Moving up the Pass Labs food chain

2»

Comments

  • Ern Dog
    Ern Dog Posts: 2,237
    edited May 2010
    The tweaking continues.... I switched out the PNF Icon IC's (copper) and replaced them with some silver ones- DH Labs Air Matrix. These seemed to help tone down the warmth. I also plugged the two Pangea power cords back in. The soundstage is off the charts and there is soo much UMPH behind everything!!! This amp is so seductive that I can't stop listening. :D
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Ern Dog
    Ern Dog Posts: 2,237
    edited May 2010
    It has been a week of listening to the X150.5, so today I popped the X150 back in to hear the differences. Here is what I found:

    The X150 is as neutral as it gets- totally flat from top to bottom.

    The X150.5 is warm sounding and there is a slight increase in the mid and lower bass. It reminds me of the Rogue Audio Stereo 90 tube amp I had. The bass is tighter than the Rogue was. The Pass also has lots of detail in the bass too which I really like. The X150.5 digs lower and is smoother all the way around.

    The X150 sounds lean compared to the X150.5. The X150.5 sounds more robust and bloomy- it adds more weight to the music.

    The downside to the X150.5 is that there is such an emphasis in the bass region that it doesn't sound as balanced as the X150 does. There is also a lower bass haze- not sure how to describe it, but switching to different IC's helped with this. Lastly, it is so smooth that some of the detail is gone- it's a trade off I guess.

    Both have their strengths and it boils down to what your preference is in presentation. I decided to keep the X150.5 :D
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited May 2010
    Ern Dog wrote: »
    The tweaking continues.... I switched out the PNF Icon IC's (copper) and replaced them with some silver ones- DH Labs Air Matrix. These seemed to help tone down the warmth. I also plugged the two Pangea power cords back in. The soundstage is off the charts and there is soo much UMPH behind everything!!! This amp is so seductive that I can't stop listening. :D

    Pass amps tend to be that way :D:p. I LOVE my Aleph!
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,068
    edited May 2010
    Ern Dog wrote: »
    It has been a week of listening to the X150.5, so today I popped the X150 back in to hear the differences. Here is what I found:

    The X150 is as neutral as it gets- totally flat from top to bottom.

    The X150.5 is warm sounding and there is a slight increase in the mid and lower bass. It reminds me of the Rogue Audio Stereo 90 tube amp I had. The bass is tighter than the Rogue was. The Pass also has lots of detail in the bass too which I really like. The X150.5 digs lower and is smoother all the way around.

    The X150 sounds lean compared to the X150.5. The X150.5 sounds more robust and bloomy- it adds more weight to the music.

    The downside to the X150.5 is that there is such an emphasis in the bass region that it doesn't sound as balanced as the X150 does. There is also a lower bass haze- not sure how to describe it, but switching to different IC's helped with this. Lastly, it is so smooth that some of the detail is gone- it's a trade off I guess.

    Both have their strengths and it boils down to what your preference is in presentation. I decided to keep the X150.5 :D

    It sounds to me like you couldn't make a bad choice between either of them. PASS makes great gear for sure! Enjoy your new X150.5.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited May 2010
    Ern Dog wrote: »
    It has been a week of listening to the X150.5, so today I popped the X150 back in to hear the differences. Here is what I found:

    The X150 is as neutral as it gets- totally flat from top to bottom.

    The X150.5 is warm sounding and there is a slight increase in the mid and lower bass. It reminds me of the Rogue Audio Stereo 90 tube amp I had. The bass is tighter than the Rogue was. The Pass also has lots of detail in the bass too which I really like. The X150.5 digs lower and is smoother all the way around.

    The X150 sounds lean compared to the X150.5. The X150.5 sounds more robust and bloomy- it adds more weight to the music.

    The downside to the X150.5 is that there is such an emphasis in the bass region that it doesn't sound as balanced as the X150 does. There is also a lower bass haze- not sure how to describe it, but switching to different IC's helped with this. Lastly, it is so smooth that some of the detail is gone- it's a trade off I guess.

    Both have their strengths and it boils down to what your preference is in presentation. I decided to keep the X150.5 :D


    Thanks for posting your impressions. I think I would take "flat" and "Detailed". The good news is that now I don't have the urge to go find a X250.5 to compare with mine.
    _________________________________________________
    ***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***

    2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
    SOPA
    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cincycat13
    cincycat13 Posts: 882
    edited May 2010
    Ricardo wrote: »
    Thanks for posting your impressions. I think I would take "flat" and "Detailed". The good news is that now I don't have the urge to go find a X250.5 to compare with mine.

    oh man, and I had my fingers crossed for the Ricardo "Pass Karma" ... back to counting pennys...
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Ern Dog
    Ern Dog Posts: 2,237
    edited May 2010
    Ricardo wrote: »
    Thanks for posting your impressions. I think I would take "flat" and "Detailed". The good news is that now I don't have the urge to go find a X250.5 to compare with mine.

    I know what you mean- you can't go wrong with flat and detailed. I wish I could keep both.

