the funds for a better sub)

I cross my LSi's over at 80hz for a number of reasons that may be specific to my situation but here are some of them.....

1) My subs are way better than my speakers at producing deep bass.

2) My room is not very good for bass and I can put the subs where the room / bass interaction works best. (obviously not all my speakers can sit in the same spot)

3) I have an EQ to help correct my bass and it is only on my subwoofer output - any bass that goes to my other speakers is not corrected at all (and you can tell when you run them full range).

4) The midrange sounds better when the speaker is not asked to peform deep bass notes that it really cannot do well anyway.

5) I mainly listen to digital sources so my source is converting from digital anyway. (if you mainly play analog sources - your AVR has to covert to digital to do the crossover and then back to analog to play the sound. due to that, your 2-channel listening may benefit from running full range speakers, but when watching blu-ray, there is no audio benefit to it at all.

I am sure there are more reasons, but that is what I can think of off the top of my head. Up to you if any of those reasons are valid for your situation or not. Basically - I would try it both ways and keep it the way that sounds best to you. What sounds best in my house should have no impact to how you want to set up your speakers at yours...

Michael

bluecomet

My mistake. I was at work at took a quick glance at his gear and for some reason I thought he was runnning a Sony AVR. I am sure the Adcom AVR is nice. It is stable at 4 ohms. I was reading up on the adcom and I couldn't get the specs on the output at 4 ohms. It just says it puts out 145 watts per channel. That is o.k. but it is a far cry than 400 watts at 4 ohms from a Sunfire. I would still use a quality external amp if you want to wake up those Lsi's.

mdaudioguy

^^^^^^^^^^^^ Excellent post!

Ed

Edit: Sorry bluecomet I was aiming for post #8, above.

mdaudioguy

bluecomet wrote: »

My mistake. I was at work at took a quick glance at his gear and for some reason I thought he was runnning a Sony AVR. I am sure the Adcom AVR is nice. It is stable at 4 ohms. I was reading up on the adcom and I couldn't get the specs on the output at 4 ohms. It just says it puts out 145 watts per channel. That is o.k. but it is a far cry than 400 watts at 4 ohms from a Sunfire. I would still use a quality external amp if you want to wake up those Lsi's.

From: http://www.adcom.com/data/brochures/GFR700HD-SHEET-WEB.pdf

Power Per Channel: 145 watts (8Ω) x 5
265 watts (4Ω) x 5
Frequency Response: 10Hz to 50kHz, +0/-3dB

Not 400, but not too shabby! Although, I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm not sure how much more would be needed in the OP's room.

LessisNevermore

One more vote for running full range. (and my mains are LSi9)
I ran them for years off an older Denon AVR 2802, with no ill-effects. Played within reasonable volumes, of course....did get it warm a couple times from uh,...'elevated' volumes.;)

I did go to an external amp, and gained a big boost in sound quality. You can always do it a piece at a time as budget allows.

acmf74

thank you all for the responses..

I will make some changes and see what set-up sounds better.

I probalbly will have to change the fronts to 80 hz because the bass does become overwhelming at times.

acmf74

....

acmf74

....

Bernal

My recommendation:

Bernal wrote:

① ⇓-Preference-⇓
◊ Main speakers - SMALL - crossover to 60 Hz,
◊ Center - SMALL - crossover to 60 Hz,
◊ Surround - SMALL - crossover to 60 Hz,
◊ Subwoofer - crossover to 60 Hz,
◊ LFE (Low Frequency Effects) channel - crossover to 120Hz.

②
◊ Main speakers - SMALL - crossover to 80 Hz,
◊ Center - SMALL - crossover to 80 Hz,
◊ Surround - SMALL - crossover to 80 Hz,
◊ Subwoofer - crossover to 80 Hz,
◊ LFE (Low Frequency Effects) channel - crossover to 80Hz.

③
◊ Main speakers - SMALL - crossover to 80 Hz,
◊ Center - SMALL - crossover to 100 Hz,
◊ Surround - SMALL - crossover to 80 Hz,
◊ Subwoofer - crossover to 80 Hz,
◊ LFE (Low Frequency Effects) channel - crossover to 120Hz.

④ ⇓-Preference-⇓

◊ Main speakers - LARGE,
◊ Center - SMALL - crossover to 60 Hz,
◊ Surround - SMALL - crossover to 60 Hz,
◊ Subwoofer - crossover to 60 Hz,
◊ LFE (Low Frequency Effects) channel - crossover to 120Hz.


LSi are speakers at 4 ohms. Check processor.

