Cap upgrade kits on ebay

geppy1

Hi, Seen these around for awhile Has anyone ever tried this kit?? Is it a good idea parts wise?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260586902494&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Echosphere

I saw that too... I have no idea but they don't mention the OEM brand names of each part so question the quality.

But at least it's something and it's an enterprising individual who has managed to find a good niche market, so kudos to him for that!

Wish I could find a post here that simply has the direct link for each part for a repair and that was economical.

zingo

Don't do it. The parts are less than quality than you can get for the money. If upgrading crossovers is something you are interested in, a number of us could walk you though the process and component recommendations.

Echosphere

off topic: Jake you by chance have any leads in Seattle for a pair of RTA or SDA speakers?

Wanting to buy my first pair of Polks but CL, Audiogon and eBay seem a dead end right now. Could probably pay up to $500 max.

Hawthorne has some RTA's but they seem way overpriced...

F1nut

Is it a good idea parts wise?

No and I totally disagree with his comments about mylar vs poly and using electrolytic instead of poly.

Face

That seller is smoking crack.

heiney9

F1nut wrote: »

No and I totally disagree with his comments about mylar vs poly and using electrolytic instead of poly.

Face wrote: »

That seller is smoking crack.

I'd strongly agree with F1 and Face is correct.

The guy on ebay has a great marketing spiel, but as most marketing goes it bends the truth and is bunch of hype. Stick with the actual mods many of have done here and use the brands suggested as most here have real world experience and most modders know electrolytics in the signal path are sub-par with the exception of a cap like Black Gate which are no longer produced.

H9

Schurkey

Echosphere wrote: »

they don't mention the OEM brand names of each part

I used a pair of Dayton 5% caps on each low frequency crossover board when rebuilding the crossovers for my 1Bs. Same yellow ends as the caps in the picture.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=027-441


Dayton 1% caps went on the high frequency board; they've got white ends.

http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-loudspeaker-precision-1.cfm

heiney9

Schurkey wrote: »

I used a pair of Dayton 5% caps on each low frequency crossover board when rebuilding the crossovers for my 1Bs. Same yellow ends as the caps in the picture.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=027-441


Dayton 1% caps went on the high frequency board; they've got white ends.

http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-loudspeaker-precision-1.cfm

That doesn't necessarily mean the caps the ebay seller is selling are Daytons, I've seen lots of that color cap used in cheap chinese gear and I can tell you they aren't Daytons.

The seller is providing a nice service for the completely uninformed and his kit, while over priced, is probably better than the 20+ year old stock parts. But with a little digging and reading on the Polk forum will give you MUCH better results for your money than his kit.

IMO, the resistors (which are in the signal path) need to be changed to Mills non-inductive type. This does make a difference which the seller never even suggests.

H9

ALL212

Ya - looks like Dayton's on the left but those electrolytic bi-polars in the center of the picture - those are 10 cents worth of caps - you can do MUCH better for about the same price buying your own and following directions found on the forum.

As much as it pains me to agree with H9 ...

fbm211

If you want to go with daytons get them from parts express and only get the 1% versions.Thats what I have and they sound great.
Or go to soniccraft and get sonicaps.More expensive but worth it.

heiney9

I guess if we are giving suggestions I'd opt for Clarity Cap PX over Daytons and while Sonicaps are excellent Clarity SA or ESA are right on par with the Sonicaps too.

Clarity PX's on the low pass; Clarity SA's on the high pass would make a formidable improvement.

Crazylitvak

I actually bought that kit because I was a neophyte at the time and not yet a member of this forum. Since I had never recapped a crossover system in my life, the instructions were very helpful. The value of the kit are the instructions. The capacitors were Bennics. This was for a Monitor 10. Now that I have cut my teeth and am familiar with Madisound & Parts Express, there is no need for kits. Daytons & Bennics are a huge improvement over the original electrolytics. Whether to buy the Sonicaps, Clarity Cap SA etc really depends on the quality of the other elements of the audio system. The details that the higher priced caps deliver need quality audio systems to discern those details.
The guy selling kits is providing a necessary service and makes a few bucks. Good if you need it. I did and have moved on but am thankful that this guy had enough sense to make a kit for beginners like me.

heiney9

The kit and instructions are a great marketing idea. But not replacing the resistors and using electrolytics really devalues his service. I have no doubt he's on the up and up and I'm sure the guidance was very helpful and there was some improvement over the old parts..........but if someone is asking about it here; we're going to tell him to pass on the kit and recommend a better course of action.

H9

Crazylitvak

I agree that the info on this forum is a much better course of action.

Bobsama

heiney9 wrote: »

That doesn't necessarily mean the caps the ebay seller is selling are Daytons, I've seen lots of that color cap used in cheap chinese gear and I can tell you they aren't Daytons.

The seller is providing a nice service for the completely uninformed and his kit, while over priced, is probably better than the 20+ year old stock parts. But with a little digging and reading on the Polk forum will give you MUCH better results for your money than his kit.

IMO, the resistors (which are in the signal path) need to be changed to Mills non-inductive type. This does make a difference which the seller never even suggests.

H9

The real questions here about rebuilding the stock xover...
1) Quality of stock parts?
2) How much have stock parts degraded?

You'd be surprised. One of the first thing I'm going to do this summer is do a quick rebuild of my SDA-1's; I noticed some mismatched midwoofers (MW6600X's iirc) as stereo drivers, but didn't have the time to check the other 7 woofers or the passive radiators. (And the same for my Monitor 5's, which I could do now but I don't have any space.) Perhaps I'll present a small report on the state of original SDA-1's, just to give an idea of how the xovers have aged over 30 years. After all, there's little point in replacing xovers that still fall within a few percent (<5%) of original specs.

F1nut

I'd be surprised at what exactly? Your post makes no sense.

FTGV

Bobsama wrote: »

After all, there's little point in replacing xovers that still fall within a few percent (<5%) of original specs.

Maybe using capacitors with superior dielectric construction.;)

F1nut

Oh thanks FTGV, I missed that comment somehow. Bobsama, you couldn't be more wrong. Superior film and foil caps will always sound better than electrolytic caps.

ben62670

Do all speakers sound the same with the same frequency response? I like organic material over Poly or aluminum. All caps are not created equal.
Ben

Echosphere

I am new here but for the price of what he offers for folks who don't have time comparing caps, would it be a decent deal?

Please remember time is money. I seem to have less of each, every day.

Thanks again all for your input.

heiney9

Echosphere wrote: »

I am new here but for the price of what he offers for folks who don't have time comparing caps, would it be a decent deal?

Please remember time is money. I seem to have less of each, every day.

Thanks again all for your input.

No, not really. For the same cost or a little bit more you can improve the parts 10 fold over what he is supplying.

Face

There is plenty of info here on types of caps, etc...

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61727&highlight=capacitor

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99177&highlight=capacitor

Bobsama

F1nut wrote: »

Oh thanks FTGV, I missed that comment somehow. Bobsama, you couldn't be more wrong. Superior film and foil caps will always sound better than electrolytic caps.

I'm putting a bit of faith in Mr. Matthew Polk; I'll find out how good or bad the crossovers are on my SDA-1's in a few weeks when they go "in for repairs". For being the flagship loudspeaker, I'm actually curious to see how well they aged over the past 30 years. I hear and see so much about 1C and SRS and various Monitor rebuilds, but almost nothing about earlier SDA rebuilds.

We'll see. And if the crossovers are out of spec, I'll be eating my words. And, to be extra kind, I'll do it here for your viewing pleasure.

heiney9

Bobsama wrote: »

I'm putting a bit of faith in Mr. Matthew Polk; I'll find out how good or bad the crossovers are on my SDA-1's in a few weeks when they go "in for repairs". For being the flagship loudspeaker, I'm actually curious to see how well they aged over the past 30 years. I hear and see so much about 1C and SRS and various Monitor rebuilds, but almost nothing about earlier SDA rebuilds.

We'll see. And if the crossovers are out of spec, I'll be eating my words. And, to be extra kind, I'll do it here for your viewing pleasure.

You do realize that even Matt Polk today doesn't recommend electrolytics. And many of the upgrades of SDA's have been suggested by him. It just so happens that 30 years ago that's all that was readily available and didn;t cost an arm and a leg. In 30 years much progress has been made in the area of capacitors and superior materials are now used so by sticking with what worked 30 years ago you are limiting the full potential of your speakers.

Just so your aware...................your following Matt Polk of 1985 not 2010.

H9

ben62670

Bobsama wrote: »

I'm putting a bit of faith in Mr. Matthew Polk; I'll find out how good or bad the crossovers are on my SDA-1's in a few weeks when they go "in for repairs". For being the flagship loudspeaker, I'm actually curious to see how well they aged over the past 30 years. I hear and see so much about 1C and SRS and various Monitor rebuilds, but almost nothing about earlier SDA rebuilds.

We'll see. And if the crossovers are out of spec, I'll be eating my words. And, to be extra kind, I'll do it here for your viewing pleasure.

That is like saying that Chevy used X brand of tires so I won't get better tires.

heiney9

Bobsama wrote: »

I'll find out how good or bad the crossovers are on my SDA-1's in a few weeks when they go "in for repairs".

And how does one go about this? You can't just measure the parts "passively" outside the circuit. Plus the measurements won't tell you anything about "how" they sound compared to new components.

Seems like an awful lot of work when hundreds before you have experimented, gotten advice straight from the engineering dept and Matt Polk himself and documented it extensively on this board. Why not just do what is tried and true?

I'm just asking? Not trying to be arguementative.

H9

Bobsama

heiney9 wrote: »

And how does one go about this? You can't just measure the parts "passively" outside the circuit. Plus the measurements won't tell you anything about "how" they sound compared to new components.

