Harman Kardon AVR-247

Lowell_M
Lowell_M Posts: 1,660
edited June 2009 in Electronics
I'm frustrated that my receiver is a little behind the times now that I have Bluray, so I have a question for you H/K freaks.

I have a Playstation 3. If I had an H/K AVR-247, would the DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD make it to the receiver and out of my speakers somehow? The 247 doesn't have DTS-HD or Dolby TrueHD decoding, but the Playstation does. The 247 has HDMI, but I am somewhat unfamiliar with out the the uncompressed DTS and Dolby gets from the PS3 to the receiver and out the speaks.

Does the PS3 simply send a multichannel, uncompressed bit stream though the HDMI? What does the receiver do with it then?

Or would I have to have the newer AVR-254?

Since I have the ADCOM GFA-7000 as my amp, I could sell the AVR-635 and buy a refurb AVR-247, but only want to do it if I would get the master audio sound quality.
HT
RTi70 mains
CSi30 center
RTi28 Rears
Velodyne CHT-12
H/K AVR-247
ADCOM GFA-7000
Samsung PN58B860
Playstation 3
2-Channel
Polk Audio LSi15's
Rotel RCD-1072
Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
ADCOM GFA-555
Signal Cable Analog II IC's
Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables
Post edited by Lowell_M on
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Comments

  • dkg999
    dkg999 Posts: 5,647
    edited January 2009
    I would buy an Emotiva ;) They seem to be all the rage now! I know how trendy you like to be :p
    DKG999
    HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED

    Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC
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  • nikolas812
    nikolas812 Posts: 2,915
    edited January 2009
    I'm curious about this too...

    I just bought a HK AVR254 and wonder if I need it. I was looking at the 247 before I bought the 254. I also have a PS3. But because I am so impatient. I just went ahead and bought the 254 just to be safe. I wonder if I could have got the same performance out of the 247? It would have been about half the price of the 254.




    Nick
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  • nikolas812
    nikolas812 Posts: 2,915
    edited January 2009
    .......
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  • Lowell_M
    Lowell_M Posts: 1,660
    edited January 2009
    dkg999 wrote: »
    I would buy an Emotiva ;) They seem to be all the rage now! I know how trendy you like to be :p

    Ahhhh... The good conversations you missed last night
    HT
    RTi70 mains
    CSi30 center
    RTi28 Rears
    Velodyne CHT-12
    H/K AVR-247
    ADCOM GFA-7000
    Samsung PN58B860
    Playstation 3
    2-Channel
    Polk Audio LSi15's
    Rotel RCD-1072
    Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
    ADCOM GFA-555
    Signal Cable Analog II IC's
    Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables
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  • dkg999
    dkg999 Posts: 5,647
    edited January 2009
    I just wish you would buy some Emotiva gear so I can see if it's any good :D
    DKG999
    HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED

    Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC
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  • timlitton
    timlitton Posts: 289
    edited January 2009
    From what I understand, the PS3 HAS to handle the decoding as it does NOT bitstream the DTS or Dolby data to a decoder inside a newer decoder-equipped receiver. So, yes, you will hear DTS-HD but your little DTS-HD light won't turn on in receivers that are capable of on-board decoding. Just set the PS3 up to send PCM data to the reciever through your HDMI cable.
    Slowly emerging from the 90's
    Fronts: Polk LSi15's
    Center: Polk CS350ls
    Pre: Sony STRDA555ES
    Amp: Rotel RMB-1075
    Sub: Velodyne SPL-1000
    TV: 46" Sharp Aquos LCD
    Dust magnet: Sony PS3
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  • Lowell_M
    Lowell_M Posts: 1,660
    edited January 2009
    timlitton wrote: »
    From what I understand, the PS3 HAS to handle the decoding as it does NOT bitstream the DTS or Dolby data to a decoder inside a newer decoder-equipped receiver. So, yes, you will hear DTS-HD but your little DTS-HD light won't turn on in receivers that are capable of on-board decoding. Just set the PS3 up to send PCM data to the reciever through your HDMI cable.

