Pick a tube preamp

heiney9

Manley Shrimp

Belles 21A w/Auricaps

BAT Vk-3i

Discuss. These are the 3 I've narrowed it down to and it maybe awhile before I pull the trigger with the right used deal. I thought I'd see if we could get some discussions going.

I like the Manley not only for the stellar reviews it gets, but I have a lot of $$$ invested in 12AT7 tubes so this a plus for tube rolling. Only minus is no remote and the Jumbo Shrimp, which has remote, is out of the budget.

Belles gets great reviews by Polkies and it uses one of my favorite caps the Auricap.

BAT looks killer on paper and is designed much how I like my gear. Simple, straight forward, no negative feedback and few gain stages. Plus I already have a stash of old gray glass 50's black plate RCA 6V6's to roll into it.

Plus, Nelson has stated his utmost respect for Victor and Vlad at BAT.

There's a Manley Shrimp on Audiogon right now for $1100 and I just missed a BAT VK-3i for $1075 and there is a Belles 21A on Audiogon w/o Auricaps.

Decisions.......decisions........

Oh yeah, I also have to add my rig has never sounded better so why mess with that :D:)

H9

cstmar01

That belles that is up there is for sale by Toolfan out of Littleton, CO. isn't our Toolfanforlife out of there too? Could be the same person???

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101349

Ricardo

Never heard those specific units.

-I own the VK-5i and I am very happy with it. BAT's reputation is definitely very good.
-I owned the Belles 28A and it was almost tube like. I wonder what Dave Belles can do when actually using tubes.
-Manley, well as BAT its reputation is great.

I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.

Ricardo

cstmar01 wrote: »

That belles that is up there is for sale by Toolfan out of Littleton, CO. isn't our Toolfanforlife out of there too? Could be the same person???

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101349

Didn't last much. I guess he didn't like it.

george daniel

Having heard all and owned 2 of the three,,I'm gonna have to stay with the Belles,,the Manley just did not do it for me,,the BAT was a tad too sterile ,,the Belles while typically dark,responds well to tube rolling,both new production and NOS.Just my .02 worth,YMMV--good luck in your search.

Edit-- like Ricardo says--ain't none of them bad.

Toolfan66

It's not that I didn't like it something came up and I had to make a choice between the 2 tube pre's I have. But I got it taken care of and I don't need to sell it right now. So it will be coming down, and will still look at doing the upgrade.

george daniel

good to hear.

madmax

So far I've been extremely impressed with Manley preamps although I have not heard the Shrimp. The 300B preamp, which you would almost assume would be somewhat noisy due to the tube is dead quiet and passes the signal without any significant signature other than the fact that 300B tubes have their own signature. Their phono pre is dead quiet other than the noise that MUST be there when turned up due to the extremely high gain. Now on to their amplifiers. Horns do not like high power amps or anything over about 15 watts due to their noise. The Manley 200wpc amps are quiet enough to please the horns. Do you see a trend here? Quietness equals really high end design. The tones are to die for with all of their equipment I've had.
madmax

Jetmaker737

Why not the Rogue 99 Magnum?... just wonderin'!

doctor r

Keep your eye out for a VAC Standard LE or similar VAC pre. Amazing sound, excellent company support, absolutely worth a look.

headrott

Brock,

Which system will this be going in? I have heard the Belles (non-auricap) and own the BAT VK-3i. Looked at the Manley Shrimp, but it didn't seem to do it for me as far as design goes, personally. Never heard it though. I can recommend the BAT, and the non-auricapped Belles sounded good, but it was not in my system so it's hard to get a really good idea about it but I think I prefer the BAT over the Belles a little bit. As I said though, hard to do a "fair" comparison. The BAT responds relatively well to tube rolling, but not as well as the Belles. If you have those RCA 6V6's and some Siemens E88CC tubes, I think you will be happy with the BAT. It sounds pretty darn good, and has massive amounts of detail. Maybe a tad light on the "warm tube sound" but does put out some good tones with the Siemens CCA/E88CC tubes. I think you may like it.

Greg

tonyb

Can't go wrong with any of your choices, just a matter of which one pops first.

george daniel

I think the Aelph and Belles would sound sweet--but like others stated,,all are good,,just a matter of synergy--good luck.

heiney9

Yeah, it's going to be a tough choice since I can't really hear them in my system before hand. I fear the BAT might be a tad too analytical which isn;t a bad thing because I don't want a real over the top tubey sound.

The Manley appeals to me because of all the high quality parts and it seems to be built well, maybe not as well as the BAT. Plus, I have all these 12AT7's and I'm very familiar with their strengths and weaknesses already.

The Belles comes recommended by you and others and I respect your choices.

The question is...............and I am being totally serious.............will these be worth the extra money over the Dared. This little Dared continues to impress the hell out of me with the right tubes. I'm sure all 3 of these will do things a bit better than the Dared but will it be $1K worth of difference.

I guess I won't know until I try one of them.

H9

P.s. I'm looking for the kind of differences I heard when I went from the Adcom to the Aleph. Not sure I will get that kind of musical revelation.

tonyb

ahhh...that old law of "diminishing returns", only one way to find out Brock. Let us know what you snagg but you know,once you snagg it,something else in the chain may need an upgrade....and the cycle continues...

