Interconnect question

vmaxer

cstmar01 wrote: »

what are you guys talking about, he just needs to use some coat hangers, they are so much better than Balanced cables which are just silly anyways...

jk, and would recommend if you are trying to bi amp getting an external crossover to do so, at least to me this would be the best for sound quality and allow you to control the top end and the low end and make sure your sending a different signal to the bass drivers and a different one to the tweeters.

I was going to go with the coat hanger method....then I noticed thay are now plastic:mad:

I have just started looking at external crossovers, any suggestions here??

heiney9

Why are you looking at active x-over's when you have Sonicaps and Mills in your SDA's already. Scratch the active x-over's, additional expense and not at all necessary. You are making things too complicated.

Buy some really nice RCA's or XLR's and be done with it.

I highly recommend MIT, but there are other really nice brands out there as well.

KISS.................Keep It Simple Stupid ;):)

heiney9

cstmar01 wrote: »

what are you guys talking about, he just needs to use some coat hangers, they are so much better than Balanced cables which are just silly anyways...

jk, and would recommend if you are trying to bi amp getting an external crossover to do so, at least to me this would be the best for sound quality and allow you to control the top end and the low end and make sure your sending a different signal to the bass drivers and a different one to the tweeters.

He's not really bi-amping. He is using the same amp just different channels of the amp which share the same internal architecture and power supply, etc. There is no need for an active x-over.

Geez people make things complicated.

If he had two completely different amps and he was truly trying to bi-amp, an active x-over *might* help, for his situation I disagree w/getting an active x-over.

I've given my opinion and now I'm outta here.

H9

vmaxer

heiney9 wrote: »

Why are you looking at active x-over's when you have Sonicaps and Mills in your SDA's already. Scratch the active x-over's, additional expense and not at all necessary. You are making things too complicated.

Buy some really nice RCA's or XLR's and be done with it.

I highly recommend MIT, but there are other really nice brands out there as well.

KISS.................Keep It Simple Stupid ;):)

The manual for the 1.2TL's shows how to use external crossovers and what the settings need to be to still enjoy the SDA effects...It sparked thoughts and away I went:o

Maybe I am getting carried away, but there does seem to be additional benefits for it?? Hell, it seems that I could possibly get one for the cost of the better Y cables??:rolleyes:

heiney9

vmaxer wrote: »

Hell, it seems that I could possibly get one for the cost of the better Y cables??:rolleyes:

Let that sink in for a second.............................................





















..................what does that say about the quality of the active x-over? Unless you are willing to spend some money on an active x-over then forget it. Just another signal degrading component in the chain.

vmaxer

heiney9 wrote: »

He's not really bi-amping. He is using the same amp just different channels of the amp which share the same internal architecture and power supply, etc. There is no need for an active x-over.

Geez people make things complicated.

If he had two completely different amps and he was truly trying to bi-amp, an active x-over *might* help, for his situation I disagree w/getting an active x-over.

I've given my opinion and now I'm outta here.

H9

H9,

I am sorry if I said something to irritate you. I don't want anyone to get upset. I truly appreciate all input and welcome it. Hopefully I can make the best decision because of it. I know there are many ways to bi-amp and I do have a couple more amps not listed (Parasound and Adcom), but I connected the Sunfire one of the ways the manual listed and have no complaints thus far. I may try another amp later to see how it works..

For now I was just trying to decide XLR or RCA connectors and the external crossover thing came up. Even if used it would have to have some overlapping of signals for the SDA effects to work according the Polk's manual on the 1.2TL's.

Thanks again and please continue to help.:)

vmaxer

heiney9 wrote: »

Let that sink in for a second.............................................





















..................what does that say about the quality of the active x-over? Unless you are willing to spend some money on an active x-over then forget it. Just another signal degrading component in the chain.

OK that makes sense, I am trying to learn. What is a good active crossover??

heiney9

vmaxer wrote: »

H9,

I am sorry if I said something to irritate you. I don't want anyone to get upset. I truly appreciate all input and welcome it. Hopefully I can make the best decision because of it. I know there are many ways to bi-amp and I do have a couple more amps not listed (Parasound and Adcom), but I connected the Sunfire one of the ways the manual listed and have no complaints thus far. I may try another amp later to see how it works..

For now I was just trying to decide XLR or RCA connectors and the external crossover thing came up. Even if used it would have to have some overlapping of signals for the SDA effects to work according the Polk's manual on the 1.2TL's.

Thanks again and please continue to help.:)

Nope, not irritated at all, just succinct in my responses and I have given my opinion at this point. Signal makes some really nice XLR's too. It's really not that tough of a decison. I have both types of Signal Cables; RCA and XLR and I heard no difference and they are the exact same cable just different connectors. Perhaps the RCA's were very slightly warmer. And I have truly balanced components except for the digital source, and at one point I had a balanced DAC when I was comparing.