Seems like an awful lot of work when hundreds before you have experimented, gotten advice straight from the engineering dept and Matt Polk himself and documented it extensively on this board. Why not just do what is tried and true?

I'm just asking? Not trying to be arguementative.

H9

Well I've not got $600 to entirely replace tweeters, midwoofers, basswoofers, crossovers, and refinish the cabinets and get all the cloth replaced. I know the tweeters are fine, I know I have at least one mismatched midwoofer (right ch stereo woofer) so, come summer, I'll be taking out the other 7 and inspecting them all. The issue is that it's highly unlikely I can find the original models (MW7500/7501 iirc). And coming around to crossovers, I usually compare the loudspeakers to headphones such as my own Senn HD-555's and will give a listening comparison to AKG K702's. From a head-to-head comparison between the K702's and CRS+'s with original crossovers, I was quite happy with both. Et cetera. I've not been able to hear my SDA-1's for a few months now. For all I know, the previous owner already rebuilt the xovers and everything's matched for as well as possible, now 25+ years after the fact.

heiney9

This is a crossover thread so I don;t know where you get the figure of $600 to refresh the x-overs.

I guess if you have issues outside the scope of the x-overs and the questions about refreshing them, since they are old and worn out, that's outside the scope of this thread.

If it were me, no way would I put $600 into an old pair of SDA's. You can buy a nice pair of newer (and better) SDA 1C's for that kind of money. Complete and in great shape for $600

The whole thing with the headphones went right over my head

Knock yourself out!

H9

F1nut

Bobsama wrote: »

I'm putting a bit of faith in Mr. Matthew Polk; I'll find out how good or bad the crossovers are on my SDA-1's in a few weeks when they go "in for repairs". For being the flagship loudspeaker, I'm actually curious to see how well they aged over the past 30 years. I hear and see so much about 1C and SRS and various Monitor rebuilds, but almost nothing about earlier SDA rebuilds.

We'll see. And if the crossovers are out of spec, I'll be eating my words. And, to be extra kind, I'll do it here for your viewing pleasure.

You don't seem to be grasping the facts here. The crossover components do not have to be out of spec for improvements to be heard when replacing the original parts, it's the use of better components that results in improved sound. Be aware that new caps require burn in and that can take anywhere from 200 to 400 hours depending on the brand/type.

When they go "in for repairs", what parts are you having replaced and what brand(s) are you/they using?

The issue is that it's highly unlikely I can find the original models (MW7500/7501 iirc).

The mid-drivers in both the SDA 1 and the SDA 1A are all MW6501's. Off the top of my head, I don't know if Polk still sells that model, so call them. If not, you should be able to find some either on eBay or in our flea market.

Bobsama

F1nut wrote: »

You don't seem to be grasping the facts here. The crossover components do not have to be out of spec for improvements to be heard when replacing the original parts, it's the use of better components that results in improved sound. Be aware that new caps require burn in and that can take anywhere from 200 to 400 hours depending on the brand/type.

When they go "in for repairs", what parts are you having replaced and what brand(s) are you/they using?



The mid-drivers in both the SDA 1 and the SDA 1A are all MW6501's. Off the top of my head, I don't know if Polk still sells that model, so call them. If not, you should be able to find some either on eBay or in our flea market.

Both of the original booklets indicate two models of MW7xxx; I'm not sure on exact model numbers but I have at least one of the original booklets in my desk at home.

Mind you, these are not your typical run-of-the-mill SDA-1's or 1A's. My best guess for dating them would be late 1983 to early 1984. The cabinet's the 3-chamber design. The top two chambers house the stereo and dimensional tweeters and midwoofer and are ported. The bottom chamber houses two basswoofers and the passive radiator. The crossovers are mounted (best as I can tell, not having taken a deep look inside) on a square plate. Instead of a blade/blade SDA cable, I have an so-called RTA-style connector with twisted biwire interior. The RTA cable itself is actually 3-prong, with only 2 prongs present. That the original booklets actually identify those details says that I've most likely got mostly factory speakers, though as I said I've not taken a good look inside since I purchased them approaching a year ago.

As for the comment about headphone vs. speaker comparison...
AKG K702's are considered to be very accurate but unforgiving headphones. They're a bit lean on bass but have a wide soundstage. They're the closest I've heard to reference headphones for <$300. (They retail for $250-260 on Amazon.) I have a fair bit of trust in them to present the music pretty darn uncolored, and be able to make a decent comparison for any glaring issues with my SDA's.

Oh, and as for brands? Polk whenever possible (ie: always) for drivers. Otherwise, Sonicap or Nippon or any of half a dozen other good manufacturers. And the $600 estimate is for doing a complete redo; 8 new midwoofers, 4 new tweeters, crossover rebuild, and modifying the cabinets to 1A Signature specs. Then again, I agree that I wouldn't spend $600 on a pair of $300 SDA's. I'd probably put $400 on stock 1A's and $200 towards fixing any issues.