LED ZEPPELIN Mothership.

nooshinjohn

This is a 4lp "Greatest Hits" compilation on 180g Vinyl... I will do a full review after I have a chance to play it through, but the first couple tracks have my jaw hanhing open. This is a MUST HAVE set!!!:D:D:cool:

nooshinjohn

Keiko wrote: »

Some have reported and I've read others that said this was horribly done, John.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92648&highlight=mothership

I have yet to give it a full listen, and maybe with the tubes I have in the loop, it takes some of the edge off. I do not even know which version I have, but I figured that with no Zep in my collection yet that it would not be a bad way to start.

Fongolio

From what I've heard the Classic Records versions of Zep are the ones to get, but very rare and very expensive. Next to that the very first issues are the best that I've listened to. I've got a Robert Ludwig mastered Houses of the Holy that is superb. I have all the others in 2nd and 3rd pressings and quite honestly I prefer vinyl rips to cd's of them all from first issue vinyl. I've got a cd copy of Mothership and I was extrememly impressed with this mastering. I don't know why some people don't like it, to me it's the best Zeppelin has ever sounded outside of a live show.

Kelvin

nooshinjohn

I have never owned a Zeppelin recording of any kind. I do not find the LP's to be hot or harsh in any way so far, but I have no real frame of reference at this point to make a comparison.

F1nut

The mastering of Mothership is terrible. In fact, it's criminal. Tubes don't help either.

comfortablycurt

I've never heard the vinyl...but I've got it on CD. It sounds AWFUL compared to other Zep recordings I've heard. It's another case of bringing levels up, adding compression...and generally being too hot sounding.


Sound quality aside though, Mothership is a great "introduction" to Zeppelin, because it takes you through some of the bigger songs throughout their entire career. Track wise, it's a great collection. I listen to it a lot, but mainly only in my car. It doesn't see much play on the main rig...when I crave Zeppelin on the 2 channel...I bust out my vinyl.:)

hearingimpared

F1nut wrote: »

The mastering of Mothership is terrible. In fact, it's criminal. Tubes don't help either.

Yep John this is a true statement. Very bright and very hot! IMHO!

If you can ever get your hands on the Classic Records 200 gm pressings, they are the ones that will make your jaw drop but as Kelvin said, they are now very expensive. I have LZ 1 through "Houses of the Holy." I bought them when they first came out so the price was like $29 to $39 a pop. Now you can't touch them for less than $100 if you're lucky.

I hope the tubes take the bite off of it for you. I can say this you are lucky you didn't buy the CD :eek::eek::eek: earbleeder. The LP's a tad warmer but still . . .

Tony the Vette would love the CD set!!!

Fongolio

My memory of Mothership must be dim because I thought it was well mastered. I'll have to listen again.

vc69

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I have yet to give it a full listen, and maybe with the tubes I have in the loop, it takes some of the edge off. I do not even know which version I have, but I figured that with no Zep in my collection yet that it would not be a bad way to start.

Good grief.

nooshinjohn

vc69 wrote: »

Good grief.

I knew I would catch a bit of flak for that admission.:);)

I am having a hard time hearing what you guys are talking about however. The imaging and soundstage presented by the SDA's is amazing, and I detect nothing hot or bright about the recording. I will be looking for another LP to comparee this to, but for now, I do not hear what the rest of you are hearing.

hearingimpared

Fongolio wrote: »

My memory of Mothership must be dim because I thought it was well mastered. I'll have to listen again.

Yes indeed Kel! Either that or clean your ears out as the high finger-nail-on-the-chalkboard sound was probably absorbed!:D

hearingimpared

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I knew I would catch a bit of flak for that admission.:);)

I am having a hard time hearing what you guys are talking about however. The imaging and soundstage presented by the SDA's is amazing, and I detect nothing hot or bright about the recording. I will be looking for another LP to comparee this to, but for now, I do not hear what the rest of you are hearing.

See how long you can listen to it before listening fatique sets in.

nooshinjohn

hearingimpared wrote: »

See how long you can listen to it before listening fatique sets in.

I will be doing that tonight. I have yet to hear a "bright LP".;):cool:

hearingimpared

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I will be doing that tonight. I have yet to hear a "bright LP".;):cool:

You gotta be kidding me! I have some that make CDs sound like origianal master tapes.:eek:

heiney9

Mothership (the cd version) is an atrocity. Give me the original hissy cd releases made in some instances from 2nd and 3rd gen copies of masters over Mothership. Early Days and Latter Days isn't any better.

The really sick thing is Jimmy was involved in remastering these.

H9

dkg999

Keiko wrote: »

Might want to check out these 180g pressings of The Song Remains The Same. I own it and I'm pleased with the audio quality. You get a lot for 60.00 bucks with this box set.

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/80632

That's the one to get! Excellent mastering and pressing!

