Upgraded TT to Technics SL1200 mkII

Erik Tracy
Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
edited June 2010 in 2 Channel Audio
I'm getting a Technics SL1200 mkII TT to upgrade my current rig.

Any suggestions or tips on setup?

Any recommended cartridges - I'm looking to drop about $200-300 on a new cartridge.

Thanks!

H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,243
    edited May 2010
    Denon DL160 all day long.. Can be had for about $170

    Congrats, and enjoy..

    Edit: How about $150..

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Denon-DL-160-High-Output-MC-Phono-cartridge-DL160-/190398863842?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c54a819e2



    .
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,243
    edited May 2010
    I offered him $139 and he accepted.. That is a killer deal for a New DL-160
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  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited May 2010
    That's a great deal indeed. I paid $180 on Amazon.
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited May 2010
    Erik Tracy wrote: »
    I'm getting a Technics SL1200 mkII TT to upgrade my current rig.

    Any suggestions or tips on setup?

    Any recommended cartridges - I'm looking to drop about $200-300 on a new cartridge.

    Thanks!

    For another hundred give or take, you could get yourself into a Dynavector 10 x 5. They are now going new for over $400 but I think you can do much better and haggle your way down with the internet stores. It is a high output MC cartridge and sounds just awesome after breakin.

    http://www.ttvjaudio.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=38_41&products_id=106

    http://www.musicdirect.com/product/73379

    http://www.questforsound.com/analog.htm

    http://www.needledoctor.com/Dynavector-10X5-Cartridge?sc=2&category=370

    Erik there are many more. The are all listed at this year's price of $430 If you call them and haggle you can get them down to last years price of $380 or lower.

    Call Quest for Sound. The owners name is Stephen Monte tell him you know me and are a member of the Polk Forum and he will get you that discount. The 10 x5 is a very fine cartridge, very revealing and tracks like you wouldn't believe.

    PM sent.
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited May 2010
    I am running a DL160 and love it.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • Dawgfish
    Dawgfish Posts: 2,554
    edited May 2010
    All are great suggestions. I've ran the DL-160 on my 1200 Mk2 (and still do as back-up) and it sounds great! The Dynovector 10 X5 is another great choice. I am now running the big brother to the 10X5, the DV20XH and it sounds awesome! I found it on the Gon with an upgraded cantiliever and stylus for not much more over your price range. It is spectacular! Another cartridge to look at are the wood bodied Grado Platinums and Sonatas. What kind of sound are you looking for? What are you using as a phono pre?

    For your price range, I would probably recommend getting the DL-160, which would give you enough cash leftover to get you a ClearaudioTwister Clamp, or the new KAB USA 1200 clamp and a Herbies Way Excellent turntable mat. This combo will give you outstanding performance for a relatively low amount of coin (compared to other TT setups). The 1200 is an outstanding and is underrated as a mid to high fi turntable. I know some are screaming blaphemy on this, but it really can be made into one helluva table for a relatively low amount of cash. You're making a good choice.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited May 2010
    Dawgfish wrote: »
    All are great suggestions. I've ran the DL-160 on my 1200 Mk2 (and still do as back-up) and it sounds great! The Dynovector 10 X5 is another great choice. I am now running the big brother to the 10X5, the DV20XH and it sounds awesome! I found it on the Gon with an upgraded cantiliever and stylus for not much more over your price range. It is spectacular! Another cartridge to look at are the wood bodied Grado Platinums and Sonatas. What kind of sound are you looking for? What are you using as a phono pre?

    For your price range, I would probably recommend getting the DL-160, which would give you enough cash leftover to get you a ClearaudioTwister Clamp, or the new KAB USA 1200 clamp and a Herbies Way Excellent turntable mat. This combo will give you outstanding performance for a relatively low amount of coin (compared to other TT setups). The 1200 is an outstanding and is underrated as a mid to high fi turntable. I know some are screaming blaphemy on this, but it really can be made into one helluva table for a relatively low amount of cash. You're making a good choice.

    Great post Steve!
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  • pbinpb57
    pbinpb57 Posts: 19
    edited May 2010
    You should consider installing a KAB fluid damper.
    Polk Audio~Cambridge Audio~ProJect~Emotiva~Grant Fidelity~a/d/s/~Yaqin~Parasound~Denon~Onkyo~Technics~Pioneer~Elac/Miracord~Musical Fidelity
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  • Dawgfish
    Dawgfish Posts: 2,554
    edited May 2010
    pbinpb57 wrote: »
    You should consider installing a KAB fluid damper.

    +1 on this. I've installed this on my 1200 with good results. KAB makes all kind of great upgrades and parts for the 1200. I highly recommend checking them out; www.kabusa.com

    Thanks for the kind words Joe! Hope all is well!
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited May 2010
    Thanks for the tips and advice, guys.