    It looks like I just saved you $4500 :D
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,420
    edited May 2010
    Ern Dog wrote: »
    I know what you mean- you can't go wrong with flat and detailed. I wish I could keep both.

    It looks like I just saved you $4500 :D


    why not run both... one amp on the highs and the other for the low end.:cool:
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Ern Dog
    Ern Dog Posts: 2,237
    edited May 2010
    Great idea!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Ern Dog
    Ern Dog Posts: 2,237
    edited May 2010
    Ok, I've got the X150.5 connected to the highs and the X150 to the lows :D

    These are 4 ohm speakers, so that's 600 watts of Pass Labs love for each speaker :eek:

    How does it sound? Well, they definitely sound more balanced. It's the best qualities of both amps. The bass hump has flattened out. I think I could really like this... Only down side is that I only have one pair of nice speaker cables, so I had to use some cheap stuff for the lows. So, I'm not getting the full potential of this set up. I think I'll keep it set up this way until the X150 sells.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited May 2010
    Nice! overkill? nah.... :)
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,420
    edited May 2010
    Ern Dog wrote: »
    Ok, I've got the X150.5 connected to the highs and the X150 to the lows :D

    These are 4 ohm speakers, so that's 600 watts of Pass Labs love for each speaker :eek:

    How does it sound? Well, they definitely sound more balanced. It's the best qualities of both amps. The bass hump has flattened out. I think I could really like this... Only down side is that I only have one pair of nice speaker cables, so I had to use some cheap stuff for the lows. So, I'm not getting the full potential of this set up. I think I'll keep it set up this way until the X150 sells.

    Don't sell the other one unless you need to. You will regret it someday. Just get another set of cables and call it a day... Enjoy the music!:)
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Ern Dog
    Ern Dog Posts: 2,237
    edited May 2010
    Update: This is interesting... after treating all my connections with Deoxit, the over-emphasis in the bass region has been resolved! It is more detailed now too. This was a complete surprise that it would balance out the sound of my rig. As a result, it sounded too bright with the silver DH Labs IC's, so I switched it back to my favorite copper ones: PNF's. It's sounding pretty sweet now. I'm listening to the John Coltrane and Johnny Hartman CD right now and it sounds amazing....

    After further listening with the system bi-amped, the difference was so small that I had trouble hearing any difference compared to listening with just the X150.5 alone.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Echosphere
    Echosphere Posts: 395
    edited May 2010
    Ern Dog wrote: »
    The tweaking continues.... I switched out the PNF Icon IC's (copper) and replaced them with some silver ones- DH Labs Air Matrix. These seemed to help tone down the warmth. I also plugged the two Pangea power cords back in. The soundstage is off the charts and there is soo much UMPH behind everything!!! This amp is so seductive that I can't stop listening. :D

    Hey Dog,

    Just curious if the silver made it sound more tinny at all?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Ern Dog
    Ern Dog Posts: 2,237
    edited June 2010
    No I wouldn't say more tinny, but brighter.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited June 2010
    Echosphere wrote: »
    Hey Dog,

    Just curious if the silver made it sound more tinny at all?

    Silver in general tends to be emphasize the highs and can suck the bass out of the signal. It's very system dependent and if your system tends to be on the darker side sometimes silver cables can add a little "zing" to make it sound less dark. It's a synergy thing.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Echosphere
    Echosphere Posts: 395
    edited June 2010
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Silver in general tends to be emphasize the highs and can suck the bass out of the signal. It's very system dependent and if your system tends to be on the darker side sometimes silver cables can add a little "zing" to make it sound less dark. It's a synergy thing.

    H9

    You truly are a motivational speaker! :D

    Wow, hmm.... That makes me think about some IC's and speaker wire that are partially silver.. I have a Mark Levinson ML-9 amp that I've noticed, and other folks have said, sounds a bit dark. This might be a good match!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,967
    edited June 2010
    I use a combination of silver ic's and copper speaker cables,works for me.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Echosphere
    Echosphere Posts: 395
    edited June 2010
    tonyb wrote: »
    I use a combination of silver ic's and copper speaker cables,works for me.

    Tony,

    I was JUST thinking that or the opposite. :)

    Do you have some time to tell me what you have exactly?

    Cheers,
    Scott
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • lakesailor
    lakesailor Posts: 319
    edited June 2010
    Ern Dog wrote: »
    Well my whole rig has been configured around my old X150. To me the X150 sounds totally neutral, so I added the warm sounding Marantz Reference SACD player and two Pangea power cords to help warm things up so that it was a perfect balance. So, when I swapped out the X150 with the new X150.5 it sounded way toooo warm! I removed all the Pangea power cords and replaced them with the stock ones, which helped. I'll probably need to try some different cables/PC's and maybe a new neutral sounding SACD player:D to bring the rig back to balance again.

    Who knows, these are just some initial thoughts. It may be just fine as it is. It is such a contrast from the X150 that it will take my ears and brain more time to adjust to this new sound.

    I never tried an X150.5, however I did have an X150 and would agree that it was a very nuetral amp. I was always curious about the 150.5 so it is interesting reading about your experience with it. Glad to hear it is working out for you.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter