Project - Infinate Baffle

RuSsMaN · June 2003

I decided for my latest creation to go as simple, and as cheap as possible. I have several 5 1/4" FR drivers I purchased from pe some time ago, closeout. The actual drivers I believe were slated for use in the rear-deck of certain GM sedans.

I'm still in the rough stage, only took a quick listen last night. I wasn't expecting much at all, honestly, just thought it would be a fun thing do one night while sluggin brews.

Parts used (so far)

2 x 2' by 2' pre-cut 1/2" plywood. $2.50 each
4 x 5 1/4" FR drivers from pe. $1.25 each
10 ft 16/2 lamp cord from Home Depot. $2.00
2 x spring clip terminals from pe. $.99 each

Total invested so far: $14

Driver specs, 4ohm, 15w continuous / 35max. Paper cone, center mounted whizzer cone, cloth surround. Freq response 80-18K.

I wired each side with 2 drivers, in series, for an avg 8ohm load. So far, they are quite impressive. The do vocals and strings like no tomorrow. I'm thoroughly pleased so far, they are actually listenable! The only 2 issues I've noticed so far is this bass is present, but thin (as expected with the specs and the IB design) and on dynamic passages, the highs seem to become a little edgy, sharp, harsh.

Next step, I'll throw some stain on, figure out how to make them stand up on their own, solder all the cord, and start looking at a Zobel network (to smooth the impedance curve - probably the cause of the harshness on certain passages).

More to come, as things progress. No, won't beat a $500 speaker, but it amazes me that they aren't THAT far off either.

Cheers,
Russ

RuSsMaN · June 2003

Rear shot.

HBombToo · June 2003

Thats really cool my friend!!!

If I tried something like that I'd be bleeding from the attack of the power tools.:p

HBomb

burdette · June 2003

Nice project. Full range drivers *really* have quite a cult following. The RS 8" gets used a lot, and there is a 'new' Pioneer 8" or 10" that is getting attention.

I've seen tweeters added, but crossed over very high, like at 15kHz or so, to add the top end but keep the crossover out of the midrange. Greatly reduces the demands on the tweeter which means you can probably use a cheapy. Same with the low.. add a sub crossed over at 80Hz to fill in the bottom end, but keep the crossover out of the more crowded range (like when you'd normally crossover a woofer at like 200Hz). Gives you almost the complete audio range with no crossover problems.

PE has a SHITLOAD of Onkyo closeouts, including 6x9, 6" and other sized full range drivers for $0.99 each, and a bunch of 3/8" mylar tweeters (including xover cap) for twenty four CENTS! They also have more of the 5.25" drivers you're using now.

Does it make a difference whether the drivers are situated horizontally or vertically?

faster100 · June 2003

Originally posted by ATCVenom
yep...looks like drivers nailed into a piece of wood.....

These not up your alley Atc??

RuSsMaN · June 2003

Actually Mark, they don't sell this particular driver anymore, part no was 269-457. I hear you on the Rat Shack following, I have some JBL 8"ers that were designed to be used in-ceiling, so I may give those a run after these are done.

As far as the side by side, good question, but it looked more like **** and my CRS+'s, so why not.

ATC, I actually cut and used some neoprene I had laying around for gaskets, and used speaker mounting screws from some Polk Monitor 8's.

Cheers,
Russ

gidrah · June 2003

Looking good. You should do the $.98 tweak and consider a couple coats of Damar to the cones. I might have to throw these together. It'll be good practice before doing the OB line arrays and the Straight 8s.

I'll probably just do a single driver though and start with 4" and work up from there. I've got a couple of 4", 6", 8" (EVs in the house), and a pair of 12"

TroyD · June 2003

Looks good for an outlay of about 15 bucks. I'm interested in hearing them myself. Way to get your DIY on, Russ.

Before you dismiss Russ's DIY efforts, I've seen some of them and they look pretty damn good. I've got a pair, or should I say will have a pair, of 3-ways he built going in to the garage rig when I get home....

BDT

Tour2ma · June 2003

Originally posted by TroyD
a pair, of 3-ways he built going in to the garage rig when I get home....

Damn, garage worthy? That good, huh?

TD, I think he's practicing for a pair of DIY DQ-10's here...

mantis · June 2003

Originally posted by Tour2ma
Damn, garage worthy? That good, huh?

TD, I think he's practicing for a pair of DIY DQ-10's here...

Look like the same built quality anyway..........

Tour2ma · June 2003

Dan,
Let me guess... you're not a DQ fan. Did I win?

Dr. Spec · June 2003

Russ:

This website has tons of cool stuff for IB fans. Neat project!

