OK, the LHC is way cool and all that but this one freaks me out...

Jstas

..."Scientists at a government lab here are trying to use the world's largest laser -- it's the size of three football fields -- to set off a nuclear reaction so intense that it will make a star bloom on the surface of the Earth."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/science/04/28/laser.fusion.nif/index.html?hpt=C1


Yes, a star. Like the star called Sol, otherwise known as our Sun.

A star is the 2nd most powerful force in the known universe. gravity, radiation, just sheer energy, the only thing stronger is the destroyer of stars, the black hole. The sheer amount of energy needed to produce a black hole makes it highly unlikely that any Earth bound means would be capable of generating the singularity that would foster such a thing. But a star? If it is possible, and apparently, they think it is, how do you control it? How will it behave?

It's one of those things that strikes me as "just because you can, doesn't mean you should".

ohskigod

scientists use to follow a strict code of conduct or rules. Ethics if you will. that seems to no longer be the case. Many seem to be self serving d-bags. Look at the climategate issue. without getting into the debate of wether global warming is legit or not, they definitly skewed numbers to make there case, and that is insane.

In this case, they are going with a "ramifications? what does that even mean?" approach to science. I can definitly feel you on that causing some concern.

SolidSqual

I wonder what its life span would be like? Imagine if it was only a few years, then a black hole developed and finally took care of California once and for all! I'd be playing Tool's Aenima for months following.

SolidSqual

ohskigod wrote: »

scientists use to follow a strict code of conduct or rules. Ethics if you will. that seems to no longer be the case. Many seem to be self serving d-bags. Look at the climategate issue. without getting into the debate of wether global warming is legit or not, they definitly skewed numbers to make there case, and that is insane.

In this case, they are going with a "ramifications? what does that even mean?" approach to science. I can definitly feel you on that causing some concern.

Don't confuse the climategate **** with scientists. The real ones still do good work. I'm not sure about the strict code though. Seems to me those who push the moral fabric have made the most revolutionary discoveries. For example, heart surgery? See "Something the Lord Made" - its about some pioneering heart surgeons whom many believed were meddling in things best left to God.

nooshinjohn

Despite the fact that the reaction will "even exceed the conditions at the center of the sun," Van Wonterghem said, the controlled fusion is expected to be incredibly small and short-lived.

The star being cooked up in Livermore this summer is expected to die 200 trillionths of a second after it's ignited, Van Wonterghem said.

And it will measure only 5 microns across, which is several times smaller than the width of a human hair.

Just wondering where the concern is here... I personally am more concerned about the ethics of spending two-billion of my tax dollars on this hogwash for something that will last 2.0

ryanjoachim

And, in those recent years, the project has fallen a year off schedule, the GAO says, with the expected completion date for the research now at the end of 2012.

...December 2012 anyone? END OF THE WORLD BABY!

SolidSqual

Seriously though in the future: "Hey Honey, the 'mini-star' has black-holed again, I'm gonna head to Walmart and pick up a carton. Need anything?"

nooshinjohn

SolidSqual wrote: »

Seriously though in the future: "Hey Honey, the 'mini-star' has black-holed again, I'm gonna head to Walmart and pick up a carton. Need anything?"

To which the domestic partner(the term "wife" has been made illegal in the future) says...

"yes, I need a new Mr. Fusion for the car too. and don't forget the maxi-pads. I ran out yesterday.":p

ryanjoachim

nooshinjohn wrote: »

"and don't forget the maxi-pads. I ran out yesterday.":p

I grew up with 2 older sisters and my mom (I have 5 older sisters total), so i've been buying "feminine hygiene" products since I was old enough to go to the store alone.

Try buying a box of tampons and maxi-pads at the same time when you're 13. After that, buying condoms was a relief.

mhardy6647

The whole idea here is controlled nuclear fusion.

Fuse two hydrogen nuclei to make one helium nucleus. Calculate the mass of two hydrogen nuclei (for example one deuterium and one tritium) and the mass of the one resulting helium nucleus (plus a neutron) after fusion and there is a difference (the atomic mass deficit) between the two. That mass deficit expresses itself according to Einstein, E = mc^2. According to Wikipedia, the energy release from the fusion of one tritium and one deuterium nucleus is about 17.6 MeV (mega electron volts). The fusion of a little bit of hydrogen makes helium plus a lot of energy. That's what runs the stars.

Thermonuclear (H) bombs are uncontrolled fusion devices; the goal of the Ignition Facility is controlled fusion -- cheap, clean power. Root for 'em! :-)

fatchowmein

Queue up the Imperial March music.

agfrost

Damn John, I'd like to have your income if you've paid 2 billion in taxes!!

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Just wondering where the concern is here... I personally am more concerned about the ethics of spending two-billion of my tax dollars on this hogwash for something that will last 2.0

Tony M

Nooshinjohn....I think I have just read the BEST comments (from you) I've ever read on this forum..

ROTFLMAO.......

Brilliant...:D

drselect

mhardy6647 wrote: »

The fusion of a little bit of hydrogen makes helium........

