Krell 400xi vs Rotel RC1070 + Rotel RB1090?

Joey_V
Joey_V Posts: 8,553
edited June 2010 in Electronics
What do you guys think?

The Rotel RB1090 amp + RC1070 preamp combo vs the Krell Integrated 400xi?

The Rotel RB1090 is a monster of an amp and is a dual mono design with 2 torroidals and 2 power transformers... the L and R never meet essentially. I'm not altogether very familiar with the Krell though I've heard it power the Martin Logan Vantages before and it was a solid audition.

Here are some pics:

Krell:
image002.jpg
special__120_1.jpg
400xi.jpg

Rotel RB1090:
rb1090.jpg
rb1090no1.jpg
4f2acb2ee18182b3f1fb472ee68b3feb.JPG

I havent heard the 1090 yet but I have the 1070 and I enjoy its sonic presentation. I know the 1090 would be an upgrade with the same house sound of Rotel and I have a hard time justifying $2500 for the Krell especially when the Rotel looks a lot beefier and more "manly" judging by internals alone.

The Rotel is 380wpc @ 8ohms and 700wpc @ 4ohms (where my Vantage run at).... the Krell 400xi is 200wpc @ 8 and 400 wpc @ 4. Both are class AB.

What do you guys think?
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  • crazy
    crazy Posts: 443
    edited February 2006
    A friend of mine just bought the Krell Integrated 400xi and he was debating over Rotel seperates as well. Just based on what he said - there was no comparision - Krell won hands down. He is using them to drive his B&W 800's.
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  • mldennison
    mldennison Posts: 307
    edited February 2006
    wow, that is a pretty impressive engineering feat if the krell does sound better than the rotel. dont think even one of those transformers would fit into the krell box there. :eek:
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  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited February 2006
    ^^ Exactly what I was thinking. Very surprising to me that the Krell does a better job than the Rotel combination. Perhaps if you put them on some really demanding speakers so the Krell would run out of steam first...then maybe the Rotel would be better. How do they compare current wise?
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,553
    edited February 2006
    I really have a hard time believing that the Krell entry level bests the ultimate Rotel. The capacitors on the Rotel are massive and the dual mono design is superb. The Rotel has been highly reviewed, too.

    Let me correct myself, I have heard the 1090 on one occassion - powering some 802N - however, I wasnt very sold on them since they were powering BW-N which I dont really like and the guy put on mp3s.

    Anyway, the Krell seems to me like I would be paying alot for the name itself... rather than the parts inside.

    Not to discount those who think the Krell sounds better.
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  • 2+2
    2+2 Posts: 546
    edited February 2006
    Joey, I think the weakness of your Rotel combo is probably the preamp side. 1090 amp is the best Rotel has and has been received very well...RC1070 has been more mixed. If you can up the pre-amp to say...RC1090, then you probably have a great combo... Also, keep in mind the future if you ever consider upgrading to really hard speakers to drive, the Krell may not be enough (never heard it tho so take it for what it's worth).....
    System 1: Martin Logan Vantage, Rotel RC 1070, B&K Reference 200.2, Music Hall DAC 15.2, Yamaha 2300

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  • LuSh
    LuSh Posts: 887
    edited February 2006
    I can't compare Krell's intergrated vs separates but I can say this. After 3months of research and knowing that Krell took alot of heat for the Krell 500i intergrated (over $4000) I know the 400xi was a lost leader from them. I'm quite happy with mine. I decided long ago I didn't want to deal with additional interconnects and power cords. I'm considering an Elrod or Purist, if I had to deal with a pre/amp that is easily another grand gone in additional wires etc...perhaps I'm crazy in assuming a number like that for mere interconnects and PC's but that's an entirely new discussion that has been beaten to death.
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,553
    edited February 2006
    LuSh wrote:
    I can't compare Krell's intergrated vs separates but I can say this. After 3months of research and knowing that Krell took alot of heat for the Krell 500i intergrated (over $4000) I know the 400xi was a lost leader from them.

    Lush,

    What do you mean Lost Leader?

    Zero (Shawn.... er, Sean... hehehe),

    I'm gonna call you tomorrow night.... past 9p cuz that's when I get free minutes. Looking forward catching up with you and your ideas about this amp subject.
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,553
    edited February 2006
    Zero wrote:
    Joey,

    Looking forward to it. Not to speak for Lush - but what he just made a simple typing error. He meant to say loss-leader.

    A loss-leader product is one a company puts out that yeilds very little profit, at least in respect to their standard bottom line.

    Ah... lost leader and loss leader are two very different things.... cool cool.
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,589
    edited February 2006
    Wasn't the the infamous Krell integrated the KAV 300i?

    I agree with Sean, you can't judge the sound by the size, specs or look of the pieces. I can also say from personal experience that there are high end integrated amps that can perform at and far above separates in the same price range and then some.

    As always, it would be best if you could demo both set ups that you are considering before choosing.
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  • unc2701
    unc2701 Posts: 3,587
    edited February 2006
    Just to throw in my two cents, having heard a rotel combo (1090 and don't know which pre-), the krell 400xi and the Musical Fidelity A5, the rotel finished dead last in my mind. My preference was the A5, then the 400xi, and I didn't like the 1090 combo at all. This was on Wilson Watt/puppies and B&W 802's.
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  • LuSh
    LuSh Posts: 887
    edited February 2006
    Yes it was a typing error. Loss-leader.

    F1nut: Both the 300i and 500i (rare and expensive) were both huge flops for Krell. Having said that some say the 500i was one of the most overlooked amps during its run.
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  • kingkip
    kingkip Posts: 401
    edited February 2006
    Zero wrote:

    I have come to appreciate that until you get into the mega-buck range, integrated amps are really the way to go. That’s my preference. I’d rather pay for a high quality integrated than purchase lesser separate components.


    Not to hijack the thread, but Zero, why do you think that? This is a line of thought that I hadn't come across yet and I am intrigued. I don't have a lot of experience in the higher end, and this may influence the way I was thinking of going.

    Thanks in advance for any insight.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,589
    edited February 2006
    Lush, got it and thanks.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,197
    edited February 2006
    Go listen and bring home the one that sounds better. Forget about cap size, forget about how cool it looks. it matter what speakers your driving it with and how they pair up.
    Krell and Rotel are not in the same class. But that doesn't mean You have to like one or the other due to any reasons except sound quality and the ability to drive your speakers.

    Get off the forum and go listen

    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • gregure
    gregure Posts: 871
    edited February 2006
    Well, just to throw in one more zinger, I know that Gayle Saunders, owner of Martin Logan, uses Krell to power his E Statement 2 system in Kansas. If Krell is the choice of the makers of Martin Logan, I'm sure you'll be happy with the results on your own set of ML's. I'd go with with the Krell any day. It's really a steal in terms of price vs. performance.
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  • pjdami
    pjdami Posts: 1,894
    edited February 2006
    I think F1 and Mantis nailed it; you got to go demo both and in your own home if you can swing it on your speakers / room.

    Start saving for that Wadia cd player too.. Sweeeeet.
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  • crazy
    crazy Posts: 443
    edited February 2006
    A slightly off-topic question, but why are these soooo expensive??? They cannot be better than the Krell, can they?

    http://www.crutchfield.com/S-QoPhbDPWetN/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=10420&I=580TXNR1K

    http://www.crutchfield.com/S-QoPhbDPWetN/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=10420&I=033AV5805B
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  • unc2701
    unc2701 Posts: 3,587
    edited February 2006
    'cause people look at the back panel and say, "HOLY ****!"

    Still you'd be better off with $2k pre like anthem or b&k plus a $2k 7 channel amp, plus a couple Adcoms for the multiroom functions. That's just too much crap in one box for my taste.
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  • Ferres
    Ferres Posts: 310
    edited February 2006
    crazy wrote:
    A slightly off-topic question, but why are these soooo expensive??? They cannot be better than the Krell, can they?

    http://www.crutchfield.com/S-QoPhbDPWetN/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=10420&I=580TXNR1K

    http://www.crutchfield.com/S-QoPhbDPWetN/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=10420&I=033AV5805B


    It's really for people who want to try the high-end but are put off by the extra work in setting up separates. :p
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,589
    edited February 2006
    Crazy, that's very off topic. 2 channel and HT are very different animals.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

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  • miner
    miner Posts: 1,305
    edited February 2006
    The Rotel RC-1070 pre for $500 MSRP is hard to beat for the money. Sure, it may not be the best in class but I venture to say it is the best bang/$$ out there for a separate pre. The RC-1090 (now discontinued in US) is jsut a tad better sounding but more bells & whisltes. The RC-1070 is cleaner looking i my opinion. The RB-1090 has been touted as being the best sub-$2500 amp on the market. It all depends on your speaker choice. Best you can do is audition at your home if dealer will let you.
    [
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  • crazy
    crazy Posts: 443
    edited February 2006
    F1nut wrote:
    Crazy, that's very off topic. 2 channel and HT are very different animals.

    ah! Didn't realize. I guess that explains - my friends does have a stereo setup. So I assume he would need a surround processor to go 5.1, right?
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  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited February 2006
    Yup.
    George Grand wrote: »
    Jstas wrote: »
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
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  • Krazyz1
    Krazyz1 Posts: 256
    edited January 2010
    If you you go to Stereophile archives they did a shoot out on 1090 and a Krell. Both had great reviews but the Rotel won in the end for a couple reasons in reviewers eyes. Price difference , Amazing sound stage and vocal clarity. The Krell is no slouch and it was a cat's whisker division decision.
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  • math-geek
    math-geek Posts: 18
    edited June 2010
    Krazyz1 wrote: »
    If you you go to Stereophile archives they did a shoot out on 1090 and a Krell. Both had great reviews but the Rotel won in the end for a couple reasons in reviewers eyes. Price difference , Amazing sound stage and vocal clarity. The Krell is no slouch and it was a cat's whisker division decision.

    What preamp did they use with the Rotel? Sterophile is notorious for using an outrageous preamp with a fairly budget amp. The preamp makes a huge difference!

    I used my brothers Carver C1 preamp with a Carver TFM-75 with my Dynaudio Contour 1.3 SEs before I settled on the Krell 400xi. I am missing nothing and gained much!
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