Building a budget high-powered 2 channel system

JimAckley

I'm going to be building up a 2 channel system. I was thinking of a pair of Monitor 40s, 50s, 60s, or 70s, and a pair of PSW505s. I love an extremely hard hitting low end, but I don't want to pay out the rear for it. I already have LSi25s and a PSW1000 in my nicer system, but the power plug on the amp for the 1000 shorted out or something like that (not the cord, the plug itself on the amp... weird... i know.), and I'm probably going to start trying to find a buyer for the 25s since they don't have the depth I desire to run subless, and I no longer have enough amplifier power to push them properly.

So a pair of 40s and 505s? A pair of 70s an 505s? Gimme the 411 fellas.

cnh

Don't know what to tell you...I have an M-70 grounded HT and I think they are the BEST in that series for 2 channel. But they can't hold a candle to the HIGHS/MIDS you get with the LSI series. And I don't use a sub when I listen in 2 channel. But this is NOT my main 2 channel rig.

I'd suggest something a bit more upscale....maybe Vintage Polk....like Monitor 7s or 10s, or SDA series? Large SDAs can run subless--no problem there.

Even if you go with 2 M-70s, I find they sound best with a POWER amplifier so I'd just keep the LSi-25s and get yourself a NEW sub!

cnh

dane_peterson

Mon70s will not create anywhere near the bass that a vintage SDA (or even Monitor) can do. Nor the overall quality of sound.

+1 for SDAs... (1C if you can find a pair) or Monitor7/10 with a sub. I've been pretty satisfied with the 7s and 10s even without a sub, but for a hard-hitting bass freak like you, you'll want something supplemental.

If you're partial to current line Polks, what about some LSi7s with a sub or two?

TECHNOKID

Monitor 70s and PSW505 are definitely a good bang for the buck these days: the 505 goes for roughly 250 in the state and if newegg still have their dale on the monitor 70s you get a decent 2 channels for a very low pricing.

I no longer have enough amplifier power to push them properly.

What do you mean? Do you have an amplifier to drive the monitor 70s? Your comment above and cnh's comment on amp puzzle me a bit, I don't understand.

Has cnh points out the monitor can not rival with your Lsi25 therefore you might be disappointed downgrading to monitor 70s, rifht?

Cheers!
TK

cnh

That's what I mean, TK...

One that I find my M-70s sound best when I add a power amp (200 watts into the mix). But if he is running LSIs already he MUST have a power amp...and since the LSIs are a better speaker...keep those and get a new sub....

Or do what you suggest, sell the LSis and downsize to LSI bookshelves and a micropro Sub.

I do believe that if you're used to 2 channel LSIs--the M-70s are not going to cut it!

cnh

RuSsMaN

Jim, you have the powered woofs on the 25's facing in, or out?

Cheers,
Russ

comfortablycurt

I'd go for some vintage Polk's. I haven't heard the LSi25's, but none of the newer Polk's I've ever heard can match the SDA's as far as sheer bass output goes. Even my little 2A's have enough bass output to get my house rockin'. The bigger SDA's will scramble your head...lol

Zitro

dane_peterson wrote: »

Mon70s will not create anywhere near the bass that a vintage SDA (or even Monitor) can do. Nor the overall quality of sound.

+1 for SDAs... (1C if you can find a pair) or Monitor7/10 with a sub. I've been pretty satisfied with the 7s and 10s even without a sub, but for a hard-hitting bass freak like you, you'll want something supplemental.

If you're partial to current line Polks, what about some LSi7s with a sub or two?

My vintage 2 channel rig, a 200wpc Sansui receiver and Monitor 10's, hits extremely low, hard and fast with no sub and is very accurate; I love closed-box speakers. If bass is your thing, try getting your hands on a pair of vintage M10's.

RuSsMaN

"Is it me, or is too much of this happening on this forum:

Person #1 - "Hi my name is Codfish and I currently have a Toyota. I'm THINKING of buying a Lexus but it might be a financial stretch. Does anybody have any experience with these? Thanks."

Person #2 - "Hey, try the Rolls-Royce. I read that they're okay, but expensive."


Is this HELPING anyone?

George Grand (of the Jersey Grand's)"






Thread two-eighty-one after the old re-do. http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281

Anyone have any thoughts on the new Monitors with a PSW505?

