Rti-a1: Large or Small?

Retro152
Retro152 Posts: 985
edited January 2009 in Speakers
Hi Guys, Well i received my 2 A-1's today, which gives me a nice 5.1 setup with the Rti-a series, Im working on an Amp and better Sub next. I have the Yamaha 663, and ran the Room Optimizer Mic for setup. It set everything to Large. Yamaha's manual states: " If your speakers are 6.5 inch. or larger, set to Large, if smaller, set to Small." The A-1's driver is 5.25 inch, so wondering if i should set to small? Im familiar with the Optimizer setup from my old speakers, and i have played around with it and dont think i notice a difference. Any opinions? Thanks.


Pat.
Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC-05
Amp: Emotiva Xpa-3
Front L/R: POLK Rti-a9s':D
Center:POLK Csi-a6
Rear surround's:POLK Rti-a1s'
Sub: Klipsch Synergy sub-12
Sony Kdl-46w4100 46" LCD
PS3
Audioquest type 4 wiring.
Post edited by Retro152 on
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Comments

  • TouchOfEvil
    TouchOfEvil Posts: 967
    edited January 2009
    On mine i have them set to large but it honestly doesn't need to be. I figure they can handle the large setting at the volume i listen at so why not....of course this could be horrid advice so don't read it. hehe.
    Living Room Rig:D
    Rotel RSP-1069/Rotel RMB-1095/Rotel-1072/Polk lsI15's W/modded xoverW/DBsubs/Polk LsiC/lsI7's/Klipsch sub-12"the weak link"/DLP Mitsubishi 65"
    Xbox360/PS3/WII
    M.Br. setup:)
    Emotiva MMC-1/Rotel RMB-1075/Polk BlackStone TL350's/Velodyne SPL1000/Samsung 51" Plasma
    Computer Rig:
    Rotel RB1050/Tannoy DC4's/Klipsch RW-10d/ImodIpod/HK AVR230 for now....
    Headphones-Ultrasone-HFI780's w/LittleDot MK Vamp Portables Panasonic HJE-900's
  • Retro152
    Retro152 Posts: 985
    edited January 2009
    Open to any advice right now, LOL.
    Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC-05
    Amp: Emotiva Xpa-3
    Front L/R: POLK Rti-a9s':D
    Center:POLK Csi-a6
    Rear surround's:POLK Rti-a1s'
    Sub: Klipsch Synergy sub-12
    Sony Kdl-46w4100 46" LCD
    PS3
    Audioquest type 4 wiring.
  • TouchOfEvil
    TouchOfEvil Posts: 967
    edited January 2009
    Okok, as an example to you i run mine getting 120watts to each from my rotel rmb1075.
    They handle pretty loud volumes without any trouble.
    Music they do have to be thought of at large settings but if i'm gonna listen that loud i switch to stereo anyway...for movies i have not had it loud enough to be a problem.
    And i listen pretty darn loud....
    i say hook em up no other speakers goin if you can. Turn it up to your normal listening volume.
    If they sound good no distortion or anything roll with it IMO.
    I'm sure someone will say not to but it really just depends on how they sound in your setup....
    Living Room Rig:D
    Rotel RSP-1069/Rotel RMB-1095/Rotel-1072/Polk lsI15's W/modded xoverW/DBsubs/Polk LsiC/lsI7's/Klipsch sub-12"the weak link"/DLP Mitsubishi 65"
    Xbox360/PS3/WII
    M.Br. setup:)
    Emotiva MMC-1/Rotel RMB-1075/Polk BlackStone TL350's/Velodyne SPL1000/Samsung 51" Plasma
    Computer Rig:
    Rotel RB1050/Tannoy DC4's/Klipsch RW-10d/ImodIpod/HK AVR230 for now....
    Headphones-Ultrasone-HFI780's w/LittleDot MK Vamp Portables Panasonic HJE-900's
  • Retro152
    Retro152 Posts: 985
    edited January 2009
    Im not pushing anything near 120 to these guys, and like you i listen to music in 2 channel. Same here, i dont crank for movies either. But i like your idea and will give it a shot. Thanx.
    Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC-05
    Amp: Emotiva Xpa-3
    Front L/R: POLK Rti-a9s':D
    Center:POLK Csi-a6
    Rear surround's:POLK Rti-a1s'
    Sub: Klipsch Synergy sub-12
    Sony Kdl-46w4100 46" LCD
    PS3
    Audioquest type 4 wiring.
  • MrNightly
    MrNightly Posts: 3,370
    edited January 2009
    If you are running a sub, set them to small.

