Speaker spikes, what's the point?

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afterburnt
afterburnt Posts: 7,892
edited February 2015 in Speakers
This is actually a serious question I have not been able to figure out what they do. I am considering putting my speakers on ball bearing transfers and I want to know why this is a bad idea because I am sure it is lol.

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  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
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    Oh and I thought someone said the speakers were drilled and tapped for spikes, these aren't.
  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
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    Whats the "point" of an explanation if you "still" dont understand.
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,162
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    Spikes help isolate your speakers from vibration by reducing the contact area between the floor and bottom of the speaker. They are pretty easy to install, even on speakers that are not set up for them.

    I know nothing of the other setup option you presented, as spikes are almost always the preferred method.
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  • gce
    gce Posts: 2,158
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    Spikes are for coupling your towers to the floor or coupling your bookies to your stands or coupling your stands to your floor. Using something with a bigger footprint like rubber feet on your speakers would be decoupling.

    Anaheim Hills CA,
    HT 5.1: Anthem MRX 720 / BDP-Denon DBT1713UD / Polkaudio LSiM703 / W4S mAmp's / Polkaudio LSiM706c / Polkaudio LSiM702F/X's / SVS PC12-NSD / Panasonic TC P55VT30

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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,162
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    gce wrote: »
    Spikes are for coupling your towers to the floor or coupling your bookies to your stands or coupling your stands to your floor. Using something with a bigger footprint like rubber feet on your speakers would be decoupling.

    Thanks for the better explanation. I knew about the coupling/de-coupling but did not find the words to describe it as well as you did.

    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
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    Whats the "point" of an explanation if you "still" dont understand.
    that was helpful
  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
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    Sorry AfterB, that was my lame sense of humor as you noticed I quoted point, as in the spike. I also quoted still as in to stop the speaker from moving, into my reply to answer the question.
  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
    edited February 2015
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    gce wrote: »
    Spikes are for coupling your towers to the floor or coupling your bookies to your stands or coupling your stands to your floor. Using something with a bigger footprint like rubber feet on your speakers would be decoupling.
    thanks now I understand the theory. the house is not on a slab and has hardwood floors so it resonates quite a bit at certain frequencies. The ball bearing thing was just an outgrowth of the earthquake issue that I posted.
  • leftwinger57
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    I think spikes on a wood floor would do nothing but ruin your floor. At 85 lbs my 2Bs are not going anywhere on a wood floor. I did replace the small button sliders that came w/ the originals and bumped them up a few sizes for ease of movement . For carpets where you can have that tendency to slide I agree spikes are needed to isolate and secure a sure and steady spot. W/ the right drill and tools spikes are easy to install and come in many colors flavors and price points and not to mention heights.
    2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

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  • gce
    gce Posts: 2,158
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    I think spikes on a wood floor would do nothing but ruin your floor.

    That's where a "Spike cup" comes into play.

    n9zqmee0wbiw.jpg


    Anaheim Hills CA,
    HT 5.1: Anthem MRX 720 / BDP-Denon DBT1713UD / Polkaudio LSiM703 / W4S mAmp's / Polkaudio LSiM706c / Polkaudio LSiM702F/X's / SVS PC12-NSD / Panasonic TC P55VT30

    2 Channel: Rogue RP-5 / WireWorld Electra power cord / Marantz TT-15S1/ Ortofon - Quintet Black MC / Marantz NA8005 DAC / W4S mAmp's / Synology DS 216+ll-4TB / Polkaudio LSiM703
  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    edited February 2015
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    afterburnt wrote: »
    ... the house is not on a slab and has hardwood floors so it resonates quite a bit at certain frequencies.
    Isolation is what you want. Forget the fancy spikes&pads and get some rubber under the speakers. $2 rubber feet all the way up to $50/set of four sorbothane, elastomer will do wonders for killing cabinet vibrations to the floor.

    If you decide to replace the plastic feet on your speakers there are many options.

    http://www.parts-express.com/cat/case-cabinet-feet/648

    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=sorbothane+feet&rh=i:aps,k:sorbothane+feet

    http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/subwoofer-accessories/soundpath-subwoofer-isolation-system


    If you do decide to go with spikes there are cone/spike decoupling gliders you can place under them:

    http://herbiesaudiolab.net/spkrfeet.htm
    Post edited by WLDock on
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,883
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    thanks now I understand the theory. the house is not on a slab and has hardwood floors so it resonates quite a bit at certain frequencies.

    That's more likely to be the speakers, not the floor. You need to spike them, which will couple them to the floor and stop the cabinets from resonating.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,883
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    At 85 lbs my 2Bs are not going anywhere on a wood floor. I did replace the small button sliders that came w/ the originals and bumped them up a few sizes for ease of movement .

    You've got it all wrong.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,497
    edited February 2015
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    Jesse What spikes would you recommend for 1c's ? Is there a site that might have a kit with both spikes & disc kit ? Thanks for any recommendations
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    Randy/Maine
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,883
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    Lots of places sell spikes and discs, Parts Express and Adona come to mind.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • codyc1ark
    codyc1ark Posts: 2,530
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    I believe Outlaw Audio has them fairly inexpensive, I know they have the discs.
  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,497
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    Thanks. Ive seen alot but wasnt sure which ones to pull the trigger on
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    Randy/Maine
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,464
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    Hello, afterburnt. To answer your question on what the point is with spikes, sonically speaking;

    Clear up midrange/vocals
    Tighten bass/mid-bass
    Sharpen the perceived imaging/sound stage
    Help to keep movement from the speaker from transferring it's energy to the floor

    All of which will improve the sonic signature that emanates from the speakers. That's the sonic "point" of spikes, no pun intended.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,464
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    Okay, please allow me to get technical and a bit mathematical for a stint with a long read from Louis Motek of LessLoss Audio. Please note that this is a long read but there is a point to all of this at the end of the post, for those who are interested.
    Micro vibrations - Why do so many people think that microvibration control is a myth? All those tricky footers, and weird cables, and stands. Isn’t it a business founded on trickery and hypnotism? On the selling of snake-oil?

    Microvibration control is serious business. After all, your entire hearing is based on it. And after reading this article, your entire thinking about audio will be, too. The logic is right here in front of you. All you have to do is look at the numbers.

    And those numbers are, Mr. Wise Guy?

    The loudest sound you can withstand before sustaining temporary damage to your ears is about 123 dB SPL. You know, the sound from right behind a jet plane. In order to produce this amount of sound pressure, you may find it surprising to learn that the air molecules themselves get displaced all of 11 microns. That’s right. 10 TIMES LESS than your average human hair is thick.

    Fast forward. It is now late at night. All in the house is quiet. You can’t sleep. Far, far away, outside, you can make out the chirping of a lonely cricket. It is very faint, yet you are sure that you hear it distinctly. This sound is caused by a vibration of air molecules which are displaced by only 11 picometers. This is about 1/20th the diameter of an average sized atom.

    You can begin to appreciate that the human ear is a remarkably sensitive detector of vibrations. Your bare hearing already functions on a subatomic level of precision.

    But what about your equipment? What should it care about microvibrations? It doesn’t have hears, does it? Well, you are wrong. It does have ears, and by far more sensitive ones than even yours.

    Metal conducts electricity because it contains countless shared electrons amongst its atoms. Together, the zillions and gazillions of these individual outer shell electronics make up a cloud of negative charge. This is similar to the way in which the zillions and gazillions of individual atoms in the air make up an invisible cloud of something we breath (and sneeze into) which we call air. Air provides a conduit for pressure vibrations to traverse. Likewise, the electron cloud in a metal provides a conduit for charge vibrations to traverse.

    Now that you understand that electrons together make up something akin to a malleable gas of charge, you can see how it can be vibrated just like air pressure is vibrated to create a sound wave in air. The air is stuck to the earth via gravity, yet remains a fluid. Electrons are stuck to the metal via subatomic bonds, yet they act like a fluid as well.

    So how much does this fluid vibrate in YOUR sound system, and where did Diana Krall’s voice come from in the first place? When the needle vibrates in the record groove, a microvibration of its tip causes a small current to form. How small? About 0.191 nW (nanowatts). A nanowatt is a thousand millionth of a watt. That’s 1/1000000000 of a watt. So 0.191 nW is only about a fifth of a nanowatt.

    You can’t be serious! Nobody can ever hear that!

    Of course not. That’s why your system first amplifies it. How many times? Well, let’s say your speakers play at a comfortable listening level when they are getting 12 Watts of power. That’s a typical real-world number for most speakers’ sensitivity. So we have to amplify the original signal which was 0.191 nW 63 BILLION times, in order to get 12 Watts of power that we can enjoy.

    0.000000000191 x 63,000,000,000 = 12

    Let’s say that these 12 watts generate a sound at 80 dB SPL at your listening chair. That’s where you’ve placed your ears last time you checked. When the sound wave of Diana Krall’s 500 Hz note finally hits your eardrum at 80 dB SPL, the actual molecules in the air are vibrating at only 0.15 micrometers maximum displacement. That’s only 0.00015 millimeters.

    Next time your wife tells you to turn it down, you are now well-equipped to respond, “but it’s only 0.15 microns displacement, dear!”

    That’s for analogue, but this is a Digital World today. With digital, it makes no difference.

    Boy are you wrong! In digital, the problem is the placement of all the samples in the time domain (Jitter). People can hear the results of digital signal Jitter amounts of less than 50 pS. That’s picoseconds, which would be 50/100000000000 of a second). The samples are going by so fast, but we have, with redbook CD audio, 44.1 thousand (x2 for stereo) chances of hearing this tiny displacement of time per second, so we do pretty well at it, since they are all more or less imperfect.