Doc

http://www.f20.parsimony.net/forum36475/

TroyD · June 2003

Tour,

Dan has never heard the DQ-10's. He doesn't like them based on A) how they look and

the fact that I seem to like them and C) liv4fam (who hasn't heard them either) dismisses them as well.

As far as the garage speaks go, I've not heard them yet, just goin off Russ's recommendation and that's good enough for me.

BDT

RuSsMaN · June 2003

Troy,

Your garage speaks are a 3-way, sealed box design.

I used a Dayton 12" woofer, Design Acoustics 5" midbass, and Design Acoustics 1" silk dome. I haven't decided if I'm going to go with the DA silk, or a Seas 1" metal dome.

The crossover is 2nd order, 12db/oct at 200Hz and 2000Hz, using Culver caps. There is also a 'toggle' L-pad for 0db, and -3db on the tweeter.

I wouldn't be suprised if we found something else, after you hear them - you might want them inside.

Tour,

Something I've noticed about *some* members is if it didn't come in a shiney new box, with a shiney new pricetag, or it was made more than 10 yrs ago, it must be dismissed. It's a shame really, because by not having an open mind (ears), you miss out on a LOT of good gear.

Dan,

Thanks for the compliment! I'm happy you think I've started to build my speakers as well as one of the most renown speakers - EVER. Thanks!

Cheers,
Russ

Tour2ma · June 2003

Russ,
My posts were in jest. If I struck a nerve, which is always more likely where personal effort is involved, I apologize.

In truth, I think your latest project is an interesting experiment, and God knows this old engineer loves a good experiment...

TroyD · June 2003

Tour,

Little history.....Dan and his partner liv4fam scoffed rather vociferously at the notion that the DQ-10 could be anything more than garage sale junk based primarily on it's physical appearance and the fact that I liked it and claimed that it could compete favorably with todays speakers. At the time, Dan had Dynaudio in his 'sole', I believe. If you do a search on Dahlquist or DQ-10, there is some pretty entertaining reading, mind you, neither of them had ever actually listened them.

My hackles would be raised a little if I posted a DIY project and it was scoffed at as 'drivers nailed into a piece of wood.....' as well.

BDT

RuSsMaN · June 2003

Tour,

No issues here brotha, I smiled right through your posts.

Doc,

Cool link, THANKS!

Got the Rosewood stain and 4% silver solder out, updates to follow.

Oh, I posted this on another forum also, and have been corrected - This is an *open baffle* (ob), not infinate baffle (ib). Infinate baffle can be a board, but it would be SO large, you couldn't fit it in your house. Infinate baffle can also be a sealed box, that is at least 4 x the Vas of the driver used.

Cheers,
Russ

TroyD · June 2003

open baffle......yeah, what were you thinking Cranius Maximus?

BDT

mantis · June 2003

OK,
as far as the DQ-10's go..well your right I have yeat to hear them.I have however seen them in person.The built quality was piss poor,they looked like someone in there garage put them together with a strange looking 5 way crossover.The DQ-10's had bad woofers.the surrounds where all rotted out.They where going in for service and I never got to hear the finished product.The customer picked them up before I had the chance to hear them.No other pairs has surfaced as my guy at the stereo exchange is going to call me when they do.

Russ,
It looks like a sheet of plywood with drivers cut into it.What can I say ...... I mean looks like your having fun and all...are these the very speaker we talked about in the past???I thought you built a closed cabnet.
As far as the DQ comment,I was just rolling with the thead.If you grill your DIY speakers,hell they might look the same...there/it's shaped the same with grills on...and all...

liv4fam · June 2003

What the .........................?

I LOVE the build quality.

Hey Russ. What kind of resonant problems did you run into because of the design of the cabinet?

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Man, when Mantis e-mailed me the link I thought whatever here comes another bonehead post from the Polk forum but goddamn that is F*ckin hilarious.

Keep up the good work Russ.

Let me know if you want to kick me in the head on general principle.

TroyD · June 2003

So, essentially, for the record, what you are saying is that you frankly have no clue as to what they sound like and that you are essentially judging a book by the cover?

I would submit that considering how the DQ-10 was specifically designed to be use a staggered baffle to achieve a specific purpose (time alignment) without the colorations of a cabinet, I really don't see how else he could have done it. Sure, maybe a nicer looking wood rather than masonite but, really, what would the point be? I think it's kind of funny how the Brits pooh-poohed the DQ-10 just because Dahlquist made it look like the Quad ESL.

BDT

TroyD · June 2003

Shouldn't you boys be celebrating Dan closing on his new home today??