    Once I get the TT, I'll be sure to follow up w/ more questions, I'm sure. :p

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,321
    edited May 2010
    Dynavector or the Denon .. Both are great cart's for the $. I think you will not be sorry either way you go.

    I do agree though on getting a clamp. I have not changed my matt but I am thinking about getting a herbies myself.



    Not much more I can suggest that has not been suggested. For a new turntable, $ for $, you cannot beat the 1200.
    Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited May 2010
    Any suggestions for a MM cartridge?

    Both the Denon and Dynavector are MC and my A5 Integrated Amp won't accept those.

    So, I would need to drop more coin to get a decent external phono pre.

    I had to scrape thru the couch cushions to get the 1200 TT so I've got a strict budget of $200-$300 for 'all the other stuff' to get up to spinning the vinyl.

    What about Grado Silver or Gold MM?

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • TSheaZ28
    TSheaZ28 Posts: 31
    edited May 2010
    I have this
    http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&Product_Code=AT7V&Category_Code=A3
    I really enjoy this cart on my Rega P2. My P2 originally came with a Dynavector 10x4 from the previous owner, and I didn't care for the sound with the music I listen to (Heavy rock, metal, and classic rock). Part of that could be is that I do not have a pre-amp for MC cart, so I couldn't get a full review of the 10x4. Might be worth looking into for you depending on what musical tastes you have.
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  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,321
    edited May 2010
    The high output of the Denon you do NOT need a MC preamp for it. It is a high output MC that will work on any normal MM preamp.
    Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited May 2010
    erniejade wrote: »
    The high output of the Denon you do NOT need a MC preamp for it. It is a high output MC that will work on any normal MM preamp.

    Oh...did not know that - very cool! I learned something new today! :D

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,321
    edited May 2010
    The volume will be a little bit lower meaning you have to turn your volume up on the preamp but, I had it running through my Adcom 565 without a pre for a long time till I went with a tube pre... ( 1000000000 % recommend LOL )
    Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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  • pbinpb57
    pbinpb57 Posts: 19
    edited May 2010
    TSheaZ28 wrote: »
    I have this
    http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&Product_Code=AT7V&Category_Code=A3
    I really enjoy this cart on my Rega P2. My P2 originally came with a Dynavector 10x4 from the previous owner, and I didn't care for the sound with the music I listen to (Heavy rock, metal, and classic rock). Part of that could be is that I do not have a pre-amp for MC cart, so I couldn't get a full review of the 10x4. Might be worth looking into for you depending on what musical tastes you have.

    The AT7V is an excellent cartridge and a good match for the SL-1200. Not as forward as a DL-110 / DL-160. Smooth and articulate. You would also stay well within your budget and be able to afford mods or a phono pre.
    Polk Audio~Cambridge Audio~ProJect~Emotiva~Grant Fidelity~a/d/s/~Yaqin~Parasound~Denon~Onkyo~Technics~Pioneer~Elac/Miracord~Musical Fidelity
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited May 2010
    Erik Tracy wrote: »
    Any suggestions for a MM cartridge?

    Both the Denon and Dynavector are MC and my A5 Integrated Amp won't accept those.
    So, I would need to drop more coin to get a decent external phono pre.

    I had to scrape thru the couch cushions to get the 1200 TT so I've got a strict budget of $200-$300 for 'all the other stuff' to get up to spinning the vinyl.

    What about Grado Silver or Gold MM?

    Yeah it will! The Dynavector is 2.5 to 5mV output. That is pretty high and on a par with most MM carts. The only issue would be it needs 1k ohm loading.

    EDIT: Never mind I just read further down and saw the strict budget.

    The Denon as far as I know is also compatible with MM phono stages it's output is something like 1.6 mV and is well within your price range.
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,243
    edited May 2010
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    .

    The Denon as far as I know is also compatible with MM phono stages it's output is something like 1.6 mV and is well within your price range.

    It is, I can switch mine to MM or MC..
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited May 2010
    Thanks guys - I'm gonna look for a good deal on the DL-160 and go with that to start.

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,243
    edited May 2010
    Offer the guy $139 on the eBay link he has one left as I got one for back up just cause the price was right. I have never seen them that cheap.
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited May 2010
    TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »
    Offer the guy $139 on the eBay link he has one left as I got one for back up just cause the price was right. I have never seen them that cheap.


    Did and got it! :)

    Once all the bits show up, I'll have to figure out how to mount the cart and do all that fine tuning and alignment stuff for overhang, etc.

    The TT is coming with *all* accessories - I am hoping that includes the mkII overhang tool.

    I've heard that is the easiest to use and gets you dialed in.

