SED Winged "C" EL34

heiney9

Opinions needed for this tube vs. NOS EL34's.

Looking at an amp that can use 6L6's or EL34's it also uses (2) 12AX7's and (2)12AU7's and checking prices for NOS EL34's along with the 12A*, this is getting expensive to re-tube.

I have read some good things about the current production SED Winged "C" and they are a little more reasonably priced.

Any opinions or feedback and discussion would be great.

H9

Ricardo

heiney9 wrote: »

Any opinions

You don't need another amp.

heiney9

Ricardo wrote: »

You don't need another amp.

It's a disease Ricardo, you of all people should know . It's another integrated to use in the office rig.

headrott

heiney9 wrote: »

Opinions needed for this tube vs. NOS EL34's.

Looking at an amp that can use 6L6's or EL34's it also uses (2) 12AX7's and (2)12AU7's and checking prices for NOS EL34's along with the 12A*, this is getting expensive to re-tube.

I have read some good things about the current production SED Winged "C" and they are a little more reasonably priced.

Any opinions or feedback and discussion would be great.

H9

Brock,

Can't say much about the EL34 tubes as I have never used them, but I have also read good things about the SED "Winged C" tubes.

If you want some NOS 12AX7's and 12AU7's, I would suggest some Valvo 45 degree angled halo getter 1950's Hamburg made 12AX7's. Or, some Amperex long plate large halo or D-getters 12AX7's. The Valvo's have better tones (by a little) and better detail and the Amperex have better soundstage, and are certainly no slouch on tones.

For the 12AU7's I would suggest some Amperex 7316's as they sound phenominal. They can be pretty expensive though. I just picked some up a few days ago and put them in my CD player. They made a very big difference. I had some Brimar 13D5 tubes in it and also tried some RCA "Clear top" 12AU7's. The Brimar's are no slouch especially tone wise. The RCA's are a little too bright to be put in a CD player, but might work well in an integrated amp depending on the other tubes. They have a great soundstage and a lot of detail. I am going to be recieving a pair of Mullard long plate square getter 1957 12AU7 tubes and will tell you what those are like too. I have read great things about them though.

Hope this helps out a little.

Greg

thsmith

H9, I had a quad of wing Cs in my Anthem Amp 1. I liked them alot. I thought they were well balanced tubes with some nice bass punch.

I eventually bought some Ei 6CA7s from Jesse which I still use but the WIng Cs held their own for the price difference.

zingo

I've recently picked up some great NOS front end tubes (12AT7 & 6FQ7/6CG7) from doctorcilantro. He also has those Gold Lion KT77 which are supposed to be killer. Good luck on the hunt and I have also heard good things on the SED Winged "C" tubes.

george daniel

I'm using some SED winged "C"'s in my quicksilver's,, and IMHO they are pretty good tubes.The VTL's are running 6L6's,, and have a tad more bass,, but the SED's have that sweet airy mid that everyone raves about.If you buy any,,might I suggest Jim Mc Shane for the SED's and pm me about another very good el-34,if you are innarested.;)

heiney9

Thanks to all for the suggestions. I will let you know if I have the winning bid and then the fun can begin. I already have an amp that uses 6V6's and while the 6L6's aren't exactly the same they are similar so I will be looking into EL34's and their equivalents if (when ) I win the amp.

Please keep the idea's coming.

H9

chargerman426

Sorry is this off the OP but, is this an new independent Russian tube compony? I know that EH, re-issue Tung-Sol, and re-issue Genelex tubes are made by the same compony so is the same people?

george daniel

here you go

http://www.tubedepot.com/sed.html

organ

H9,
I"ve tried all the EL34's except for the newer Gold Lion reissues. The SED are excellent sounding but there are better IMO. The Mullard EL34 reisues is very similar in tone but have better extension at both ends and greater dynamics. Both the SED and Mullard have a more 'romantic and lush' sound to them. The SED is on the warm and rich side and beats the Mullard in the highs (not extension).

But if that's the sound you're looking for, I don't see why you wouldn't be happy with SED.

IMO, the best one is the JJ KT77. It sounded like an amp upgrade. Now, I hear the new Gold Lions are even better but haven't tried them.

The EL34 are very addictive tubes to roll. I ended up getting all of them and rotate every few weeks or months lol.

As for NOS EL34's... Unless you can get original Mullards, you're better off going with current production.

Hope this helps

george daniel

Well I was gonna' keep this one to myself,, but you might want to consider the old Tesla El 34's,,, not to be confused with the JJ's.

F1nut

I was going to recommend the Ei 6CA7's (if you can find any), but I see Tracy bet me to the punch.

george daniel

Since the EI 6 CA7's are not that easy to find(at least for me),,I have been reasonably happy with the EH 6CA7's that I goy from Mr. McShane,reasonably priced as well,YMMV.

heiney9

Keep 'em coming.