BDT

faster100 · June 2003

I mean Russman didn't say he was doing a hands on test for POLK, in the production department.. He's just having fun and trying things out.. Far as what i think.. I like alot of old stuff and collect vintage items regularly.. However i don't care much for vintage speakers to own for myself.. I do like the looks of old jensen drivers and old polks to look at, However when it comes to trying stuff, building stuff and rigging stuff to try for fun I'M IN!!!

I love this stuff, course we may not display it in the family room or dedicated HT room, but in our cave as they call it, or our project room, garage, for me its called the COKE Room, my room of wonders and projects and stuff everywhere..

Get off his case!! ****, let people fool around and have fun, and instead we have dipshits like liv4fam and others making fun of people basically.. Me and Russ has had it out one time or so, but i can't see people stiring up crap for thier own personal enjoyment.. talk about who's the dick heads around here

mantis · June 2003

TroyD,
Just "BLEEP" yourself would yeah.Your words have no meaning to me.You are a true scumbag.......You are the only person on this forum I can honestly say I hate.With a passion might I add.

Liv4fam,
I don't know what he is building....he must be bored or just having fun.......whatever you know........

faster100,
If I recall on another thead.....Russ made a dickhead song correct???Looks to me like he supports dickhead things....he's probably eating this all up with a smile.

faster100 · June 2003

Originally posted by mantis

faster100,
If I recall on another thead.....Russ made a dickhead song correct???Looks to me like he supports dickhead things....he's probably eating this all up with a smile.

Yeah But Dan, are we kids or adults?? I have no beef with you or anyone personally lately, But seems to me when i was pissed and speaking what i fealt not to long ago, alot of people including you said, ah drop it, move on, Russ is great!! your wrong he's right type ****!! So now your here talking trash about his project for no reason just to start garbage, and yeah he might be laughing and he certainly don't need me to stick up for him, But i am here trying to be part of this group and become one of the fellow brothers, and i don't quite feel there yet but i think i'm getting there and i feel the need to step in when i disagree on something, it's my nature i do this, i but in some times on subjects i feel strongly about, i'm here deal with it, But the idle back and forth stuff between Dan, troy and russ is very tiresome..

hotwheelman · June 2003

Can't we just all get along..........please?

gidrah · June 2003

If he's laughing it's only at the unbelievers.

I'll tell you what he's doing. It's enjoying the hobby for what it is a hobby. Maybe it's his life, hobby, or in his soul. Either way he is doing what most people should do. Going back to basics. If you have and end result and go back to the beginning, you can iron things out much easier along the way.

Dan & Liv4Fam - For $1000 and a few hours of work I could put together a 2ch rig that would SLAUGHTER anything you can up up with for $2,500. I'm talking speakers, amp, wires and source. You can keep your styrofoam and owners manuals. I listen to music. Maybe you should too.

Russ - Are those 3-ways the ones you were looking for a crossover (for your grandmother) for? I have some RS 3-way XOs I just picked up on close-out.

Edit for typo.

Tour2ma · June 2003

Originally posted by gidrah
I'll tell you what he's doing. It's enjoying the hobby for what it is a hobby. My it's his life, hobby, or in his soul. Either way he is doing what most people should do. Going back to basics. If you have and end result and go back to the beginning, you can iron things out much easier along the way.

Damn that was well put...

VR3 · June 2003

Dan & Liv4Fam - For $1000 and a few hours of work I could put together a 2ch rig that would SLAUGHTER anything you can up up with for $2,500. I'm talking speakers, amp, wires and source. You can keep your styrofoam and owners manuals. I listen to music. Maybe you should too.

HE** YES!!!!!!!!

gidrah · June 2003

I'll give you an extra $500

RuSsMaN · June 2003

Update:

Did a little research on comb effects and filtering tonight. I tried some basic Zobel configs, which are difficult with 2 drivers in series. I wanted to be extra careful to keep the amp 'happy', so I only tried some caps between the pos/neg on the first driver in the series.

From my reading, and chatting with other ib/ob builders, having the 2 drivers side by side is what may be causing some of the high end harshness, when driven hard (combing). I'm looking at a couple solutions, I noticed an improvement by simply 'veiling' one of the drivers with some semi-transparent cloth.

However, from both experiments with a basic Zobel and comb effects, I still think they sound best without either.

Hopefully more pics tomorrow, they should be nearing completion, I'm also trying to get the angle of incident just right.

Next step will be an ob woofer choked around 80/hz 12db/oct (probably a cheap dvc with as high a Qts as possible) to fill out the 1/2 octave below what the current drivers just can't reach. I still plan to keep the Ob's crossover-less.

Cheers,
Russ

Project - Infinate Baffle

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