---

01) DENON AVR-4308CI: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH A/V Home Theater /MultiMedia Multi-Source/Zone Receiver with Networking and WiFi/170 watts x 7 channels
02) SUNFIRE Grand Signature - Bob Carver's and SUNFIRE Cinema Grand
03) OPPO BDP-83SE Blu-ray Disc Player w/SACD & DVD-Audio
04) OPPO DV-980H 1080p Up-Converting Universal DVD Player with HDMI and 7.1CH Audio
05) DENON DVD-2500BTCI: Blu-ray Disc™ DVD/CD Digital Player/Transport
06) HITACHI P55T501. 55" HD1080 Plasma HDTV
07) POLKAUDIO LSiC (Center speaker)
08) POLKAUDIO LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker)
09) POLKAUDIO LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker)
10) POLKAUDIO LSiC Vertically (Surround speaker)
11) POLKAUDIO LSiC Vertically (Surround speaker)
12) POLKAUDIO LSif/x LEFT (Surround back speakers)
13) POLKAUDIO LSif/x RIGHT (Surround back speakers)
14) VELODYNE OPTIMUN SERIES 12"(High Output Digital EQ SubWoofer 2400W/1200WRMS)
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...p?userid=98096 (Not updated)

PSOVLSK

Though I did say you would be okay with your AVR but that you'd want an amp to be your next upgrade, I'm going to back off that statement a little bit. My experience with an H/K 7300 was that it sounded fine driving my LSi's. It did however run pretty hot. When I got external amplification (lower end Adcom) the sound didn't improve much at all, but my H/K ran cooler. So if you're happy with the sound and your AVR isn't working too hard, don't worry too much about an amp...until you just want to upgrade.

BTW, excellent post with great info McLoki.

TouchOfEvil

Congrats on the setup. I personally run a mixture of large/small. IMO go with what sounds the best to your ears.

Bernal

McLoki wrote: »

....One suggestion I would make though after looking at your showcase pictures - flip your center channel over. It appears that your center is aimed at your seating postion (a good thing) but the tweeter is near the top of the cabinet it is sitting in. Flip the center over so the tweeter is on the bottom (be sure to readjust the angle the center is sitting at if neccessary) and you may get a little better sound out of it....

Michael


Interesting observation.
Can you explain more widely.
It has a link to learn about the topic

---

01) DENON AVR-4308CI: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH A/V Home Theater /MultiMedia Multi-Source/Zone Receiver with Networking and WiFi/170 watts x 7 channels
02) SUNFIRE Grand Signature - Bob Carver's and SUNFIRE Cinema Grand
03) OPPO BDP-83SE Blu-ray Disc Player w/SACD & DVD-Audio
04) OPPO DV-980H 1080p Up-Converting Universal DVD Player with HDMI and 7.1CH Audio
05) DENON DVD-2500BTCI: Blu-ray Disc™ DVD/CD Digital Player/Transport
06) HITACHI P55T501. 55" HD1080 Plasma HDTV
07) POLKAUDIO LSiC (Center speaker)
08) POLKAUDIO LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker)
09) POLKAUDIO LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker)
10) POLKAUDIO LSiC Vertically (Surround speaker)
11) POLKAUDIO LSiC Vertically (Surround speaker)
12) POLKAUDIO LSif/x LEFT (Surround back speakers)
13) POLKAUDIO LSif/x RIGHT (Surround back speakers)
14) VELODYNE OPTIMUN SERIES 12"(High Output Digital EQ SubWoofer 2400W/1200WRMS)
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=98096 (Not updated)

McLoki

In gereral - having your center channel inside a cabinet is something to be avoided, but in some instances (like when you are married to someone that cares more about look than sound) it is unavoidable.

Based on that - my first recommendation is to set a stand in front of the cabinet and when you want to watch a movie with good sound, set the center channel on the stand. After the movie is over, put the center back in the cabinet and stand back in the closet. (This suggestion had to be made - even though I know it will probably not be followed, heck it wouldn't be followed at my house either. - I would get the stand and then never use it...)

Anyway - here is the picture in question...



You can see it is tilted up (as I said, a good thing) but the tweeter appears to be very close to the top of the cabinet. If you flipped the center over so the tweeter was on the bottom, I think it may improve the highs somewhat. (If I am wrong, just flip it back over the way you had it)

It is a zero cost test that may net some benefits.

Michael

acmf74

McLoki wrote: »

In gereral - having your center channel inside a cabinet is something to be avoided, but in some instances (like when you are married to someone that cares more about look than sound) it is unavoidable.

Based on that - my first recommendation is to set a stand in front of the cabinet and when you want to watch a movie with good sound, set the center channel on the stand. After the movie is over, put the center back in the cabinet and stand back in the closet. (This suggestion had to be made - even though I know it will probably not be followed, heck it wouldn't be followed at my house either. - I would get the stand and then never use it...)

Anyway - here is the picture in question...



You can see it is tilted up (as I said, a good thing) but the tweeter appears to be very close to the top of the cabinet. If you flipped the center over so the tweeter was on the bottom, I think it may improve the highs somewhat. (If I am wrong, just flip it back over the way you had it)

It is a zero cost test that may net some benefits.

Michael

Thanks Mike.. I'm going to try flipping it over and taking it out completely during movie playback. I'm interested to see if it will sound better/different. I'll report back with the results.