    There is no reason for the speakers to be set to large if you have a cross over that the sub kicks in at. It just makes the speakers move unnecessarily.

    I had my RTi12's set to large and the CSi5 set to large, but one day when doing a frequency sweep, I noticed they were bouncing all over the place and switched them to small and bingo. No noticeable sound difference, yet the sub just kicked in and took over.

    Just my humble opinion. I am no expert by any stretch of course :)
    Honoured to be, an original SOPA founding member
    Stuff...

    RTi12's - front
    CSi5 - center
    FXi3's - surrounds
    RTi4's - surrounds
    SVS PB12-NSD/2 - sub :D:D:D
    Denon 3805
    Rotel RB-985 5-Channel Amplifier

  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,237
    edited January 2009
    Here's a great article on the subject. Dead on acurate if you ask me.
    http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/128214.html
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
  • Retro152
    Retro152 Posts: 985
    edited January 2009
    I am running a sub, and did briefly set them to small, but didnt really give the whole setup a chance. What you suggested really makes sense though and will probably make a good difference.
    Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC-05
    Amp: Emotiva Xpa-3
    Front L/R: POLK Rti-a9s':D
    Center:POLK Csi-a6
    Rear surround's:POLK Rti-a1s'
    Sub: Klipsch Synergy sub-12
    Sony Kdl-46w4100 46" LCD
    PS3
    Audioquest type 4 wiring.
  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited January 2009
    Good article,

    I've heard that argument before. But what about Onkyos that have the Double Bass feature so that they send the full bass to BOTH the Sub and the towers?

    I guess I'll just try it myself and see what my ears say. I don't quite understand why you would want to send over 100 watts into a small midrange and dome tweeter and feed next to nothing into a 10" woofer that's got a 6.5 pound magnet on its back (one on each tower) and an honest 40hz low? To run that speaker at 80 or 100hz seems like a crime! But hearing is believing so the jury is still out for me.

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
  • Retro152
    Retro152 Posts: 985
    edited January 2009
    Here's a great article on the subject. Dead on acurate if you ask me.
    http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/128214.html

    Thanks for that. Your right, very informative and like you said, seems dead on, looks like a "Tweak Night".
    Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC-05
    Amp: Emotiva Xpa-3
    Front L/R: POLK Rti-a9s':D
    Center:POLK Csi-a6
    Rear surround's:POLK Rti-a1s'
    Sub: Klipsch Synergy sub-12
    Sony Kdl-46w4100 46" LCD
    PS3
    Audioquest type 4 wiring.
  • comfortablycurt
    comfortablycurt Posts: 6,745
    edited January 2009
    Here's a great article on the subject. Dead on acurate if you ask me.
    http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/128214.html

    That was a good read. That's basically how I have my HT setup...good to know that I got it at least mostly right.
    The nirvana inducer-
    APC H10 Power Conditioner
    Marantz UD5005 universal player
    Parasound Halo P5 preamp
    Parasound HCA-1200II power amp
    PolkAudio LSi9's/PolkAudio SDA 2A's/PolkAudio Monitor 7A's
    Audioquest Speaker Cables and IC's
  • Retro152
    Retro152 Posts: 985
    edited January 2009
    bsoko2 wrote: »
    Small!

    bsoko2, Hey beautiful setup, Wow! God how many watts does the Rooster put out? LOL!
    Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC-05
    Amp: Emotiva Xpa-3
    Front L/R: POLK Rti-a9s':D
    Center:POLK Csi-a6
    Rear surround's:POLK Rti-a1s'
    Sub: Klipsch Synergy sub-12
    Sony Kdl-46w4100 46" LCD
    PS3
    Audioquest type 4 wiring.
  • comfortablycurt
    comfortablycurt Posts: 6,745
    edited January 2009
    Wow...I'm not sure if I'm just missing something here or not, but I don't think my Onkyo 606 has an option to set speakers as large or small. You can adjust the crossover frequencies and all that of course...but I'm not seeing an option to set speaker size. I could have sworn I'd set it before...I'm gonna have to take another look later.

    cnh-The double bass feature on the Onkyo's doesn't send the bass signal to both the sub and the mains. You have to set the front channels to Full Band, and when you turn on the Double Bass mode, what it does is filter the low frequencies away from the mains and to the subwoofer. I'm not really sure if that even does anything. Why wouldn't you just set the crossover on the mains to 80 hz? Why set it to full band, and then filter the lows to the subwoofer? The two are basically one in the same from the sounds of it.
    The nirvana inducer-
    APC H10 Power Conditioner
    Marantz UD5005 universal player
    Parasound Halo P5 preamp
    Parasound HCA-1200II power amp
    PolkAudio LSi9's/PolkAudio SDA 2A's/PolkAudio Monitor 7A's
    Audioquest Speaker Cables and IC's
  • bsoko2
    bsoko2 Posts: 1,449
    edited January 2009
    retro152 wrote: »
    bsoko2, Hey beautiful setup, Wow! God how many watts does the Rooster put out? LOL!