And just imagine how we would all sound with that extra helium floating around?:eek::D

nooshinjohn

agfrost wrote: »

Damn John, I'd like to have your income if you've paid 2 billion in taxes!!

I wish I had that income too. The way I have come to think of the money collected in taxes is as MY MONEY. I think if every single taxpayer began doing the same thing, they would be far more inclined to put a stop to the wasteful and irresponsible spending practices of government.

Were it not for my tax dollars(and yours) Uncle Sam would be living on Skid Row in San Fransisco with his pants around his ankles looking for a handout. It's time he start living within his means and stop wasting money (my money) on this kind of crap.:)

cnh

mhardy6647 wrote: »

The whole idea here is controlled nuclear fusion.

Fuse two hydrogen nuclei to make one helium nucleus. Calculate the mass of two hydrogen nuclei (for example one deuterium and one tritium) and the mass of the one resulting helium nucleus (plus a neutron) after fusion and there is a difference (the atomic mass deficit) between the two. That mass deficit expresses itself according to Einstein, E = mc^2. According to Wikipedia, the energy release from the fusion of one tritium and one deuterium nucleus is about 17.6 MeV (mega electron volts). The fusion of a little bit of hydrogen makes helium plus a lot of energy. That's what runs the stars.

Thermonuclear (H) bombs are uncontrolled fusion devices; the goal of the Ignition Facility is controlled fusion -- cheap, clean power. Root for 'em! :-)

So what you're saying with regard to Jstas' link above is that this Monster Laser will experiment with producing a controlled fusion reaction that will have the power of solar fusion explosions, that are happening all the time in great numbers on the sun, on earth.

That's 'interesting' but what about the heat this will generate? If you have a solar bloom on earth--what material could 'contain it without being vaporized. Things are starting to sound sci-fi esque because you would need something like a Magnetic (EM) bottle (container).

I looked at the link..so they're going to contain this TINY sun which will not last very long with walls of THICK concrete....lol

And whatever happened to the idea of Breeder reactors which were nuclear based technology that supposedly produced less radioactive waste because materials were reusable?

cnh

SolidSqual

Anybody see this experiment as a crisis opportunity? Recently, Goldman Sachs inquisition before Congress on the heels of new Wallstreet regulations? Oil spill off the Gulf Coast as new talks of offshore drilling arise? Nuclear Fusion experiment goes wrong?????? Thus, nuclear power is also unsafe???

I don't know. Perhaps I've become a conspiracy nut since 2008. Perhaps I've just had too many conversations with Nooshinjohn.

nooshinjohn

SolidSqual wrote: »

Anybody see this experiment as a crisis opportunity? Recently, Goldman Sachs inquisition before Congress on the heels of new Wallstreet regulations? Oil spill off the Gulf Coast as new talks of offshore drilling arise? Nuclear Fusion experiment goes wrong?????? Thus, nuclear power is also unsafe???

I don't know. Perhaps I've become a conspiracy nut since 2008. Perhaps I've just had too many conversations with Nooshinjohn.

LOL!:D:D

yep... It is a conspiracy allright. I will fill in more of the blanks for you later.:D:p

mhardy6647

cnh wrote: »

So what you're saying with regard to Jstas' link above is that this Monster Laser will experiment with producing a controlled fusion reaction that will have the power of solar fusion explosions, that are happening all the time in great numbers on the sun, on earth.

That's 'interesting' but what about the heat this will generate? If you have a solar bloom on earth--what material could 'contain it without being vaporized. Things are starting to sound sci-fi esque because you would need something like a Magnetic (EM) bottle (container).

I looked at the link..so they're going to contain this TINY sun which will not last very long with walls of THICK concrete....lol

And whatever happened to the idea of Breeder reactors which were nuclear based technology that supposedly produced less radioactive waste because materials were reusable?

cnh

Last I knew the approach to containment was the use of magnetic fields; it's a nontrivial issue (which is [EDIT: part of the reason!] why the efforts to date have cost so much). And, clearly, I am not an expert on the topic.

ShinAce

mhardy6647 wrote: »

Last I knew the approach to containment was the use of magnetic fields; it's a nontrivial issue (which is [EDIT: part of the reason!] why the efforts to date have cost so much). And, clearly, I am not an expert on the topic.

It sounds like the confinement will be inertial, not magnetic. Magnetic confinement works on plasmas(gas). The 'fuel' is made of pellets.

So the pellet sits there, and suddenly, gets hit with a lot of laser light from all around. The surface of the pellet 'vaporizes' so quickly that it sends an immense shockwave inwards. This compresses and heats the pellet to conditions SIMILAR to that of the sun's core and fusion proceeds. It is not exactly a controlled reaction, so it's more like a mini bomb.

Carry on...

edit: props to me on 1k posts.

edit: fusion in the core of the sun is actually quite slow. It's the total amount of reactions for all of the sun that gives it a good output. A pellet sized piece of the sun's core would fuse much more slowly, but continuously. Magnetic bottles would yield a reaction more similar to that of the sun.