SRS2 upgrade

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kjgarrison
kjgarrison Posts: 17
edited August 2010 in Vintage Speakers
Might as well get started. I read Hawkeye's SRS2 Experience thread and have decided to dust off and upgrade my ~25 year old pair of SRS2s.

I will definitely want to upgrade the tweeters and the crossover. I don't know if the other drivers can or should be upgraded, but I do know that some have dented dust caps.

I haven't taken anything apart yet, pending advice on how to avoid making mistakes, salvaging gaskets, etc.

I either need to search about the Dynamat thing Hawkeye did, or be offered a link.

Otherwise the one I opened up the plastic bag to look at just needs some minimal resurfacing of the top. Grill looks OK. No telling what might be loose and rattling around inside. I was shocked to find that I still have the interconnect/crossover cable. :eek:

I have the original pre&amp I used with these, a Yamaha C-80/M-80 at least for the time being. Should I look into building a Dreadnaught?

I guess most of the expense will be crossover parts, and I want to get anything within reason that will make an audible difference. From what you guys have already told me, "within reason" will be in the $500 range. That's not a hard limit, though.
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  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited July 2010
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    Good speakers !! Welcome !!

    Do yours have the pin and blade plug on the ends of your I/C cable or, is there two blades of differing widths ?:)
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  • kjgarrison
    kjgarrison Posts: 17
    edited July 2010
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    gdb wrote: »
    Good speakers !! Welcome !!

    Do yours have the pin and blade plug on the ends of your I/C cable or, is there two blades of differing widths ?:)

    Thanks for the welcome. Two blades of differing widths.
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  • Big Dawg
    Big Dawg Posts: 2,005
    edited July 2010
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    That's the 1986 vintage - same ones I have. I'm in the process of acquiring the parts to perform Inspiredsports' TL upgrade - you may want to read up on it.
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  • kjgarrison
    kjgarrison Posts: 17
    edited July 2010
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    Thanks. I'll look for it.
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  • kjgarrison
    kjgarrison Posts: 17
    edited July 2010
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    Big Dawg wrote: »
    That's the 1986 vintage - same ones I have. I'm in the process of acquiring the parts to perform Inspiredsports' TL upgrade - you may want to read up on it.
    I found his thread. Doesn't look like he ever finished it. Makes me nervous to follow him.
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  • Big Dawg
    Big Dawg Posts: 2,005
    edited July 2010
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    kjgarrison wrote: »
    I found his thread. Doesn't look like he ever finished it. Makes me nervous to follow him.

    Not sure which thread you found - try this one:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74946

    You have to read all the way through to the end...
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited July 2010
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    kjgarrison wrote: »
    I found his thread. Doesn't look like he ever finished it. Makes me nervous to follow him.


    Hello kj, and welcome to Club Polk.

    You might have found 1 single post, but actually, I have about 2,200 posts here.

    The image/diagram in Post #136 in the post in http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74946 is the definitive answer in modding a 4 ohm (4 x MW6509 midwoofers per cabinet) 1986 blade/blade SDA SRS 2 to use RDO198-1's.

    Matt Polk suggested the mod to another member who inquired about TL modding another model that uses the same crossover architecture.

    I listen to these speakers about 30+ hours per week.

    I modded them first with capacitor/resistor upgrades and RDO194-1's and felt the treble was inferior to my TL'd SDA 2B's so I set out to find a way to add RDO198-1's to the SDA SRS 2's.

    The SDA SRS 2's do have some inerent problems with "phasiness" in that they used multiple tweeters per cabinet before Polk engineers figured out how to profile their outputs as well as in later SRS models, but they trow one of the widest soundstages I've ever experienced.
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited July 2010
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    Oops, the above post should read post #135, not 136.

    Also please note this mod is only possible with 1986 SDA SRS 2 4ohm blade/blade models.
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • kjgarrison
    kjgarrison Posts: 17
    edited July 2010
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    Big Dawg wrote: »
    Not sure which thread you found - try this one:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74946

    You have to read all the way through to the end...

    Thanks. That looks like the thread I was hoping for. I was looking it up on my smart phone and found the one below.
    inspiredsports wrote: »
    Hello kj, and welcome to Club Polk.

    You might have found 1 single post, but actually, I have about 2,200 posts here.

    The image/diagram in Post #136 in the post in http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74946 is the definitive answer in modding a 4 ohm (4 x MW6509 midwoofers per cabinet) 1986 blade/blade SDA SRS 2 to use RDO198-1's.

    Matt Polk suggested the mod to another member who inquired about TL modding another model that uses the same crossover architecture.

    I listen to these speakers about 30+ hours per week.

    I modded them first with capacitor/resistor upgrades and RDO194-1's and felt the treble was inferior to my TL'd SDA 2B's so I set out to find a way to add RDO198-1's to the SDA SRS 2's.

    The SDA SRS 2's do have some inerent problems with "phasiness" in that they used multiple tweeters per cabinet before Polk engineers figured out how to profile their outputs as well as in later SRS models, but they trow one of the widest soundstages I've ever experienced.

    Well alrighty then! Some new material for me to dive into! And glad for it.

