Which sub would you choose?

jkratzer · May 2003

Polk PSW202
10" diameter
40Hz - 200Hz
50 watts RMS
100 watts dynamic

Polk PSW404
10" diameter
25Hz - 180Hz
200 watts RMS
450 watts dynamic

Velodyne CHT-12
12" diameter
25Hz - 120Hz
170 watts RMS
400 watts dynamic

I'm planning on upgrading my Polk PSW202 subwoofer which I received for free during the Polk promotion. I know that SVS is superior but I don't want a cylindrical sub and I am looking for a fairly small box sub instead. I've narrowed the field down to the Polk PSW404 and Velodyne CHT-12.

My main problem with the PSW202 is the frequency range only goes down to 40Hz. The two subs above go to 25 HZ. I use my system for 80% movies and 20% music and my room size is 14' X 16'.

If I upgrade, will I hear or feel a difference, or am I wasting money?

tryrrthg · May 2003

If it were my money I would go with none of those options and spend a little more to get an Adire Audio Rava sub ($399 + shipping). Although I haven't heard one I've read TOO many good things about the Shiva driver used in the sub. All the DIY people using the driver can't be wrong!

I have the PSW 450 and it's a good sub for the $200 I paid for it, but I don't think I'd buy another Polk sub. There are too many other good ones out there for the same money, especially if you can do the DIY route.

Rava Sub

Reviews of shiva driver that is used in the Rava sub:

also check out the Sub Kits (if you have the patience and the time) from parts express that's supposed to be pretty damn good also:

I'm guessing both of these subs will crush the polk subs but I'm not sure about the Velo...

just my .02

I'm sure Dr. Spec will chime in. he's the bass/sub expert on the forum...

TonyPTX · May 2003

jkratzer,

Sounds like you're in the same boat I'm in. You got some vested cash at CC but you're not happy with sub performance so you're looking at doing the trade in. I'm holding my breath for the PSW808 that is supposed to be coming out soon. Just hope CC will pick up the line before I lose the chance to upgrade. As for your quote on specs, the full range is just another spec. What you really need to look at is the -3dB cut off frequency which is 35Hz for the 404. I've got the 404, and although it's a nice sub, it has a heart attack attempting to reproduce anything below 32Hz. At least the CHT-12 goes down to a true 25Hz @ +/- 3dB.

jkratzer · May 2003

TonyPTX,

Since I got the PSW202 free on promotion, I actually don't have any money invested in my current sub but I thought I could used its value to trade up if CC would let me.

I've seen the -3 dB freqency ranges you mentioned in specs but I've go no idea what this is all about. Can you explain?

Where's Dr. Spec when you need him!

jkratzer · May 2003

tryrrthg,

I've been thinking about checking out what Parts Express had in the way of subs. I live about 25 minutes away from Parts Express. Since I am within driving distance, I purchased my interconnects, speaker cable, and banana plugs from them when I originally hooked up my home theater. They have a nice showroom. The 10" Titanic sub looks good.

tryrrthg · May 2003

jkratzer,

do you live in Ohio? I'm in Columbus. I've been wanting to check out parts express for a while but have never made it over there...

I would think the Adire Rava sub would best the parts express sub since it is a 12" driver vs the 10" from the parts express kit... both are good subs from what I've read.

good luck!

jkratzer · May 2003

Originally posted by tryrrthg
jkratzer,

do you live in Ohio? I'm in Columbus...

Yes. Nice to meet a fellow Ohio audiophile. I'm in Mason, OH, which is a northern suburb of Cincinnati. Parts Express is in a southern suburb of Dayton, which is 21 miles north right up I-75.

faster100 · May 2003

Just buy my polk 404 and be done with it

Tour2ma · May 2003

jk,
The good Doctor is out, so it is my duty to point out that SVS makes boxes, too.
http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pb1_isd.htm
At $599 + S&H, it's right at the MSRP of the CHT-12, but gets you down to 22 Hz with 320 w behind it into 4 ohms...

As to your +/- 3 db question the specs reflect the subs frequency limits.

To determine the frequency response of a driver, its output is measured in decibels (db), the most common unit of sound pressure level (spl), across a frequency range that is broader than what the driver can reproduce. At the upper and lower frequency limits of the driver the spl simply rolls off. When the spl rolls off by 3 db, a noticeable reduction in volume, it is taken as the limit of the driver. How level a drivers spl output is between these limits is a measure of its "flatness".

While no driver is perfectly flat across the range of frequencies it can reproduce, and there can be peaks as well as valleys, any good driver will be easily be inside +/-3 db within the limits of its frequency range. Many will be well within that range and some within +/- 1 db. very flat.

Must note that the specs are based upon anechoic measurements, meaning they are done in rooms treated to eliminate sound reflections. The reflections, or echoes, might otherwise reinforce, or cancel, the drivers direct sound wave at the measurement location. Since you dont listen in an anechoic room, your results may vary This gets into sub placement and other issues, but save them for later.