HB27

I had the Manley for a week and loved it. I ended up getting talked out of it. BIG MISTAKE.
I just auditioned the Bat 3 i X at Ovation here in Indy a couple of weeks ago. I took over two hours listening on it. Matched with the VK-55 amp on Naim Ovator speakers. Speakers only had about 50 hours on them.
The 3 i X is a nice sounding and well built piece of gear.
I haven't heard the Belles. Never laid eyes on one or seen a pic.
IMHO, the Manley kicks arse over the 3 i X.
Both units had enough hours on them to give a clear idea of what they were.. Both units had stock tubes also. Rolling would surely give them more of a personal taste.
Harry

HB27

I'll gladly send you the literature on the BAT and Naim IF you want them.
Local prices are hand written on the BAT and Naim gear.
I decided against them. I"m sure you can get all this info on line but it's offered IF you want it.
I'll stick with the Mark Levinson 28 and Custom McAlister preamps for now
Harry

dpowell

heiney9 wrote: »

Yeah, it's going to be a tough choice since I can't really hear them in my system before hand.

I guess I won't know until I try one of them.

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one that feels this way when buying a piece of gear.

drselect

H9 what are you going to do with your Dared? If you decided you want to sale it I might be interested.

george daniel

heiney9 wrote: »

Yeah, it's going to be a tough choice since I can't really hear them in my system before hand. I fear the BAT might be a tad too analytical which isn;t a bad thing because I don't want a real over the top tubey sound.

The Manley appeals to me because of all the high quality parts and it seems to be built well, maybe not as well as the BAT. Plus, I have all these 12AT7's and I'm very familiar with their strengths and weaknesses already.

The Belles comes recommended by you and others and I respect your choices.

The question is...............and I am being totally serious.............will these be worth the extra money over the Dared. This little Dared continues to impress the hell out of me with the right tubes. I'm sure all 3 of these will do things a bit better than the Dared but will it be $1K worth of difference.

I guess I won't know until I try one of them.

H9

P.s. I'm looking for the kind of differences I heard when I went from the Adcom to the Aleph. Not sure I will get that kind of musical revelation.

I'm gonna take a stab and say NO,,I don't think that you're gonna get a thousand dollar difference/satisfaction over the Dared,,if you've got synergy now,,I'd definately wait until you can audition these in your home before purchase,,I can't believe I said that:rolleyes:

drselect

george daniel wrote: »

I'm gonna take a stab and say NO,,I don't think that you're gonna get a thousand dollar difference/satisfaction over the Dared,,if you've got synergy now,,I'd definately wait until you can audition these in your home before purchase,,I can't believe I said that:rolleyes:

George your not helping.:eek: Now I am even more interested in the Dared.:D

Face

How about hot rodding the Dared?

F1nut

Brock, having some idea of the sound you like, the Manley isn't for you.

heiney9

Face wrote: »

How about hot rodding the Dared?

Not saying it's the absolute best pre-amp but, it does use Dale resistors in key spots, Auricaps in key places and Nichicon PS caps. I'm sure if someone with some knowledge could look at a schematic they could make some suggestions. But just replacing key parts probably won't get me much more. Since it's in a "mini" chassis it's not that easy to work on w/o having to do a complete disassemble.

F1nut wrote: »

Brock, having some idea of the sound you like, the Manley isn't for you.

Even though the Manley uses the same 12AT7's I already own. I wouldn;t be opposed to a bit more tubey sound as long as it doesn't go over board. I do worry about ruining the fantastic synergy I have now though.

People who know me know I don;t make knee jerk decisions unless I find a deal I just can't pass up so I'll be doing some more research

Thanls for all the replys so far and keep them coming.

H9

heiney9

drselect wrote: »

George your not helping.:eek: Now I am even more interested in the Dared.:D

I will say even though I have limited tube pre experience it's an amazing little pre-amp. The absolute key is tube rolling and the rectifier really makes a difference in the Dared.

If this type of pre appeals to you get off the fence and buy one and then start hunting so NOS tubes for it. If you get one I can make some suggestions.

H9

Face

heiney9 wrote: »

Not saying it's the absolute best pre-amp but, it does use Dale resistors in key spots, Auricaps in key places and Nichicon PS caps.

Audio Note Tantilum, Sonic Cap Plats, and Jensen.

Is there room for a stepped attenuator?

heiney9

Face wrote: »

Audio Note Tantilum, Sonic Cap Plats, and Jensen.

Is there room for a stepped attenuator?

It has a sealed motorized Alps pot now. I'd have to look again as it's very tight in there. That's the one downside to this pre is the mini-chassis.

If the above suggested caps were the right size maybe..........Sonicaps would fit for sure, not sure how much of an upgrade vs. just a slightly different sound there would be. The PS caps are tricky because they are wrapped in shrink wrap, horizontal on the board and zip tied. Not much space at all for anything physically larger. The resistors should be no problem usless they are physically larger.

I will certainly keep this in mind. Can you get a stepped attenuator that is motorized for remote control operation?

Face

A motorized stepped attenuator, I doubt it would fit.

And I wouldn't bother swapping out Auricaps for Sonic Caps Gen I's. The Plats sound MUCH better than either one of those.

Resistors will be about the same size.

As far as PS caps, Jensen's sizes are all over. Some are smaller, some are the same size, and some are considerably larger than the cheapos I've replaced. Mundorf also makes nice lytics.