    I found this thread:
    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78812

    Looking at the dates for the one I found I notice that it ran for only about a month, and that month was in the middle of the main thread seemingly on the same topic.

    Thanks for finding me. I was lost.

    I have an pair of SDA SRS 2 blade/blade, so I'm good to go based on Big Dawg's info that they are '86 vintage.

    Onward to post 135.
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  • kjgarrison
    kjgarrison Posts: 17
    edited July 2010
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    OK I'm back with a quick question. OK, two.

    In summary, too brief I know:

    You first upgraded the components of the crossover using stock resistors values and stock caps values (although higher quality) for the stock tweeter (SL2000/RDO-194-1) replacement. It didn't sound good enough (even though you didn't give it a couple thousand hours ... lol). After a TON of digging and with a TON of help from the guys here, your final crossover for the upgraded tweeters (SL3000/RDO-198-1) was to change the value of a single capacitor from 4.4 uf to 5.8 uf. Oh, and the "oversight" of leaving that one resistor at 3.5 ohm seems to have been a good thing.

    1. That about right?

    2. Have you or anybody else done any measurements such as with REW, RTA, or similar?

    Impressive work in any case. Inspired, actually.
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  • kjgarrison
    kjgarrison Posts: 17
    edited August 2010
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    Can somebody point me to a post or thread that shows the layers involved with the Dynamat and the caulking? Isn't all this going to be kind of thick?
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,799
    edited August 2010
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    The SDA SRS 2's do have some inerent problems with "phasiness" in that they used multiple tweeters per cabinet before Polk engineers figured out how to profile their outputs as well as in later SRS models, but they trow one of the widest soundstages I've ever experienced.

    Are you talking about the SDA 2 or the SDA SRS 2?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,799
    edited August 2010
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    kjgarrison wrote: »
    Can somebody point me to a post or thread that shows the layers involved with the Dynamat and the caulking? Isn't all this going to be kind of thick?

    The search function is your friend.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,017
    edited August 2010
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    F1nut wrote: »
    Are you talking about the SDA 2 or the SDA SRS 2?

    I hear you Jesse. My SRS2's aren't phasey at all and I think that's where your going.;)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited August 2010
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    F1nut wrote: »
    The SDA SRS 2's do have some inerent problems with "phasiness" in that they used multiple tweeters per cabinet before Polk engineers figured out how to profile their outputs as well as in later SRS models, but they throw one of the widest soundstages I've ever experienced.
    F1nut wrote: »
    Are you talking about the SDA 2 or the SDA SRS 2?

    This goes back to Nov 2008 when I was originally having these modded by Ben.

    I was used to the sound of my SDA 2B's which have a single tweeter per cabinet and extremely pure treble reporduction. I felt the SDA SRS 2's (in stock form) had a much wider soundstage, but a different sound quality perhaps caused by the use of 2 tweeters per cabinet.

    Ben described this sound as "phasiness", and I latched on to that term as it seems to best describe what I was hearing. We even talked about bypassing the second tweeter and modify the high-pass using the electronic architecture of the high-pass section of the SDA 2B. I liked the wider soundstage and elected to keep both tweeters in the path.

    Right now I am in the process of taking these apart to install speaker mounting rings and am using my 2B's so the SRS 2's are for the moment out of the loop.
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,799
    edited August 2010
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    There seems to be some confusion on someones part, not mine. The SDA 2's have side by side tweeters, which do impart a phasiness. The SDA SRS 2's tweeters are mounted vertically in a progessive point source, there is no phasiness.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited August 2010
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    F1nut wrote: »
    There seems to be some confusion on someones part, not mine. The SDA 2's have side by side tweeters, which do impart a phasiness. The SDA SRS 2's tweeters are mounted vertically in a progessive point source, there is no phasiness.

    "Phasiness" must be the wrong word.

    I've always seemed to detect a "delay / echo / etc." between the signal from the main top and secondary bottom tweeters of the SDA SRS 2's, in direct comparison to my single point source SDA 2B's.
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • mmadden28
    mmadden28 Posts: 4,283
    edited August 2010
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    F1nut wrote: »
    There seems to be some confusion on someones part, not mine. The SDA 2's have side by side tweeters, which do impart a phasiness. The SDA SRS 2's tweeters are mounted vertically in a progessive point source, there is no phasiness.

    Has it ever been discussed to reorient the side by side tweeters in the SDA 2's to be mounted vertically? Of course it would take a bit of woodworking but... Just curious.
    ____________________
    This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.

    HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
    2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
    Pool: Atrium 60's/45's
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  • Big Dawg
    Big Dawg Posts: 2,005
    edited August 2010
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    mmadden28 wrote: »
    Has it ever been discussed to reorient the side by side tweeters in the SDA 2's to be mounted vertically? Of course it would take a bit of woodworking but... Just curious.

    I believe that one of the tweeters in the original SDA 2 was part of the dimensional array, and therefore would be better off simply disconnected.
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  • kjgarrison
    kjgarrison Posts: 17
    edited August 2010
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    F1nut wrote: »
    The search function is your friend.

    I sent the message from my Droid. Didn't have time to type out that I had done a search that yielded a bunch of posts but wasn't finding an answer.

    I'll try again.
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  • kjgarrison
    kjgarrison Posts: 17
    edited August 2010
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    kjgarrison wrote: »
    Might as well get started. I read Hawkeye's SRS2 Experience thread and have decided to dust off and upgrade my ~25 year old pair of SRS2s.

    I will definitely want to upgrade the tweeters and the crossover. I don't know if the other drivers can or should be upgraded, but I do know that some have dented dust caps.

    I haven't taken anything apart yet, pending advice on how to avoid making mistakes, salvaging gaskets, etc.

    I either need to search about the Dynamat thing Hawkeye did, or be offered a link.

    Otherwise the one I opened up the plastic bag to look at just needs some minimal resurfacing of the top. Grill looks OK. No telling what might be loose and rattling around inside. I was shocked to find that I still have the interconnect/crossover cable. :eek:

    I have the original pre&amp I used with these, a Yamaha C-80/M-80 at least for the time being. Should I look into building a Dreadnaught?

    I guess most of the expense will be crossover parts, and I want to get anything within reason that will make an audible difference. From what you guys have already told me, "within reason" will be in the $500 range. That's not a hard limit, though.

    EDIT: This will be TS upgrade
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  • Hawkeye
    Hawkeye Posts: 1,313
    edited August 2010
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    kjgarrison wrote: »
    EDIT: This will be TS upgrade

    I've read about the tl but, could you explain TS?

    Gordon

    Did you find the Dynamat link? I may it saved somplace.
    2 Channel -
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  • kjgarrison
    kjgarrison Posts: 17
    edited August 2010
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    Hawkeye wrote: »
    I've read about the tl but, could you explain TS?

    Gordon

    Did you find the Dynamat link? I may it saved somplace.

    Sorry. I'm too tired to be posting. Of course it is TL. I'll edit my post.

    I haven't found a specific "how to" on the Dynamat yet
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,799
    edited August 2010
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    inspiredsports wrote: »
    "Phasiness" must be the wrong word.

    I've always seemed to detect a "delay / echo / etc." between the signal from the main top and secondary bottom tweeters of the SDA SRS 2's, in direct comparison to my single point source SDA 2B's.

    Was that before or after you installed the RD0198-1 in the top position? If before, you're the first person I've heard report a delay/echo between the top and bottom tweeter.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,799
    edited August 2010
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    mmadden28 wrote: »
    Has it ever been discussed to reorient the side by side tweeters in the SDA 2's to be mounted vertically? Of course it would take a bit of woodworking but... Just curious.

    That is not something you want to do.

    I know of at least one person that removed the dimensional tweeter completely, then removed the stereo tweeter and made inserts to cover both holes. They then made a new hole at the top, between the drivers and remounted the stereo tweeter at that location. I believe some reworking of the crossover is needed due to the removal of the dimensional tweeter.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,799
    edited August 2010
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    kjgarrison wrote: »
    I haven't found a specific "how to" on the Dynamat yet

    You want to use Dynamat Extreme. You cut strips to apply on the steel spokes of the mid-drivers and PR's. You do not apply it to the rim/lip of the baskets.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited August 2010
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    F1nut wrote: »
    Was that before or after you installed the RD0198-1 in the top position? If before, you're the first person I've heard report a delay/echo between the top and bottom tweeter.

    I did not pay close attention with all 4 original SL2000's when I first purchased as I immediately set out to upgrade.

    Versus my 2B's, and after Ben upgraded, I installed 4 new RDO194-1's and noticed the difference, and also after replacing the 4.4 cap with a 5.8 and installing 4 new RDO198-1's as they are today.

    I know I'm not doing a great job of explaining what I'm hearing, and it is an extremely subtle difference from the clarity of the single tweeter 2B's. I've always assumed was due to the SDA SRS 2's two tweeter design.
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,799
    edited August 2010
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    I don't know Greg, it's not something I have ever heard, nor anyone else that I can recall.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • kjgarrison
    kjgarrison Posts: 17
    edited August 2010
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    inspiredsports parts list shows a 5.8uF Sonicap for the TL upgrade (among other things of course.)

    I have two questions.

    One, I have not been able to find a 5.8uF Sonicap (or any good cap at 5.8uF for that matter.) Did he use the 5.6uF, the 6.0uF?

    Two, is there any advantage in going higher up the quality chain for these than Sonicaps (such as Clarity caps, AmpOhm, etc?)
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  • mmadden28
    mmadden28 Posts: 4,283
    edited August 2010
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    kjgarrison wrote: »
    inspiredsports parts list shows a 5.8uF Sonicap for the TL upgrade (among other things of course.)

    I have two questions.

    One, I have not been able to find a 5.8uF Sonicap (or any good cap at 5.8uF for that matter.) Did he use the 5.6uF, the 6.0uF?

    Two, is there any advantage in going higher up the quality chain for these than Sonicaps (such as Clarity caps, AmpOhm, etc?)

    Soniccraft will make a 5.8uF (or any custom value within the range avail)--I was quoted $14 on the 5.8uF.
    ____________________
    This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.

    HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
    2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
    Pool: Atrium 60's/45's
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