Hope this last bit helped, since the link was bound to muddy things up a bit.

BTW, native Clevelander here, so between you, tryrrthg and I, weve got a pretty good chunk of OHIO covered You ever ridden Son-of-the-Beast?

carvinman1 · May 2003

I have Fairfield Township covered. Maybe we could have an Ohio Polk get together sometime.

Danny

tryrrthg · May 2003

Any of you guys know of any good audio shops in Ohio?

I've been to the following:

www.progressiveaudio.com in columbus (one of the best shops in the country, or so I've read).

www.audioencounters.com in columbus

www.genesisaudio.com in columbus

www.audio-etc.net in Dayton

there's one in Cinci that I'd like to get to, you guys know of any others?

Tour2ma,

Where are you at in TX? I got my center channel from Audio Systems in Austin. Nice store. Got to visit it while on vacation visiting friends. That's where I fell in love with Dynaudio!

jkratzer · May 2003

Originally posted by tryrrthg
Any of you guys know of any good audio shops in Ohio?

I've been to the following:

www.progressiveaudio.com in columbus (one of the best shops in the country, or so I've read).

www.audioencounters.com in columbus

www.genesisaudio.com in columbus

www.audio-etc.net in Dayton

there's one in Cinci that I'd like to get to, you guys know of any others?

In Cinci, I like these:

www.audibleelegance.com - B&W speakers; B&K, rotel components

Sound Waves - Polk, Paradigm speakers; Denon, Pioneer Elite components - don't know url

jkratzer · May 2003

Originally posted by Tour2ma
jk,
As to your +/- 3 db question

...You ever ridden Son-of-the-Beast?

Thanks Tour2ma. I understand the +/- 3dB issue now.

Yes, I have ridden the Beast and Son-Of-Beast rollercoasters at Paramount's Kings Island. I like the Beast better because it is less harsh. The Son-Of-Beast has tighter turns and at 70 mph it can get rough! One of these days I will get up your way to try the awesome coasters at Cedar Point.

Tour2ma · May 2003

try,

Once upon a time Audiocraft was THE place to go in Cleveland, AR, McIntosh, Thorens, Shure/ SME, KLH... but just checked their website and, sigh, they've gone a little BB/CC-ish.

I'm Gulf Coast, but love Austin and will be heading there later this year... right Russ?

jk,
Glad the write-up helped. What do you think of the SVS box?

I rode the Beast multiple times annually starting the year it opened for a few years. Ex-In-laws lived in Cinci. Haven't been there since Son... was built.

Cedar Point... great old park. I have yet to ride Millenium Force and now they've built "Top Thrill Dragster"...

... Maybe next year I'll get there.
http://www.topthrilldragster.com/public/inside_park/rides/thrill/ttd/

jkratzer · May 2003

Originally posted by tryrrthg
Any of you guys know of any good audio shops in Ohio?

I've been to the following:

www.progressiveaudio.com in columbus (one of the best shops in the country, or so I've read).

www.audioencounters.com in columbus

www.genesisaudio.com in columbus

www.audio-etc.net in Dayton

there's one in Cinci that I'd like to get to, you guys know of any others?

Hey, do any of those shops sell Polk?

I was at Sound Waves today here in Cinci and got a chance to sample some LSi7's and an LSiC for the first time. I must say they sounded excellent with music, better than I thought they would for their size. Do the LSi's use the same silk tweeter as the RTi series or do they use another material? The LSiC uses smaller midwoofers than my CSi40 but it sounded good.

dorokusai · May 2003

The LSi uses a completely different tweeter, a ring radiator. More info is on hompage. The LSiC doesnt have the punch that the CSi40 does, IMO, but it is a small amount better than the CSi30. They have same size drivers, just ported differently w/ addition of ARC ports.

Don't get me wrong, the LSIC is sweet and has some ****, just the CSi40 covers more surface area, and has more hair.

tryrrthg · May 2003

Hey, do any of those shops sell Polk?

I'm afraid not. Just about everything that Progressive has would stomp all over Polk, except for maybe the lower end B&W's. They are a HIGH end shop. Wilson Audio, Krell, Theil, B&W, ProAc. If you get a chance I HIGHLY recomend you go for a visit just for fun. It is INSANE in there. I went with a buddy of mine and we were bringing down the house with their set up upstairs. Wilson Audio Watt Puppy's with Spectral amps, and a $30,000 CD player from dCS. That system costs more than the house I grew up in. But it sounds so amazing! Well worth the time to come check it out!

The other shops are more of the lower high end. Paradigm, Mirage, Denon, Marantz, Rotel, Arcam. Still great stuff, just not the murchandise that Progressive has...

the shop in Dayton has some good stuff, but I thought the guy that worked there was a jerk...

Which sub would you choose?

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