I choose to use MIT RCA's because they sound a whole lot better than the Signal Cable RCA's and XLR's.

H9

P.s. you are going to give yourself an aneurism if you think too hard:eek::D

heiney9

vmaxer wrote: »

OK that makes sense, I am trying to learn. What is a good active crossover??

Probably one that you build yourself from a well known design that is tested, tried and true for you particular type of speaker. If I were to do it; that's what I'd look for. Guys like Ben and Face and others have built their own for their specific needs.

H9

FTGV

vmaxer wrote: »

I was going to go with the coat hanger method....then I noticed thay are now plastic:mad:

I have just started looking at external crossovers, any suggestions here??

I would suggest that you stick with the passive biamping idea.Simply cascading an active crossover with the internal passive crossover is frought with problems and chances are you'lll actually create some frequency response and or phase issues.To gain the maximum benifit of an active crossover one should remove the passive xover entirely Also accurate frequency response measurements would be a necessity as the active crossover needs to be configured specifically for the particular speaker it is used with if it is to offer any performance advantage.So it's not a simple task.l

heiney9 wrote: »

He's not really bi-amping.

Sure he is,it's called passive biamping as he is using a separate ch of amplification for each driver whilst retaining the passive xover.

heiney9

FTGV wrote: »

Sure he is,it's called passive biamping as he is using a separate ch of amplification for each driver whilst retaining the passive xover.

I meant in the traditional sense where one does use two different amps and in some cases an active external x-over

H9

FTGV

It's would still be biampng whether it's 4 mono blocs,2 stereo amps or 4 channels of a multi ch amp.

F1nut

FTGV wrote: »

It's would still be biampng whether it's 4 mono blocs,2 stereo amps or 4 channels of a multi ch amp.

Not really as all the channels share the same power supply. It's what's known as ghetto bi-amping.

FTGV

F1nut wrote: »

Not really as all the channels share the same power supply. It's what's known as ghetto bi-amping.

Not all multi ch amps share a common supply,some having five completely independant modules.Regardless by definition biamping is the use of a separate ch for each individual driver.



edit.I should add that IMO other than increasing power headroom passive biamping does not have the potential benifits of active biamping.

hearingimpared

heiney9 wrote: »

Nope, not irritated at all, just succinct in my responses and I have given my opinion at this point. Signal makes some really nice XLR's too. It's really not that tough of a decison. I have both types of Signal Cables; RCA and XLR and I heard no difference and they are the exact same cable just different connectors. Perhaps the RCA's were very slightly warmer. And I have truly balanced components except for the digital source, and at one point I had a balanced DAC when I was comparing.

I choose to use MIT RCA's because they sound a whole lot better than the Signal Cable RCA's and XLR's.

H9

P.s. you are going to give yourself an aneurism if you think too hard:eek::D

Ah you big grump!!!:D

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/jarmideo/Grumpy.jpg

[IMG][/img]

vmaxer

F1nut wrote: »

Not really as all the channels share the same power supply. It's what's known as ghetto bi-amping.

So does this mean there is no benefit from bi-amping this way?? It came straight out of the manual?? How is that different than the left and right speakers sharing an amp/power supply?? The amp is rated with all channels driven

Not being a smart-a$$, just trying to understand and learn;)

FTGV

vmaxer wrote: »

So does this mean there is no benefit from bi-amping this way?? It came straight out of the manual?? How is that different than the left and right speakers sharing an amp/power supply?? The amp is rated with all channels driven

IMO its the use of the passive xover that limits the benifits of biamping and not the fact that the amp uses a common power supply.As I mentioned in my previous post the only real advantage to passive biamping would be increased power headroom.However with the .400 watts/ch available from your Sunfire I don't see you needing any more headroom.The best bet would be to give it a try for yourself and see if there is any audible improvement.

F1nut

vmaxer wrote: »

So does this mean there is no benefit from bi-amping this way??

IMO, no.

It came straight out of the manual??

Well yeah, you can do it, but it isn't true bi-amping. You can do the same thing with any 5.1 AVR, but it isn't really bi-amping.

How is that different than the left and right speakers sharing an amp/power supply??

It's not really. That's why dual mono and/or mono blocks are better. In the case of bi-amping with two stereo amps you have one amp/one power supply driving the highs and one amp/power supply driving the lows. That is different than what you've got.

The amp is rated with all channels driven

You know, that's one thing about Carver/Sunfire amps that always gets me. They tend to have these high wpc ratings, yet don't sound that powerful. I think it is because they use a switching rail design. That is, when one channel requires more power it steals it from another channel. I think it results in diminished headroom and compromises the ability to handle transients cleanly.

heiney9

hearingimpared wrote: »

Ah you big grump!!!:D

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/jarmideo/Grumpy.jpg

[IMG][/img]

Joe, I admit perhaps today I was a big grump!! Tired of the weather in the Midwest.......everyone complaining at work and I haven't seen the sun in 3 days. . So call me Grumpy VonGrumpenstein

H9

hearingimpared

heiney9 wrote: »

Joe, I admit perhaps today I was a big grump!! Tired of the weather in the Midwest.......everyone complaining at work and I haven't seen the sun in 3 days. . So call me Grumpy VonGrumpenstein

H9

I hear ya Brock, things haven't been all the fun around here either.:(

george daniel

Innaresting thread fellas',, so what was the outcome?