My head is spinning thinking about all the possible tube combo's. Those of you that use tube gear and have a driver tube and pre tube and power tubes for each channel how do you match, decide what combo's work best?

If I go with say a Heerlen tube in the driver position should I stick with a Heerlen tube for the pre position? Or, can I mix and match say a Valvo Hamburg in the pre position and a Mullard type in the driver position?

I really don;t want to spend $300-500 on tube rolling. I have SO much invested in tubes for my other gear I just can't go down that road with the same extreme abandon I already have. For my other 3 pieces of tube gear I've probably spent close to $700+ on tubes and tube rolling, and with 12AX7 and 12AU7 being the most popular I can see a deep dark hole for this new amp.

I appreciate Headrott's suggestions so if other have some advice I'm all ears. This amp I'm watching is a pretty good deal even if it get's bid up, but my biggest concern is what it will cost me in the long run tube rolling to get the sound I want. Right now I'm considering passsing on the amp simply because of all the tube choices I would be looking at.

Look for a huge tube "sale" coming up. I may be selling off some of my other stash to make room for a new stash

H9

heiney9

One last thing. Is it safe to assume that the characteristics of the 12AX7 and 12AU7 are the same across manufacturer's as the 12AT7? Assume I really like the the Telefunken ECC81/12AT7 can I assume the ECC83/12AX7 Telefunken has about the same sound? That sure would make rolling a lot easier if they had similar sound.

Thanks

H9

headrott

Brock,

Regarding sound characteristics of different dula triode tube types and manufacturers: I think most tube types (Telefunken 12AX7/12AT7 example you used) works in ONLY some cases depending on the tube manufacturer and tubes types. I have heard both the Amperex 12AX7 long plate D-getter as well as the Amperex long plate D-getter 12AU7 tubes, but they don't have quite the same sound (in the gear I used, anyway). The differences wern't huge, but were there. Both types had the HUGE soundstage, but the high end was a little different between the two and the tones were very slightly different. Mind you, they were slight. OK, enough of the microanalysis.....

The bottom line is that I think in general, if you like the sound of a certain tube manufacturer then you should like it in the different tube types (assuming that the internal structure of the tube is identical).

Also, I have a pair of the Valvo Hamburg 45 degree angled 12AX7 tubes you can borrow to try out in the amp if you win it. (I am not using them currently as they were for my other pre-amp). I also have a pair of Brimar 13D5 (12AU7 equivalent) and a few pairs of RCA "clear tops" 12AU7 too if you want to try them out in the amp. At lease you can roll a few tubes without spending a fortune to get an idea of how they sound. Just let me know.

Greg

organ

Before you mix and match your signal tubes, find out what their roles are in your pre. For example, I used to have a pre that uses a pair of U7 and a single X7. The 12AX7 controls the gain while the pair of 12AU7 were buffers (one for each channel). So that means the pair of 12AU7 have to be the same brand/type, but I was free to choose any 12AX7 I wanted.

You don't have to match your pre amp's tubes to the ones in your amp. Find a combination that works best for you. Unless there is one brand you really enjoy and you want to hear more of it's characteristics in your system. If a pair of speakers are dark sounding or I want to brighten the presentation, I like using Electro Harmonix all the way.

I find that different brands tend to have their own 'house sound'. But threre are differences like Headrott mentioned with his experience with the Tele. Different types of tubes have their own sound, but usually the house sound remains.

heiney9

headrott wrote: »

Brock,
For the 12AU7's I would suggest some Amperex 7316's as they sound phenominal. They can be pretty expensive though. I just picked some up a few days ago and put them in my CD player. They made a very big difference. Hope this helps out a little.

Greg

You mean these?

http://www.hifiaudio.cn/en/result.jsp?id=162

headrott

Yep, those are them. I almost bought some from this company. Great sounding tubes. Not as detailed as some other tubes (like the Valvo Hamburg 12AU7's), but certainly not lacking detail by any means.

Greg

doctor r

Brock

I haved tried alot of the new issue EL34s in my amps, Tung Sol, Svetlana , Mullard new issue, and the new Genlex KT77. These were all New Sensor issued tubes, and I keep coming back to the SEDs. Better tubes across the board in my setup. I really wanted to like the KT77s but their soundstage was very 2 dimensional and though they had better extension in the top and bottom they never provided to magic that the SED EL34s do for me. I have found they are responsive to bias adjustment (33.8 milliamp is their best in my amps with 475 volts on the plate). Never have tried the Ei 6CA7s. Jim McShane is a great source when you decide to buy.

Rick

If you get the amp send me a PM. I have some spare quads I could loan you for comparison.

heiney9

Thanks Rick! I'll be in touch if (I mean when I win) the amp. I will be looking for a pair of 12AX7 and 12AU7. As far as I know the amp will ship w/ the less than stellar Chinese tubes. The stock power tubes are Ruby 6L6G.

H9

headrott

headrott wrote: »

Also, I have a pair of the Valvo Hamburg 45 degree angled 12AX7 tubes you can borrow to try out in the amp if you win it. (I am not using them currently as they were for my other pre-amp). I also have a pair of Brimar 13D5 (12AU7 equivalent) and a few pairs of RCA "clear tops" 12AU7 too if you want to try them out in the amp. At lease you can roll a few tubes without spending a fortune to get an idea of how they sound. Just let me know.

Greg

Also, I just won another set of 7316 off ebay yesterday, so I may be able to loan some to you also. Just let me know (by PM) if you want to try them out.

I got the pair of Mullard 1957 square getter long plate 12AU7 tubes and tried them in my CD player earlier tonight. They sound fantastic. They sound very smooth, detailed and the high end and bass from them is fantastic! They fit perfectly in a CD player (at least my CD player). Definately one to try!

Greg

heiney9

Greg and Rick thanks for the offers and I most likely will take you up on that.

george daniel

Doctor R wrote: »

Brock

I haved tried alot of the new issue EL34s in my amps, Tung Sol, Svetlana , Mullard new issue, and the new Genlex KT77. These were all New Sensor issued tubes, and I keep coming back to the SEDs. Better tubes across the board in my setup. I really wanted to like the KT77s but their soundstage was very 2 dimensional and though they had better extension in the top and bottom they never provided to magic that the SED EL34s do for me. I have found they are responsive to bias adjustment (33.8 milliamp is their best in my amps with 475 volts on the plate). Never have tried the Ei 6CA7s. Jim McShane is a great source when you decide to buy.

Rick

If you get the amp send me a PM. I have some spare quads I could loan you for comparison.

I purchased my SED EL 34's and my EH 6CA7's from Jim McShane--highly recommended guy to deal with.IIRC he does more than just test/match the tubes,,they are put under a load and tested before shipping.

HB27

Stick with the vintage Mullard XF2 if at all possible.
Cost may be initially a little more but the Mullard will last through decades and have a lot more music in them.
I understand wanting to save a couple of bucks intitially but you're spending good money on average sounding tubes compared to the Mullards.
If you're going to keep the amp fill it up with Mullards and be done with it.
I've used about every re-issue out there and I've found some satisfactory tubes. Nothing close to the Mullard though.

george daniel

Whats your secret Harry--Mullards ain't cheap and a quad would run what 500 dollah?

HB27

george daniel wrote: »

Whats your secret Harry--Mullards ain't cheap and a quad would run what 500 dollah?

Shop around and a good matched quad can be had for roughly $275 and up unless you get in a bidding war with some guy across the big pond.

heiney9

One thing I've noticed with Russian tubes, whether reissues or just standard 70's or 80's Russian tubes is most seem to be pretty balanced and aren't overly shrill on the top end and can actually have a nice "airy" top end but they tend to be quite a bit more 2 dimensional vs. the same style NOS tube from RCA, Telefunken, Mullard, Amperex, etc. I've found this to be true with 12AT7's, 6V6's, 6N1P, 6SL7, 5Y3

Is this typical for the 6CA7 or EL34 Russian sourced tubes? The best thing I like about tubes is they are so much more 3-D than transistors. If that goes away, I'm not really interested in getting any type of reissue or Russian made tube. I'll hold out for the good stuff and pay through the nose like everyone else.

HB27

IF you're running GOOD tubes you'll know if you're getting to the end of the useful lifespan of the tubes and you'll have time to shop around for good tubes to replace them.
You can take your time and eventually find a good price on some good tubes.

IF you wait until your tubes die then you'll have to pay out the arse to "have it now"

I've found the re-issues don't give much if any notice and will just "give up the ghost" leaving you without music or even damaged gear. I won't use them anymore. They are getting better but....

You get what you pay for. Simple as that.

heiney9

I was outbid on the particular amp I was looking at. I currently have two amps I swap around in the office rig. This would have been a 3rd that might have gotten a little use in the main rig as well. It sold for a fair price, but I just wasn;t willing to get into a bidding war for what was essentially another amp to play around with. If the price was right I was all over it.

I'm still looking and I'd like to get something with EL34's so I'll bump this thread again when I find something. Actually I am already looking at another amp; it's a lot less sexy and less power but it uses (2) EL34's and (3) 12AX7's. It's an SET with only 8 wpc and I'm just not sure if that's enough.

I'd still love to take Greg and Rick up on their offers in the future if I find something.

Thanks to all for the input.

H9