    I'm a little ignorant here, so lets continue this... What does the receiver do with the PCM data, then? Is PCM just a digital bitstream that goes through the DAC's of the AVR? The PS3 decodes into PCM?
    HT
    RTi70 mains
    CSi30 center
    RTi28 Rears
    Velodyne CHT-12
    H/K AVR-247
    ADCOM GFA-7000
    Samsung PN58B860
    Playstation 3
    2-Channel
    Polk Audio LSi15's
    Rotel RCD-1072
    Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
    ADCOM GFA-555
    Signal Cable Analog II IC's
    Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables
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  • timlitton
    timlitton Posts: 289
    edited January 2009
    You've got it.

    The PS3 provides options for either "Bitstream" or "Linear PCM" when outputing the audio signal. This option is located in the "Settings->BD/DVD Settings->BD/DVD Audio Output Format(HDMI)" and "Settings->BD/DVD Settings->BD Audio Output Format (Optical)" settings of your XMB.

    Linear PCM is audio data that's in it's pure digital form, ready for a D/A conversion into analog for the speakers. If "Bitstream" option is selected, the PS3 will take this encoded and compressed audio and send it untouched to the HDMI or TOSLINK cable to an external decoder. Your AVR handles decoding duties and down converts the data to PCM on its own. Then it travels to the DAC and out to the speakers.
    Slowly emerging from the 90's
    Fronts: Polk LSi15's
    Center: Polk CS350ls
    Pre: Sony STRDA555ES
    Amp: Rotel RMB-1075
    Sub: Velodyne SPL-1000
    TV: 46" Sharp Aquos LCD
    Dust magnet: Sony PS3
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  • Lowell_M
    Lowell_M Posts: 1,660
    edited January 2009
    Ok... Cool. I just may go for one of those AVR 247's. So, what input does the AVR get set to to process the PCM info? Is there essentially 6 Channel Direct HDMI input or something?
    HT
    RTi70 mains
    CSi30 center
    RTi28 Rears
    Velodyne CHT-12
    H/K AVR-247
    ADCOM GFA-7000
    Samsung PN58B860
    Playstation 3
    2-Channel
    Polk Audio LSi15's
    Rotel RCD-1072
    Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
    ADCOM GFA-555
    Signal Cable Analog II IC's
    Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables
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  • PSOVLSK
    PSOVLSK Posts: 5,372
    edited January 2009
    This may not apply since you'll be outputting via HDMI, but FYI in case you're getting insufficient lower end. My Blu-ray player decodes and sends the signal via 7.1 analog outs. I wasn't getting any bass, but a thread on here the other day suggested bumping up the bass on the AVR. Now it works like a charm.
    Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
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  • Lowell_M
    Lowell_M Posts: 1,660
    edited January 2009
    My reply from H/K Technical support about the AVR247...

    Hi Aaron,

    The digital HD signal coming from the Playstation via HDMI still
    needs to be handled as that signal type within the receiver. If a
    BluRay player decodes the HD signal itself, then it would have 6/8
    channel analog audio outputs available. The AVR247 will not decode the
    HD audio signal. If standard DD or DTS is available in the signal, then
    it will default to that format. Otherwise, no audio will play. If the
    Playstation drops the signal down to a SD format, then it will play but
    it will not be in the lossless HD format. "
    HT
    RTi70 mains
    CSi30 center
    RTi28 Rears
    Velodyne CHT-12
    H/K AVR-247
    ADCOM GFA-7000
    Samsung PN58B860
    Playstation 3
    2-Channel
    Polk Audio LSi15's
    Rotel RCD-1072
    Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
    ADCOM GFA-555
    Signal Cable Analog II IC's
    Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables
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  • timlitton
    timlitton Posts: 289
    edited January 2009
    I'm not familiar with the details of your specific model of reciever, but it sounds like tech support is telling you it isn't capable of handling 5.1 or 7.1 channels of PCM data. Unfortunately, the Ps3 won't transmit this info as multi-channel analog data - but I doubt you'd really want it to anyway.

    That's too bad as many PS3 users have been able to use the lossless formats even before most recievers offered decoding capabilities.
    Slowly emerging from the 90's
    Fronts: Polk LSi15's
    Center: Polk CS350ls
    Pre: Sony STRDA555ES
    Amp: Rotel RMB-1075
    Sub: Velodyne SPL-1000
    TV: 46" Sharp Aquos LCD
    Dust magnet: Sony PS3
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  • Lowell_M
    Lowell_M Posts: 1,660
    edited January 2009
    I'm really confused now. I did find on another forum where people are using the 247 with a playstation and when you play a blueray disc, the AVR says "Multichannel PCM" on the front as opposed to DTS or Dolby Digital, etc. So it does sound like the receiver is capable of doing what I want it to and the HK customer service guy doesn't know what he's talking about. ...For the record, I had trouble with my AVR635 a while back and initially had contact with the same guy who is responding to my request about the 247 and he was a pain in the ****. I was able to get connected to another customer service guy who was very helpful.

    So, isn't there anybody on here who is play blue rays on a PS3 through a H/K AVR-247 or 347?

    Thanks, Aaron
    HT
    RTi70 mains
    CSi30 center
    RTi28 Rears
    Velodyne CHT-12
    H/K AVR-247
    ADCOM GFA-7000
    Samsung PN58B860
    Playstation 3
    2-Channel
    Polk Audio LSi15's
    Rotel RCD-1072
    Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
    ADCOM GFA-555
    Signal Cable Analog II IC's
    Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables
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  • SEH
    SEH Posts: 91
    edited January 2009
    a_mattison wrote: »
    So it does sound like the receiver is capable of doing what I want it to and the HK customer service guy doesn't know what he's talking about. ...

    Yes, you are correct. That's a dumb tech support guy. The 247 does multichannel PCM over HDMI.
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  • Lowell_M
    Lowell_M Posts: 1,660
    edited January 2009
    SEH wrote: »
    Yes, you are correct. That's a dumb tech support guy. The 247 does multichannel PCM over HDMI.

    Ok... And the AVR doesnt' do any further goofy surround processing of the signal other than sending to the DAC, right? And this would be a better solution than toslink and only having DTS and Dolby Digital?

    I'm trying to be triple extra sure before I sell my beloved AVR-635.
    HT
    RTi70 mains
    CSi30 center
    RTi28 Rears
    Velodyne CHT-12
    H/K AVR-247
    ADCOM GFA-7000
    Samsung PN58B860
    Playstation 3
    2-Channel
    Polk Audio LSi15's
    Rotel RCD-1072
    Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
    ADCOM GFA-555
    Signal Cable Analog II IC's
    Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables
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  • SEH
    SEH Posts: 91
    edited January 2009
    a_mattison wrote: »
    Ok... And the AVR doesnt' do any further goofy surround processing of the signal other than sending to the DAC, right?

    I think it can if you want it to, but there's nothing going on that's undefeatable .
    And this would be a better solution than toslink and only having DTS and Dolby Digital?

    Yes, it would be the new HD codecs.
    I'm trying to be triple extra sure before I sell my beloved AVR-635.

    I'd read the owner's thread at avsforum. It does what you want. It was also very buggy when it came out, but I think they fixed things with upgraded fw.
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  • DannyD
    DannyD Posts: 133
    edited January 2009
    I have a HK247 and a PS3 and I'Ve been enjoying Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master for quite awhile now. You need a HDMI from the PS3 to a HDMI input on the Harman then HDMI out of the Harmon to HDMI in on the TV. SEt the PS3 to output Linear PCM and your good to go. It will say Multichannel PCM on the front of your 247. To confirm it's hooked up right, While playing a Bluray, hit select on the PS32 remote and It will say in the top right corner what audio codec you are listening to. VERY IMPORTANT...make sure you have the latest software update for your HK247. It's available on there website. Cheers.
    Fronts: RTI10's
    Center: CSIA6
    Rears: RTIA3's
    Sub: 15" Velodyne DLS5000R x2 Stacked:D:D:D
    Amp: Marantz MM-9000 150wpc (bi-amped for RTI10's) and CSIA6
    Blu-Ray: PS3
    Harman Kardon AVR247
    Monster Cables
    Signal Analog II IC's
    Panamax MP-5300 Power Conditioner
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  • Lowell_M
    Lowell_M Posts: 1,660
    edited January 2009
    For what it's worth...Below is the response I got back after I emailed the tech support person I dealt with before from HK who was actually helpful as opposed to the guy in the posts above that didn't know what the hell he was talking about....

    "Hi Aaron,
    Yes, the AVR 247 will accept multichannel LPCM streams in 5.1
    and 7.1. I hope this is helpful.

    Best Regards,

    Sean Hanney
    Harman Technical Support "
    HT
    RTi70 mains
    CSi30 center
    RTi28 Rears
    Velodyne CHT-12
    H/K AVR-247
    ADCOM GFA-7000
    Samsung PN58B860
    Playstation 3
    2-Channel
    Polk Audio LSi15's
    Rotel RCD-1072
    Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
    ADCOM GFA-555
    Signal Cable Analog II IC's
    Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables
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  • DannyD
    DannyD Posts: 133
    edited January 2009
    I knew it streamed LPCM 5.1 via HDMI but I didn't know it did 7.1 as well. Interesting...now I need a pair of FXIA6's:rolleyes:
    Fronts: RTI10's
    Center: CSIA6
    Rears: RTIA3's
    Sub: 15" Velodyne DLS5000R x2 Stacked:D:D:D
    Amp: Marantz MM-9000 150wpc (bi-amped for RTI10's) and CSIA6
    Blu-Ray: PS3
    Harman Kardon AVR247
    Monster Cables
    Signal Analog II IC's
    Panamax MP-5300 Power Conditioner
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  • nikolas812
    nikolas812 Posts: 2,915
    edited January 2009
    You want a new AVR254?

    I got one.:D


    I don't see any point in keeping it.. I think I might throw it on ebay and try to re-coop or make some money on it. And get a 247.


    Thanks for doing the research. This thread is going to probably save me a couple hundred dollars... Wish I would have known sooner. Oh well. You live and you learn...




    Nick
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  • Lowell_M
    Lowell_M Posts: 1,660
    edited January 2009
    Looks like you can get a refurbished 247 for $190ish. I'll give you $180 for your 254 ;):D

    I don't know why I haven't pulled the trigger to get the 247 yet. I should be able to sell my AVR-635 for more than the $230 ish (after shipping) that it would cost me for a 247 because of the amp section in the 635. If nobody is interested here, I'll send it to the bay.
    HT
    RTi70 mains
    CSi30 center
    RTi28 Rears
    Velodyne CHT-12
    H/K AVR-247
    ADCOM GFA-7000
    Samsung PN58B860
    Playstation 3
    2-Channel
    Polk Audio LSi15's
    Rotel RCD-1072
    Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
    ADCOM GFA-555
    Signal Cable Analog II IC's
    Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables
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  • kafarske123
    kafarske123 Posts: 1
    edited June 2009
    Hi, I'm sorry, I realize this post is old, but I just saw it.

    I have a HK AVR 247, a PS3 and a Samsung bd-p1400

    And for a while I had my PS3 set to pcm, and I thought the sound sucked so bad, but when I used my X-BOX 360 the sound whas so mutch better, so I did some reasertch, and discovert bitstream :) sat the PS3 to bitstream on hey, what a difference :D night and day.

    When I got my p1400 it was set by default to pcm, but I turned it over to bitstream, and when I watch blueray whit eider DTS HD or Dolby True HD it seems to work just fine,

    For eksample, I'm watching cloverfield right now on blue ray, and the only alternative in the sound menue is Dolby True HD, so I'm guesing that that is what is being sendt to my AVR.

    And beeing curious, I wanted to know if I realy was getting True HD sound, so I started loocking around the web, and came across this post, and from what I can figgure, the 247 does not suport True HD unless its being decoded by the player by using PCM, but I'we sett everything to bitstream. Does the player sense that the reciver cant decode and change the audio??

    I'we also noticed that when the 247 receves PCM none of the audio modes are available ie Logic 7, DTS, DD.... And while watching movies whit DTS HD and DD HD I'm still able to use the diferent settings, so I'm pretty shure it's not PCM...

    Anny thoughts??
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