BottomFeeder

I've read that the Led Zep Box Set is really the way to go if you're going w/cd's. I've read that it's very well mastered.

mdaudioguy

How does Mothership compare to this?

http://www.amazon.com/Led-Zeppelin/dp/B000002IQ1/ref=ntt_mus_ep_wlb_dpt

nooshinjohn

Maybe it's just the combination of gear in my stack or perhaps I am loosing my hearing, but I have to tell you guys that I don't hear the brightness that you guys have been speaking about. It sounds fantastic...

comfortablycurt

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Maybe it's just the combination of gear in my stack or perhaps I am loosing my hearing, but I have to tell you guys that I don't hear the brightness that you guys have been speaking about. It sounds fantastic...

It's because you don't have any other Zeppelin recordings to compare them to. The mastering on Mothership is completely godawful when compared to some of the older versions.

Get some other Zeppelin vinyl, and you'll see what we're talking about.;)

Norm Apter

BottomFeeder wrote: »

I've read that the Led Zep Box Set is really the way to go if you're going w/cd's. I've read that it's very well mastered.

Yes, there are two older (90s) Led Zeppelin Box Sets.

1) One is the 4-CD set mentioned above.

http://www.amazon.com/Led-Zeppelin/dp/B000002IQ1/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1276579919&sr=1-1

2) The other is the 10-CD set called Led Zeppelin: The Complete Studio Recordings (which just as its name suggests has all of the released albums plus some bonus tracks on the CODA CD.

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Studio-Recordings-Led-Zeppelin/dp/B000002IWP/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1276579429&sr=1-1

Each of these two sets consists of the remasters done by George Marino & Jimmy Page himself. Generally speaking, they are pretty good (not perfect, but pretty good). There are endless debates over whether the original pressed CDs put out by Barry Diament are better or if the Page-Marino remasters are better, but as far as I can tell supporters of each are rather evenly divided. Without a clear-cut winner, it mostly comes down to personal preference.

About 8 years ago, I wanted to get beyond the two discs I had at the time --Led Zeppelin II and Houses of the Holy, so I ordered the 4-CD set from an Amazon Marketplace seller. They were advertised as Used/Like New but the guy shipped me the 10-CD Complete recordings instead. I suppose I could have sent it back, but that thought quickly vanished once I got to hear them

One of the reasons I ordered the 4-CD set was to get a copy of "Travelling Riverside Blues" which is one of my favorite Zeppelin songs but never made it on to a proper album so to speak. Fortunately, its also included in the 10-CD set "The Complete Recordings" that was mailed to me.

I don't have a turntable, but just recently I've been getting into needledrops of vinyl copies (some of which are mentioned above...Classic Records and Robert Ludwig mastered vinyl). The convenience of a CD with the warmth and range of the analogue sound...it doesn't get any better than that.

But going back to CDs, if you don't have any Zeppelin and you want to get a taste of their best stuff pick up the 4-CD set (1990) mentioned above. Not perfect, but definately a better alternative to Mothership for a general introduction.

After you pick up that, assuming you like it, then move on to How The West Was Won, a great sounding triple-CD live recording compilation from a few concerts in San Bernadino and L.A. in June 1972. I say this because Led Zeppelin live must be taken into consideration to fully appreciate the magnitude and prowess of this band (especially when they were still on top of their game (i.e. before Plant's voice went to crap (1973) and Pagey was strung out on heroin (1977). Like the vikings alluded to in "Immigrant Song," the mighty Zep came to Cali, they saw and they kicked ****!

Fongolio

Ok, I have to retract my earlier statement about the Mothership release. Using Audacity I compared the cd version of Good Times Bad Times on Mothership with a vinyl rip of the Classic Records re-issues disk one Good Times Bad Times and the wave forms speak for themselves. The Mothership mastering is extremely "hot". The levels were way to high and it was obviously clipped heavily. On re-listening to the Mothership CD version it becomes obvious. I think I must have been delerious when I first heard and really liked it. I still find it thorouly enjoyable in the car where road noise rattles and wind suck the SQ out of almost anything ("89 IROC). Loud is good there but on the home system, the Classic records vinyl rip wins hands down. Please see attached pics of the wave forms.

nooshinjohn

Fongolio wrote: »

Ok, I have to retract my earlier statement about the Mothership release. Using Audacity I compared the cd version of Good Times Bad Times on Mothership with a vinyl rip of the Classic Records re-issues disk one Good Times Bad Times and the wave forms speak for themselves. The Mothership mastering is extremely "hot". The levels were way to high and it was obviously clipped heavily. On re-listening to the Mothership CD version it becomes obvious. I think I must have been delerious when I first heard and really liked it. I still find it thorouly enjoyable in the car where road noise rattles and wind suck the SQ out of almost anything ("89 IROC). Loud is good there but on the home system, the Classic records vinyl rip wins hands down. Please see attached pics of the wave forms.

I guess I am still missing how the CD version being hot impacts the Vinyl version of the same recording. As was suggested earlier, I will be getting my hands on some other lp's in the near future so I can make a better comparison.

heiney9

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I guess I am still missing how the CD version being hot impacts the Vinyl version of the same recording. As was suggested earlier, I will be getting my hands on some other lp's in the near future so I can make a better comparison.