    Next time you are at a football field, go to one of the goal lines, and stand on it. Look all the way across the field at the other goal line. You are looking at one sample. Yes, the far goal line is the next sample in the audio. Now take but one step towards it. Make it a millimeter step, please. That is the amount of Jitter you can hear in an audio stream! Of course it never occurs only once, but in a statistical way, this small deviation from the perfect goal line is what you are able to hear in the audio signal as an artificial distortion, when it is off each time by a maximum amount of that much.

    So, as you can see, we are well equipped to hear tiny microvibrations, especially when these are amplified 63 billion times before we take a listen with our very sensitive hearing to investigate what it is that might really be going on at a sub-atomic level in our sound systems’ circuitry.

    Now, with that said, speaker spikes help to control those microvibrations aforementioned (as well as the bigger vibrations/sound waves) that your speakers provide. This helps to clean up the sound and offer you a step up in the reproductive effort, which brings you closer to the real event whilst listening. I hope this helps to answer your inquiry.

    If you do have hardwood floors as you had mentioned, spikes will help out dramatically but make no mistake - they will not be a "cure all" for other issues you may have in your system or room that create or maintain resonances.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
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    Tom, very interesting. Thanks.
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  • aprazer402
    aprazer402 Posts: 3,111
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    Good read. In this photo spikes removed, speakers installed. Thank you.
    9fftnz5nzte1.jpg
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,883
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    boston1450 wrote: »
    Thanks. Ive seen alot but wasnt sure which ones to pull the trigger on

    Ok, well that's going to depend on what speakers you put them on, how tall they need to be, how much weight they will need to support, if they have to pierce carpet, etc.

    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • aprazer402
    aprazer402 Posts: 3,111
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    Please yell at me, I'm way new here, if I'm "busting into" someone's thread and line of communication. It seems like many others have asked questions here too. I feel I already busted in with my earlier post of the shoe speaker. Let me know if I should have started a new post. My question concerns the Polk CRS stands, they are spiked, but are lightweight until you place the somewhat heavy CRS on them. Are these stands improved by adding shot or sand to them? How would one couple the speakers to the top of the stand? Armacell? Add small points facing upward on the top of the stand to rest the speaker on? Thanks. f6d9zjlut03y.jpg
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,883
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    I added 22 lbs. of lead shot to each of mine, which was a big help. You have to pry the top and bottom end caps off, a serious PITA, because they are separate chambers. You will also have to plug the small hole on the inner face of the bottom tube.

    As for coupling or de-coupling speakers to stands I recently discovered that de-coupling works better, but there are so many variables that you should try each for yourself.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • aprazer402
    aprazer402 Posts: 3,111
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    So many variations with spikes, coupling, de-coupling at the base and at the speaker contact points... Lot of interesting recent posts. Thank you, I think adding shot is the way to go. I now remember your post adding shot to your's a year or two ago. So if I were to put Armacell or Blu-tack along the top of the metal stand and rested the speaker on it, it would be considered "coupled" and if I had say four small metal cones on the stand top to rest the speaker on, it would be "de-coupled"? Thanks again.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,883
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    Armacell is too soft, it'll compress to nothing. You can try Blu-tack, but it is both a coupler and de-coupler at the same time, strange stuff. Metal cones pointing up would de-couple.

    Take great care trying to pry those ends caps off, they are in there extremely tight and you don't want to chip the paint.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
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    aprazer402 wrote: »
    Please yell at me, I'm way new here, if I'm "busting into" someone's thread and line of communication. It seems like many others have asked questions here too. I feel I already busted in with my earlier post of the shoe speaker. Let me know if I should have started a new post. My question concerns the Polk CRS stands, they are spiked, but are lightweight until you place the somewhat heavy CRS on them. Are these stands improved by adding shot or sand to them? How would one couple the speakers to the top of the stand? Armacell? Add small points facing upward on the top of the stand to rest the speaker on? Thanks. f6d9zjlut03y.jpg
    HEY START A NEW THREAD!!!
  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,497
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    [/quote]
    HEY START A NEW THREAD!!!
    [/quote]

    Sorry. I too posted here...... It is all about spikes though :smile: carry on
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    Randy/Maine
  • MetropolisLake
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    I can understand rubber feet on hardwood and almost tall thick expensive spikes, but I don't get the whole short thin spikes thing in terms of it making the acoustics noticeably better, such as the ones that are often included with speakers. If your carpet is thick those things are going to poke right through the thick nap and much of your speaker's bottom will still be sitting on the carpet.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,883
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    The cheap steel spikes that often come with speakers should be considered serviceable and should be replaced with real spikes.
    If your carpet is thick those things are going to poke right through the thick nap and much of your speaker's bottom will still be sitting on the carpet.

    You want the spikes to poke through the carpet, but if your speaker bottom is still resting on the carpet you need taller spikes.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk