DB840 sub in LSI15's replace the stock 8"driver!!!!!

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Comments

  • cbow8cbow8 Posts: 306
    edited December 2012
    i hooked up my lsi15s today. they have crossover mods and the db840. sound good to me. its about the perfect blend for a nice rich sound without being boomy and annoying. i dont think id want anymore bass from that model of speaker. db840 is plenty of sub for this application.im running somewhere around 850 watts to them and havent heard any distortion or sign of being a weak link. those are my thoughts about this mod. thanks guys have a happy new year!!
  • zeppelin2zeppelin2 Posts: 13
    edited May 2013
    Can we get some long-term impressions from those that made the db840 swap?

    Has anybody reverted back to the stock woofers?
  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 14,819
    edited May 2013
    Lol the lack of posts after doing the mod are due to the members enjoying music too much to post lol.

    They sound MUCH better. I sold off my stock woofers and haven't looked back.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • jon sjon s Posts: 922
    edited May 2013
    changing the woofes made the bass a lot tighter... The original drivers tended to be a bit boomy.
  • Jer.WarJer.War Posts: 180
    edited May 2013
    Definitely worth doing. The bass is a lot tighter! The mod is cheap and easy to do so it is a no brainer. Sounds EVEN better after upgrading the crossovers :)

    [The Ever-Evolving System

    LSI15's (PNF Symphony cabels, modded X-Over and subs), LSIC, LSI7's, Rega Apollo CDP (PNF ICON ICs, modified PS cct.), Yamaha RXV-1700 w/ ipod dock, B&K REF200.2 (fronts) Samsung BDP-1600, XBOX360, Patriot Box Office Media Player, 42" Samsung LCD.
  • hochpt21hochpt21 Posts: 4,859
    edited May 2013
    FINALLY pulled the trigger. Have owned the 15's for over a year now, so figured it was time. Under 90 bones. Will be here Friday.
    2 Channel
    Turntable - Pro-Ject 2.9 Wood/Grado Gold Cartridge
    Phono Stage - PS Audio GCPH
    Preamplifier - Dared SL-2000A
    Amplifier - Parasound HCA-1500a
    Speakers - GoldenEar Triton 2
  • jon sjon s Posts: 922
    edited May 2013
    You won't regret the upgrade... the only thing you'll regret is why you waited so long....
  • ZLTFULZLTFUL Posts: 4,169
    edited May 2013
    Where did you find then for under $90? I keep finding em for between $110-$120...
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
    2 Channel: Silverline Audio Sonatina MKI, Monitor 5 Series II, DIY Seas based bookies
    LR 2 Channel: LSi7, DSW-MP2000
    HT: JTR Triple 8 LCRs, DIYSG Volt 8LX Surrounds, DIYSG Volt 6LX Atmos, 6 SI HT-18D2 Subs
    Guest BR 2 Channel: Swans D1080MKII
    Deck: Pyle BT Speaker pair with upgraded woofers
  • ZLTFULZLTFUL Posts: 4,169
    edited May 2013
    Nevermind...found em on Amazon with free shipping.
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
    2 Channel: Silverline Audio Sonatina MKI, Monitor 5 Series II, DIY Seas based bookies
    LR 2 Channel: LSi7, DSW-MP2000
    HT: JTR Triple 8 LCRs, DIYSG Volt 8LX Surrounds, DIYSG Volt 6LX Atmos, 6 SI HT-18D2 Subs
    Guest BR 2 Channel: Swans D1080MKII
    Deck: Pyle BT Speaker pair with upgraded woofers
  • hochpt21hochpt21 Posts: 4,859
    edited May 2013
    ZLTFUL wrote: »
    Nevermind...found em on Amazon with free shipping.

    Sorry...yes, Amazon.

    When I was looking a few months back they were in the $50-$60 range (each), but the price has dropped. Crutchfield now says discontinued product so that might have something to do with it.
    2 Channel
    Turntable - Pro-Ject 2.9 Wood/Grado Gold Cartridge
    Phono Stage - PS Audio GCPH
    Preamplifier - Dared SL-2000A
    Amplifier - Parasound HCA-1500a
    Speakers - GoldenEar Triton 2
  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 14,819
    edited May 2013
    hochpt21 wrote: »
    Sorry...yes, Amazon.

    When I was looking a few months back they were in the $50-$60 range (each), but the price has dropped. Crutchfield now says discontinued product so that might have something to do with it.

    Yeah they are discontinued, I may snag another set to have in case I get another st of 15's at a later date.

    Also the ones on Amazon are probably NOT from a authorized vendor so they are cheaper. Not sure thats a biggie as they dont get nearly as much wear/tear in the LSi's as they would in a car.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • hochpt21hochpt21 Posts: 4,859
    edited May 2013
    changing the woofes made the bass a lot tighter... The original drivers tended to be a bit boomy.
    Definitely worth doing. The bass is a lot tighter! The mod is cheap and easy to do so it is a no brainer. Sounds EVEN better after upgrading the crossovers :)

    Just got 'em in about 30 min ago. The comments above are consistant with my initial reaction. I don't necessarily notice an increase in bass...maybe slightly deeper, but it seems much more natural. It seems to blend better with the rest of the music.

    Looking forward to getting more listening time.

    ...and yes...even for scaredy me doing my first mod...it was very easy.

    Special thanks to Dan for taking the time on the phone this morning when I thought I effed something up.
    2 Channel
    Turntable - Pro-Ject 2.9 Wood/Grado Gold Cartridge
    Phono Stage - PS Audio GCPH
    Preamplifier - Dared SL-2000A
    Amplifier - Parasound HCA-1500a
    Speakers - GoldenEar Triton 2
  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 14,819
    edited May 2013
    hochpt21 wrote: »
    Special thanks to Dan for taking the time on the phone this morning when I thought I effed something up.

    No worries man. Now get off the forum and back to "ENJOYING THE MUSIC!!!!!!!!!!!!"
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • hochpt21hochpt21 Posts: 4,859
    edited June 2013
    I've got some more listening time on these puppies.

    Bass is weightier and tighter. Maybe a hair deeper, but not much. The biggest thing IMO, it is much better blended with the rest of the speaker.

    The bass is the one MINOR grip I have had with these speakers since I got them last year.

    I am truly amazed at the SQ difference for the price.

    Thanks to all who inspired me.
    2 Channel
    Turntable - Pro-Ject 2.9 Wood/Grado Gold Cartridge
    Phono Stage - PS Audio GCPH
    Preamplifier - Dared SL-2000A
    Amplifier - Parasound HCA-1500a
    Speakers - GoldenEar Triton 2
  • vmaxervmaxer Posts: 3,989
    edited June 2013
    I bought a set from Amazon, will be a while before I install them.
    Pio Elete Pro 520
    Panamax 5400-EX
    Sunfire TGP 5
    Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
    PS Audio GCPH phono pre
    Sunfire CG 200 X 5
    Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
    OPPO BDP-83 SE
    SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
    Ctr CS1000p
    Sur - FX1000 x 4
    SUB - SVS PB2-Plus

    Workkout room:
    Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
    Onkyo TX-DS898
    GFA 555
    Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
    Ft - SDA 1C

    Not being used:
    RTi 38's -4
    RT55i's - 2
    RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
    LSI 15's
    CSi40
    PSW 404
  • hochpt21hochpt21 Posts: 4,859
    edited June 2013
    vmaxer wrote: »
    I bought a set from Amazon, will be a while before I install them.

    Why?? Might I ask...will it be a while before you install them.
    2 Channel
    Turntable - Pro-Ject 2.9 Wood/Grado Gold Cartridge
    Phono Stage - PS Audio GCPH
    Preamplifier - Dared SL-2000A
    Amplifier - Parasound HCA-1500a
    Speakers - GoldenEar Triton 2
  • vmaxervmaxer Posts: 3,989
    edited June 2013
    hochpt21 wrote: »
    Why?? Might I ask...will it be a while before you install them.

    I have had them packed up in the boxes for a couple of years, been playing more with the SDA's lately. I will do it at some point, they were about to run out if these so I bought a couple. I do like the LSI's, just been very busy with work.
    Pio Elete Pro 520
    Panamax 5400-EX
    Sunfire TGP 5
    Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
    PS Audio GCPH phono pre
    Sunfire CG 200 X 5
    Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
    OPPO BDP-83 SE
    SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
    Ctr CS1000p
    Sur - FX1000 x 4
    SUB - SVS PB2-Plus

    Workkout room:
    Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
    Onkyo TX-DS898
    GFA 555
    Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
    Ft - SDA 1C

    Not being used:
    RTi 38's -4
    RT55i's - 2
    RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
    LSI 15's
    CSi40
    PSW 404
  • hochpt21hochpt21 Posts: 4,859
    edited June 2013
    vmaxer wrote: »
    I have had them packed up in the boxes for a couple of years, been playing more with the SDA's lately. I will do it at some point, they were about to run out if these so I bought a couple. I do like the LSI's, just been very busy with work.

    10-4...

    Hope you get to it sooner vs. later. I don't know why I waited almost a year to do it.

    And as the rest said...very easy to do. Only took me 2 hours and messing with the dynomat took the longest.
    2 Channel
    Turntable - Pro-Ject 2.9 Wood/Grado Gold Cartridge
    Phono Stage - PS Audio GCPH
    Preamplifier - Dared SL-2000A
    Amplifier - Parasound HCA-1500a
    Speakers - GoldenEar Triton 2
  • OcezamOcezam Posts: 52
    edited June 2013
    With these speakers being discontinued for a while now, maybe interest in this mod is waning. But for what it's worth, I just did mine today. Luckily the db840's themselves have also been discontinued and the price seems to keep dropping. I bought mine for $43 ea w/ free shipping.

    The install is straight forward. Like another person said earlier, I left the gaskets on mine and didn't use any other sealant. This way the driver will not set all the way flush with the metal collar in the opening, but using all eight screws (supplied with my drivers) I've got a good seal and it looks great! The grills on mine came on and off easily.

    The sound is significantly better. There's a bit more bass, but it is much tighter and cleaner bass. I'd say this mod is easily worth $200-$300 IMHO. For the $85 bucks I spent it is really incredible!

    Peace
    "The ear is not a microphone, the brain is not a tape recorder, and measurements are limited in describing subjective quality." Nelson Pass

    2 Channel:
    XDA-2, Modified Jolida JD502P (2 ea), Polk LSiM705
    Theater:
    Onkyo TX-NR3009 with 9 active channels, Emotiva XPA-5, MartinLogan Encore TF Center Channel, Polk M70 Mains, M40 Wides, M30 Heights, FXi A4 Surrounds, Custom built 18" sub, Mitsu 73" DLP
  • PubFictionPubFiction Posts: 106
    edited August 2013
    Does anyone know what the market value for the OEM drivers that the DB840 replaces might be? I don't really want to hang on to them and have them taking up space so I want to dump them on CL or something.

    Second I did this mod and there are a couple comments.
    1 the rubber surround, I didn't get it at first and started thinking something had changed because the rubber was hard and around the speaker like a tire. I thought it might be metal. So I decided to install them and only after I saw it flex when I was putting in the screws did I realize it was rubber. lol probably stupid but I have never done much speaker work before.

    Second mortite is basically nonexistent in any major stores I did find it at a small local ace hardware though. A

    Third the speaker cabinet being the wood it is stripped one of the screws so I just bought new 8x 1 inch screws, but I couldn't find any in black.

    Fourth I mentioned the looks of this mod and have to say after doing it, people forget it you wont be able to keep the grill off the speaker just isn't well enough finished on the cabinet side or without the rubber surround.
  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 14,819
    edited August 2013
    ^ I think I got 40 bucks for both of my woofers. There really isnt much demand for them.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • PubFictionPubFiction Posts: 106
    edited August 2013
    http://rudy.sloup.org/projects/LSi15_Modifications/

    I took some pictures while I was doing the mod because someone here had asked and TBH it's always a lot easier if you see how its done. It would have saved me at least 1 mistake.
    It would be great if the OP could put this link in the OP.

    If anyone has anything else they think should be mentioned go ahead and say it and I will try to amend it. Its a lot easier than reading this whole thread.

    And thanks for the info enders
  • zeppelin2zeppelin2 Posts: 13
    edited December 2013
    I did some measurements comparing the stock woofer to the db840 if anybody is still interested!

    My bedroom measures 14 x 12 x 7.5 feet. It has some bass trapping in the corners and some absorption along the front and side walls. The left speaker is 43" from the side wall, the right speaker is 75" from the other side wall, and both speakers are 25.5" from the back wall (as measured from the tweeter). The mic was placed at the point of the equilateral triangle formed by the speakers at tweeter height.

    Equipment used was a Behringer ECM-8000 omnidirectional measurement microphone, Behringer Xenyx 802 mic preamp, and Room EQ Wizard v5.01 beta 17 build 2967. The ECM-8000 calibration profile (taken from the Home Theater Shack forum) was loaded. I still haven't figured out why there's a sharp drop in the SPL response for all my measurements after about 8KHz, but it shouldn't really affect the results of this test.


    Pink Noise

    Before I post the measurements, here's some quick results from playing some pink noise and measuring the output:

    stock woofer, left speaker: 66.8 dB
    db840, left speaker: 66.8 dB

    stock woofer, right speaker: 66.0 dB
    db840, right speaker: 66.3 dB

    stock woofer, both speakers: 72.0 dB
    db840, both speakers: 72.2 dB

    So there's no real drop in efficiency, it's actually pretty well the same after the swap.


    Measurements

    And now for the measurements comparing the stock woofer vs. the db840. Click the images for a bigger size.

    SPL

    20-20 000Hz, 1/3 smoothing


    9fjb.png

    Figure 1. Left speaker, stock woofer in blue, db840 in green


    wg20.png

    Figure 2. Right speaker, stock woofer in purple, db840 in yellow


    kscs.png

    Figure 3. Both speakers, stock woofer in blue, db840 in green


    20-400Hz, 1/48 smoothing


    fnto.png

    Figure 4. Left speaker, stock woofer in blue, db840 in green


    if4u.png

    Figure 5. Right speaker, stock woofer in purple, db840 in yellow


    f74h.png

    Figure 6. Both speakers, stock woofer in blue, db840 in green


    Waterfall


    lypk.png

    Figure 7. Left speaker, stock woofer


    5gtc.png

    Figure 8. Left speaker, db840



    cwqz.png

    Figure 9. Right speaker, stock woofer


    jonj.png

    Figure 10. Right speaker, db840


    q1li.png

    Figure 11. Both speakers, stock woofer


    c487.png

    Figure 12. Both speakers, db840

    Thoughts

    Well, compared with the stock woofer, it seems that the db840 affects the response slightly (i.e. usually less than a dB or so) from about 1kHz downwards, with the most noticeable differences happening between roughly 80Hz and 350Hz. In this latter region, there can be up to a 5.5dB drop in output with the db840.

    Interestingly, the db840 doesn't seem to dig any deeper as some have noticed, as the -3dB and -10dB points are pretty much the same for both!

    The waterfalls don't really show quicker decay times for the db840.. in some cases (e.g. 43Hz), the decay is actually longer. Note that 43Hz represents the interaction of both the length and width modes of my room.
  • FaceFace Posts: 14,712
    edited December 2013
    You really should have done nearfield measuring. And even with shallow slopes, it shouldn't be affect response up to 1K.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
  • zeppelin2zeppelin2 Posts: 13
    edited December 2013
    How would you define nearfield measuring? As it was, the mic was 49" from each speaker. I considered doing the measurements on-axis with the woofer at a distance of 1m, but decided against it as it would have put me right in the room's corner at my left speaker (room modes would be at their worst and I imagine would skew results quite badly), while I wouldn't even have access to that position at the right speaker due to a desk being in the way.

    I don't seem to be able to edit my above post, but all shown measurements are the result of the average of four consecutive measurements. The 1dB differences up to 1KHz may be measurement error, or they may be real. I can't confirm either way!
  • nhhiepnhhiep Posts: 866
    edited December 2013
    Looking at the results above, does it still make sense to swap? or is it actually a downgrade?
  • halo71halo71 Posts: 4,380
    edited December 2013
    ^Thats what I was thinking as well!
    --Gary--
  • zeppelin2zeppelin2 Posts: 13
    edited December 2013
    So here's the thing..

    I originally swapped the stock woofer for the db840 about a month ago and only a couple of days ago reverted back to the stock woofers to see which I preferred. Right away, I noticed that the bass took a turn for the worse. It seemed to hang around longer and was more indistinct than with the db840 in place. The stock woofers almost seemed to cloud up the rest of the spectrum, if that makes sense. So I decided I'd do some measurements while the stock woofers were still in place and then make the switch back to the db840.

    My preference? I definitely prefer the db840. There seems to be less bloat, which correlates with the reduction in mid-bass as per the measurements, and strangely, they do seem to have more low-end grunt even though the measurements don't show them playing any lower.

    I've always been unhappy with the quality of bass that the LSi15s put out and swapping back to the stock woofers reminded me at how much I disliked it. I still don't consider the bass great (or even good) with the db840s in place, but it's at least something that I can live with, especially when playing analog sources (like vinyl or FM broadcasts on a vintage tuner).
  • FaceFace Posts: 14,712
    edited December 2013
    zeppelin2 wrote: »
    How would you define nearfield measuring? As it was, the mic was 49" from each speaker. I considered doing the measurements on-axis with the woofer at a distance of 1m, but decided against it as it would have put me right in the room's corner at my left speaker (room modes would be at their worst and I imagine would skew results quite badly), while I wouldn't even have access to that position at the right speaker due to a desk being in the way.

    I don't seem to be able to edit my above post, but all shown measurements are the result of the average of four consecutive measurements. The 1dB differences up to 1KHz may be measurement error, or they may be real. I can't confirm either way!
    Nearfield would be a few inches to a foot away. It takes the room out of the equation. What you measured was how each woofer interacts with the room in that section of the room.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
  • dcluleydcluley Posts: 2
    edited December 2013
    I just did this swap as well, and apples to oranges (without tuning anything else) the db840 sounded faster and tighter/cleaner than the stock, but overall the speakers standalone sounded like they had less frequency response to my ears in full stereo mode. When used with my supercube sub, the system sounded better for HT in 5.1, but stereo electronic music sounded like it was missing some low end (although tighter hits) on first listen with no tweaks. I have to try to re-eq and room correct after burn in to see if it was really worth the effort and $100 bucks.
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