    I still have my ancient Shure stylus gauge - was going to use that to set the tracking force.

    Any other alignment gadgets I should get - like protractors?

    Thanks!

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • pbinpb57
    pbinpb57 Posts: 19
    edited May 2010
    Very Cool! A stylus gauge (or a jewelry scale), a Technics overhang gauge and a small level are all that you need to properly "dial in" your cartridge. Oh...plus your ears!
    Here is a good primer, it covers all the bases.
    http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/ttadjust.html#LEV

    Cheers
    Polk Audio~Cambridge Audio~ProJect~Emotiva~Grant Fidelity~a/d/s/~Yaqin~Parasound~Denon~Onkyo~Technics~Pioneer~Elac/Miracord~Musical Fidelity
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited June 2010
    Got my DL-160.

    And the 1200 MKII showed up yesterday - double boxed. The TT is 'new' - never assembled before, all the pieces taped and bagged in place.

    I kept looking for the stylus overhang 'tool' - expecting to see a protractor to fit to the spindle. Instead its a plastic holder for the headshell with a plastic 'tongue' to adjust the stylus tip to barely reach. Interesting....

    I'll be assembling it all over the next day or two - dang overtime at my job permitting...

    Still gotta get me a poor man's version of a record cleaning machine. All I have now is the old handheld Discwasher system.

    The 1200 is built like a tank! Hefty bugger!

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited June 2010
    Keiko wrote: »
    You're gonna love that combo, Erik. I got an itch to try a Dynavector 10x5 on my 1210 now, but had to put it on hold.

    I recommend you invest in a Herbie's Way Excellent TT Mat and a Clear Audio Twister Clamp to get the best out of your table. A good RCM is a must also. Enjoy!

    ;)

    I have an old AudioQuest TT mat on my current TT - was planning on using that to start, but I'll look into the TT Clamp.

    Thanks.

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited June 2010
    Glad to hear your TT rig is coming together Erik. ^^^^if you do get the above clamp, let me know.
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited June 2010
    Ok so.... I'm assembling the DL-160 into the headshell.

    Should I use the balancing plate included with the Technics headshell to balance out the DL-160?

    Should I use the balancing plate include with the DL-160?

    The spec sheet for the DL-160 says to set the tracking force at 1.6 grams. Is that optimum for what other folks have set?

    The Technics manual says to set the anti-skating to be the same as the tracking force. Is that what other folks have set?

    Thanks! One step closer to spinning the vinyl!

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited June 2010
    Erik Tracy wrote: »
    Ok so.... I'm assembling the DL-160 into the headshell.

    Should I use the balancing plate included with the Technics headshell to balance out the DL-160?

    Should I use the balancing plate include with the DL-160?

    The spec sheet for the DL-160 says to set the tracking force at 1.6 grams. Is that optimum for what other folks have set?

    The Technics manual says to set the anti-skating to be the same as the tracking force. Is that what other folks have set?

    Thanks! One step closer to spinning the vinyl!

    Erik, IMHO and experience, the tracking force number as well as the anti-skating force are just guidelines. Once you set it to the recommended weights and settings you should use your ear to add or back off the weight 1/4 gm at a time to see what produces the best SQ. I found my cartridge/tonearm combo sounds best with the tracking weight at an eek less then 1/2 gram over the recommended downforce . . . the same with the anti-skating. Keep in mind I have a completely different table/cartridge/tonearm combo but I have found this to be true on all turntables.

    Don't worry about the extra weight (if that's what you find sounds best) causing extra wear on your records. AS long as you have the cartridge/tonearm setup correcting there will be no distortion or improper tracking thus no additional record wear.

    Joe
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited June 2010
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    Erik, IMHO and experience, the tracking force number as well as the anti-skating force are just guidelines. Once you set it to the recommended weights and settings you should use your ear to add or back off the weight 1/4 gm at a time to see what produces the best SQ. I found my cartridge/tonearm combo sounds best with the tracking weight at an eek less then 1/2 gram over the recommended downforce . . . the same with the anti-skating. Keep in mind I have a completely different table/cartridge/tonearm combo but I have found this to be true on all turntables.

    Don't worry about the extra weight (if that's what you find sounds best) causing extra wear on your records. AS long as you have the cartridge/tonearm setup correctly there will be no distortion or improper tracking thus no additional record wear.

    Joe

    Fixed
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited June 2010
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    Fixed

    Thanks for the tips!

    I was reading the instructions for both the TT and the cartridge - both say that the balancing plate should be used if the cartridge is 'light'. The one with the Technics is a thick little sucker, the one that came with the DL-160 is much thinner and lighter.

    Was wanting to know if there was a consensus if the DL-160 is considered 'light'.

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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