John, can you see the two graphical wave forms? If so, I don;t understand what your question is. The picture speaks for itself.

The cd is massively compressed the vinyl isn't. If there was a poor vinyl version that was also compressed when it was mastered then that vinyl version would look very close to the first graph. Not everything recorded on vinyl is great, you can have just as poor or worse recording on vinyl as you can on cd or tape or a digital file. It's not the medium but the mastering.

H9

Bubinga99

Fongolio wrote: »

"...and the wave forms speak for themselves. The Mothership mastering is extremely "hot". The levels were way to high and it was obviously clipped heavily."

While that does have the "blast-o-phonic" mastering applied I wouldn't call it extremely hot.

This (from the new Jeff Beck CD), I'd call extremely hot:



I have the 4 disc LZ set, the 2 disc LZ set, and all of the original-release vinyl (except Song Remains the Same). These were all released before "blast-o-phonic" mastering became fashionable, so you'd be safe with these box sets.

But in my opinion, you miss something, style-wise, if you don't have all the separate albums. It's just not the same to listen to mixes of songs across the albums, especially if you're not familiar with the styles on each album. Get the separates if you can swing it.

Erik Tracy

Bubinga99 wrote: »

While that does have the "blast-o-phonic" mastering applied I wouldn't call it extremely hot.

This (from the new Jeff Beck CD), I'd call extremely hot:



I have the 4 disc LZ set, the 2 disc LZ set, and all of the original-release vinyl (except Song Remains the Same). These were all released before "blast-o-phonic" mastering became fashionable, so you'd be safe with these box sets.

But in my opinion, you miss something, style-wise, if you don't have all the separate albums. It's just not the same to listen to mixes of songs across the albums, especially if you're not familiar with the styles on each album. Get the separates if you can swing it.

I'm fatigued just looking at the waveforms!! :eek::p

hearingimpared

heiney9 wrote: »

John, can you see the two graphical wave forms? If so, I don;t understand what your question is. The picture speaks for itself.

The cd is massively compressed the vinyl isn't. If there was a poor vinyl version that was also compressed when it was mastered then that vinyl version would look very close to the first graph. Not everything recorded on vinyl is great, you can have just as poor or worse recording on vinyl as you can on cd or tape or a digital file. It's not the medium but the mastering.

H9

Brock & John, the original LP I heard of Mothership was terribly compressed and hot as hell. Now, they may have remedied that with this new release so John you may not be getting that terrible sound.

heiney9

Yeah, I'm going to backtrack a bit on the two wave comparisons in this thread. Unless the same methodology was used for the analog wave as the digital there is no way to directly compare the two.

I assume the digital was a straight rip from the disc, while the analog had to be converted from analog to digital. If step weren't taken to ensure the two wave forms were created exactly the same then a true comparison can't be made. LessIsNevermore just pointed that out to me and after thinking about it, it makes sense.

LessisNevermore

Fongolio wrote: »

Ok, I have to retract my earlier statement about the Mothership release. Using Audacity I compared the cd version of Good Times Bad Times on Mothership with a vinyl rip of the Classic Records re-issues disk one Good Times Bad Times and the wave forms speak for themselves. The Mothership mastering is extremely "hot". The levels were way to high and it was obviously clipped heavily. On re-listening to the Mothership CD version it becomes obvious. I think I must have been delerious when I first heard and really liked it. I still find it thorouly enjoyable in the car where road noise rattles and wind suck the SQ out of almost anything ("89 IROC). Loud is good there but on the home system, the Classic records vinyl rip wins hands down. Please see attached pics of the wave forms.

Thanks for taking the time to do that comparison.
How did you ensure the input levels were equal between the analog and digital sources?

(considering that the cd rip bypassed any A/D conversion, as well as the preamp input) It could explain the difference in volume, as there appears to be similar dynamic range between the two, with the MS (cd) being louder.

Fongolio

heiney9 wrote: »

Yeah, I'm going to backtrack a bit on the two wave comparisons in this thread. Unless the same methodology was used for the analog wave as the digital there is no way to directly compare the two.

I assume the digital was a straight rip from the disc, while the analog had to be converted from analog to digital. If step weren't taken to ensure the two wave forms were created exactly the same then a true comparison can't be made. LessIsNevermore just pointed that out to me and after thinking about it, it makes sense.

I agree totally. I was only using it to show how the cd version was clearly clipped. The vinyl rip wave form was used only to demonstrate a more reasonable level setting on the same piece of music. I still stand by the assertion that, on the cd anyway, the mastering was very hot. I should have been clearer in my original posting just what I was trying to demonstrate.

Kelvin

heiney9

One thing I do agree with 1000% is the "Mothership's" cd mastering is very poor for standard hi-fi listening. In a car, on an Ipod or other portable I'm sure the compression is needed. But to try and play it on a nice hi-fi, forget it.

H9