The pic of the mean looking fellow leaning on the pick looks familar.

vmaxer

george daniel wrote: »

Innaresting thread fellas',, so what was the outcome?

The pic of the mean looking fellow leaning on the pick looks familar.

About the only outcome is it seems the more I learn the less I know:o:eek:

I am still researching the initial topic, but I am currently leaning toward sticking with XLR cables and maybe upgrading from the low cost monoprice ones I have now. They seem to be the weakest link as far as interconnects in my system at the moment.

I installed Pangea power cables last night, but that is another thread:cool:

heiney9

Cables matter whether they are XLR's or RCA's.

Monoprice is entry level at best. There are a lot of very nice sounding affordable cables to choose from and if you buy used you can save a lot. You won;t know until YOU try them yourself. Stick with a good brand like MIT and you'll loose very little value if you need to flip them because they aren't to your liking.

It's time to move out of the discussion and into the experimentation in your own rig with your own ears in your own listening space. No one can give you a singular answer about what cable is best because there is no singular answer.

Stop discussing and start listening :). It's the only way.

H9

vmaxer

heiney9 wrote: »

Cables matter whether they are XLR's or RCA's.

Monoprice is entry level at best. There are a lot of very nice sounding affordable cables to choose from and if you buy used you can save a lot. You won;t know until YOU try them yourself. Stick with a good brand like MIT and you'll loose very little value if you need to flip them because they aren't to your liking.

It's time to move out of the discussion and into the experimentation in your own rig with your own ears in your own listening space. No one can give you a singular answer about what cable is best because there is no singular answer.

Stop discussing and start listening :). It's the only way.

H9

Thanks H9, I know cables matter and make a difference. I have experimented enough to know that. I missed out on a great deal on MIT's on Audiogon..story of my life.

I don't know if I can swing the MIT's or not, but if I run across some I can afford you can bet I will get them. I guess the main reason for asking and researching them is because I can't afford the trial and error method, that could get crazy expensive.

I appreciate the input from everyone!!:)

heiney9

Good deals abound on MIT's. You just have to be dilligent everyday checking ebay and Audiogon. It took me 6 months to find a pair I was willing to spend money on.

The AVT series is pretty reasonable and is a great upper entry level line similar to the Terminator series which was one of their most popular series. I love my Terminator 2's all the way around and I have less than $400 invested in (3) pairs of I/C's and (1) pair of speaker cables. XLR cables do get a bit pricey because they were pricey to begin with.

I also have another $500 tied up in (4) MIT power cables

H9

P.s. *edited*

Hawkeye

I mentioned the Mogami Gold XLR's in a different thread. About $30-35 for a one meter piece. This really is a hidden treasure and well worth the dollars spent.

Gordon

vmaxer

Well, I finally ordered new cables, they are the PNF Audio ICON interconnects in balanced (XLR) flavor. I also ordered their Y cables and will continue to "ghetto" bi-amp until the time comes that I can upgrade again.

Steve at PNF Audio made me a deal I couldn't refuse......


Thanks to all who helped on this.

hearingimpared

vmaxer wrote: »

Well, I finally ordered new cables, they are the PNF Audio ICON interconnects in balanced (XLR) flavor. I also ordered their Y cables and will continue to "ghetto" bi-amp until the time comes that I can upgrade again.

Steve at PNF Audio made me a deal I couldn't refuse......


Thanks to all who helped on this.

Billy when you finally do get around to using a separate amp to biamp you will be stunned at the difference.

Have fun Bro.

cstmar01

heiney9 wrote: »

Good deals abound on MIT's. You just have to be dilligent everyday checking ebay and Audiogon. It took me 6 months to find a pair I was willing to spend money on.

The AVT series is pretty reasonable and is a great upper entry level line similar to the Terminator series which was one of their most popular series. I love my Terminator 2's all the way around and I have less than $400 invested in (3) pairs of I/C's and (1) pair of speaker cables. XLR cables do get a bit pricey because they were pricey to begin with.

I also have another $500 tied up in (4) MIT power cables

H9

P.s. *edited*

also check out MIT Express store. They have a place where you can send them an email of what you are looking for as a possibly B stock item (such as a return, or small blimish) and they will let you know when they get something in. Also they will have some good deals and IC's every now and then. I got my AVT3's from there and was very happy with both price and performance. 40 bucks for a 2M pair, not bad I didn't think.

cstmar01

http://www.mitcablesexpress.com/new-old-stock.html

link because I missed the edit window.