Cheers,
Russ

cnh

RuSsM...

You are right. And perhaps people should just use the search engine...but there's also the following problem: what does POLK think we should do with newer members who ask questions that have been answered many times before?

1. Politely tell them, as Brock, often does....the search engine is your friend?
2. Ignore them and let the thread die?
3. Be friendly, provide an opinion, move on, and let the Polk legacy players...continue to extend the real data base here with their vast knowledge of BAT, Cary, Esoteric, Raysonic, McIntosh, Krell, etc. And a life-time of experience with caps, resistors values, CBs, MIT I/Cs....Vinyl gems (TTs), synergy and so on.

You know what I mean. There are 'levels' to this hobby. And the old-timers are UP HERE and the new guys are just getting started and some of us are in the middle.

cnh

RuSsMaN

I feel you brother, all of the above sound good, except for option two.

I posted it light-heartedly, not meant as an attack on anyone, just reminded me of an old thread. I think the first thing to do is try and answer the initial question. Should one care to expound on their audio journey / wisdom following said answer, why not?

Threads derail daily, it just erks me when the initial question is never addressed.

xoxo,
Russ

Jstas

How about you just answer the question that was asked? Otherwise, if you don't know or don't have an opinion, you just stay out of it? Sorry if you think I'm being a jerk but I've been pointing out this same thing for years.

RuSsMaN

Hey John, I mentioned a cat-back in the green thread. Care to expound?

Jstas

No...

RuSsMaN

LOL! No, make that ROTFLLTMSAWWHTML!

(rolling on the floor laughing listening to my sda's and wondering what happened to my life)

TECHNOKID

Good post cnh.
One thing for sure, leading newbies into vintage surely doesn't do Polk any good. People should realize that having a passion fgor audio doesn't mean the same for everyone. Too often, the questions aren't read properly and bingo someone decide to tell the OP (a new comer) that is idea isn't worht anything and that he should go straight to Polk's vintage tweeking and so on. Helping newbies and doing good to Polk isn't leading the OP to what we like but rather help fullfill his needs requirements. Leading them to do a search is not the answer, you might as well not respond at all.

cfrizz

TECHNOKID wrote: »

Good post cnh.
One thing for sure, leading newbies into vintage surely doesn't do Polk any good. People should realize that having a passion fgor audio doesn't mean the same for everyone. Too often, the questions aren't read properly and bingo someone decide to tell the OP (a new comer) that is idea isn't worht anything and that he should go straight to Polk's vintage tweeking and so on. Helping newbies and doing good to Polk isn't leading the OP to what we like but rather help fullfill his needs requirements. Leading them to do a search is not the answer, you might as well not respond at all.

Great post TK and right on the money.

Not everything leads back to vintage gear, nor should it. I have vintage gear myself, but I would be willing to try new gear when the time comes. I have no problem with buying new.

Derailing a newbies thread with talk of something that has nothing to do with the question they asked is certainly not helpful. If you can't help with the question without bringing in SDA's or or other answers that would actually be helpful, it's better to not answer all together.

Jim, you should replace the PSW 1000 with one of Polks new DSW subs, they are simply terrific.

As for the LSI-25's I would hate to give up such great speakers. Hold on to them & when the funds become available start looking for a 200wpc @ 8ohms amp to drive them with to let them operate to their full potential.

For the amp I would look on Audiogon for a used one, since these are built to last for years. Brands to look at: Parasound, B & K, Outlaw, Adcom, Nad, Sunfire, & Rotel.

Good luck:)

JimAckley

To start off, I'm sure this question has been asked a million times, but you don't have to debate ignoring me to my face... that's just douchebaggery. In every other forum I've been to, they kindly refer people to other existing threads where it's been debated. Alot simpler than taking the time and energy to try to be an ****, isn't it? And just because I only have a few posts doesn't designate me a newbie. I've been building up systems since I was 12 and have had a passion for audio in the home, car, and pro areas for a long, long time. I'm just reaching out to some people for a simple answer to a simple question, not smartass replies.

Next, to answer a question or two, my LSi's are still down in Dallas, TX and i'm up in Denver, CO. The price to ship them is going to be a boatload so I was thinking I'd just build a new system, and pick up the LSi's whenever I can roadtrip down there again. I can't fully power them because I used to have a mid-range Crown 2-channel amp to push them, but I sold it. Right now I'm just using a Kenwood VR-9070 as my receiver/amp on my JBL E50s, since that's all I had room for in my Suburban when I moved. I love the setup, but I have always longed for a pair of 40s and a 505. A good family friend is a JBL dealer, so I got the E50s at a steal, but I always liked the sound of the Polks better.

Another stipulation was that I always found the highs on my 25's to be a little lacking. I know one of you commented that I'd be disappointed to step down to M's, but for some reason the highs on my E50s, and even my KLH indoor/outdoor speakers I have in my bathroom are much better than my LSi's.

When I ran the LSi's, the woofers were facing out, and the PSW1000 resided between them.

I'm not going to be letting go of my LSi's just yet. I at least want to get them up to my apt here in CO and do the xover mod and see how that improves things first.

I'd consider vintage, but things get pricey there and as the title states, I'm working on somewhat of a budget. This system won't be built overnight. I'm not trying to go for super high-end on this setup. I just want a good sound and more-than-solid bass.

TECHNOKID

I'd consider vintage, but things get pricey there and as the title states, I'm working on somewhat of a budget. This system won't be built overnight. I'm not trying to go for super high-end on this setup. I just want a good sound and more-than-solid bass.

pm-email sent!

deal off line if possible...

cnh

Hey Jim,

Sorry if we crapped on your thread with debates above. This site is undergoing some new policies regarding moderation and that's what some of that was really about?

Now back to your questions. First the info you provide above is great and helps a lot.

Regarding the LSis first...IMO the Crown amp will not do the LSI justice...I'd look at some of the other amps mentioned by cfrizz above. Another question there is what were you using as a pre-amp--that's also a factor.

Moving on. LSIs have a very velvety smooth warm detailed sound. Some people just don't like that....they prefer a more brilliant, edgier detail that resonates throughout the room and fills it. If you are the second type...then you might not actually enjoy the LSIs you may actually prefer the RTI series?

I have an older Kenwood 9000 series somewhere in my house..my first AVR....Big, heavy and powerful (130 watts x front channels but only 20 watts for the rears) a pro-logic AVR that was basically a modified stereo receiver.

The Kenwood is neutral to BRIGHT IMO. I've run it on monster JBL home monitors and it doesn't quite do it for me.

The M-series is a MORE forgiving series than most speakers that will sound pretty good with MOST amps, Kenwood included...I'm sure I've run some M-30s on that amp at some point? Combined with a PSW505 that's not a bad little system and it's quite cost effective as an interrum solution which is what you seem to be looking for.

If you like midrange and decent transitions to highs the M-40s aren't bad at all. And the sub, while not the most musical in the world can be tweaked and toned down to work well with the Monitors--just don't overdrive it. That is the secret to getting 'music' from the 505.

BTW WELCOME TO CLUB POLK!

cnh

TECHNOKID

Cnh, how about the HK 3490, are they still on sale? I don't recall Jim mentioning a budget amount, let's check that OP again....


NOPE; no specific mention of $$$... I don't know if you read my pm yet Jim but depending on your budget if the deal I led you to is at all possible and then if you are at all interested in the HK stereo amp I just mentioned? ...and yes, WELCOME TO CP If you can tolerate our behavior at times you are in the rifht place to discuss the hobby. There are some nastily knowledged people here and I humbly consider my self as a newbie at times with these guys.

Cheers!
TK

JimAckley

attempting to answer your questions in order.

My Kenwood has always been my preamp. The Crown was the XS900... not anything superb, but it drove the 25s without an issue. I originally bought it to drive a pair of JBL W15GTi's in my home while my Yukon was receiving extensive modifications.

I would say I fall more into the edgier highs category. Maybe that's why the LSi's didn't vibe with me. Don't get me wrong, I liked the sound I got from them, but I like a little more sizzle from my tweeters.

I like the sound my Kenwood as an amplifier gives. It's not insane on the highs (my Yamaha receiver, on the other hand, is a little overbearing on them), and it delivers a meaty punch, especially through the JBL E50s.

As far as my reason for deciding on the M40s, I remember going into a sound room at a Circuit City once, and listening to them. Now I'm a firm believer that if you can find ANYTHING that sounds even half decent in those rooms, you're onto something. They sounded GREAT and you can't go wrong with the price you can get them for now, which I think is like $150ish/pr brand new. The only reason I was considering the 70s was just for the sake of beefing it up a bit, but after lots of debates with myself as I pace around aimlessly at work, it's making more sense to just grab the 40s for now, especially since I'm considering a dual sub setup. And the overdrive thing, I definitely understand that, hence two subs. I like a system that I can crank up and up and up and have the bass keep up with the highs, which always seems to be a problem with most systems. That's why I put two JBL W15GTi's on two JL Audio 1000/1s in the back of my Yukon. I haven't overdriven them a day in my life because I've got more than enough headroom.

On a final note, I'll look into some of the RTi's. Again, I don't want overbearing highs. I like something in the middle, and if anything a hair toward edgier, because I can always adjust that in my receiver.

____________

edit: I'm going to check my PMs in a few seconds. I'm getting ready for a crazy thursday night out

TECHNOKID

I guess your motto is the more bass the merrier :cool: Have you checked the speakers I led you to?

Cheers!
TK

JimAckley

Not necessarily the more the merrier. I'm not one of the guys toting 4 18s and 20kw. But I absolutely hate it when you crank up a system and the sub poops out way before the mids/highs do. I saw the post and that system looks good, but after lots of thinking the bookshelves are going to be a better fit for me. I already have too much crap in my room as is, haha

organ

Are you only looking for hard hitting bass? OR hard hitting sound?(including bass) The Klipsch sound may be for you if you find the LSi's too polite.

Why don't you get the 25's fixed? You already have the built in subs on those PLUS the PSW1000! That's a lot of bass. Play around with placement some more to make them hit harder.

cnh

I agree my experience at the former CC also led me to buy a set of M-series speakers. They were the best speaker in there. Don't get me wrong. I like my Monitors and they put out some decent bass (M-70s) but a dual PSW505 with M-40s will, indeed, give you more bass and probably sound just fine with your existing Kenwood too.

My Kenwood can easily drive a 4 ohm load in 2 channel to ear-bleeding levels. It's a bit less than 40 lbs? 20 years old and still in decent shape. I only use it when I need an extra amp/receiver.

If you can hear some Rti bookshelves--get your ears on the Rti-6 or the newer Rti-A3s (probably best to find the older model--cheaper for you). These tweeters sparkle and are not as bright as most of the Rti towers for reasons not known by me (excempting the flagship tower--Rti-A9s).

So yeah, either the M40s or Rti-6s with two 505s and the Kenwood. Sure...that would do ya!

cnh

JimAckley

Do you think I should say to heck with it and make room for 70s and 2 505s? Or do you think the 40s will do just fine?

edit: Are the RTi6's that much better than the Monitor 40s?

TECHNOKID

JimAckley wrote: »

Not necessarily the more the merrier. I'm not one of the guys toting 4 18s and 20kw. But I absolutely hate it when you crank up a system and the sub poops out way before the mids/highs do. I saw the post and that system looks good, but after lots of thinking the bookshelves are going to be a better fit for me. I already have too much crap in my room as is, haha

Understand, that system is a bggy if room is lacking


How about those? Not as powerfull as the M40 but close;

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/recent/r15/
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101848

JimAckley

Those were already sold, otherwise I'd have definitely bought those as a nice second set of speakers. The debate now is Monitor 40s or RTi 6's

cnh

JimAckley wrote: »

Do you think I should say to heck with it and make room for 70s and 2 505s? Or do you think the 40s will do just fine?

edit: Are the RTi6's that much better than the Monitor 40s?

They have a bit more detail than the M-40s you'd really need to listen to them to decide if that's worth it or not!

As for the M-40s vs M-70s...I really like my M-70s there. If it were me...honestly, I'd think about the M-70s if you can make the room. At the prices these things are selling for on newegg.com it's pretty easy to say YES to them? But you still need a sub.

cnh

JimAckley

p.s. Organ, the 25s aren't broken, they're just 950 miles away :P And I did like Klipsch, but there's just something about Polk that rides on the same wavelength as me