    I have the SDA's hooked to a Carver M1-5t that puts out 350 wpc. They sing!

    Bill
  • Retro152
    Retro152 Posts: 985
    edited January 2009
    Curt, I initially had my receivers xover set at 80hz, and after running the Yammie Optimizer for the A-1's, it set it at 60. The sub's xover is buried at 120, should i stay with that? It seems minimal, but whats your opinion? At this point it could be personal preference?
    Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC-05
    Amp: Emotiva Xpa-3
    Front L/R: POLK Rti-a9s':D
    Center:POLK Csi-a6
    Rear surround's:POLK Rti-a1s'
    Sub: Klipsch Synergy sub-12
    Sony Kdl-46w4100 46" LCD
    PS3
    Audioquest type 4 wiring.
  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited January 2009
    Curt - From my experience, most AVRs use LARGE to mean that the full range of sound will be sent, and SMALL when the sound will be crossed-over (to a subwoofer) at a designated lower frequency (when said subwoofer is connected to the LFE output of the AVR).

    My Yamaha works like this. When the speakers are set to LARGE, there is no crossover and the lower frequencies are sent to the main speakers. The subwoofer gets its signal from the LFE channel. When the speakers are set to SMALL, you also get the option of selecting a crossover frequency, let's say 80hz (with Yamaha, this crossover freq applies to all speakers designated as SMALL). The regular speakers (main, center, surrounds) essentially get the sound that was meant for them only when that sound is above the crossover point (80hz in this case). Anything below that point gets "crossed-over" to the sub. The sub gets the crossed-over input, as well as the LFE signal that was meant for it.

    I also have an Onkyo 575, similar to your 606. The terminology/setup is slightly different with Onkyo, but essentially the same. According to your manual, the following crossover frequencies can be specified: Full Band, 40Hz, 50Hz, 60Hz, 80Hz, 100Hz, 120Hz, 150Hz, or 200Hz. Full Band is the same as selecting LARGE in the example above. Anything else is like selecting SMALL, and then choosing a crossover freq. The Onkyo way of doing this lets you select different crossover freqs for different speakers (if, for example, your fronts can handle lower freqs than your center or surrounds). I thought this was a cool feature until I read the article linked above, which cautions about setting different crossovers points for your speakers. The Onkyo Double Bass option is only applicable when you have your mains set to Full Band AND you also are using a subwoofer. It allows you to boost your bass output by sending some of the low freqs meant for the main speakers to both the sub AND the main speakers. To me, that doesn't really sound like a good idea.

    Gosh, I hope this makes sense and is helpful... ;)
  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited January 2009
    retro152 wrote: »
    Curt, I initially had my receivers xover set at 80hz, and after running the Yammie Optimizer for the A-1's, it set it at 60. The sub's xover is buried at 120, should i stay with that? It seems minimal, but whats your opinion? At this point it could be personal preference?

    My setup is similar enough to yours... I'm currently running all my speakers SMALL, with a crossover of 80hz. I've experimented with different freqs, but haven't noticed a significant difference with my ears. A good sub is required for this. I checked out the specs on yours and it seems pretty robust. Run YPAO and then reset whatever speakers it sets to LARGE to SMALL, and try the crossover at 80hz. 60hz is probably ok, too, as the A7's can certainly pick up the slack. 60hz is really the lower end limit of the A1's, and if that's a concern, stick with 80hz.

    The sub's crossover should be set to the highest freq, but this really shouldn't matter as the AVR's bass management should override when the sub is connected from the AVR's LFE out to the sub's LFE in.
  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited January 2009
    Disclaimer: I have drunk the 'koolaid' and have set my mains, center and surrounds to small, and set my xover to 80hz and have my sub hooked up to the LFE out on my avr.

    Just seems odd to me that the 'engineers' that design avrs and the auto calibration algorithms (like audessey and ypao) seem to be ignorant of the mantra we follow for small and large speaker settings.

    How many times have you read of a newbie who runs the auto calibration reporting that it actually sets mains to 'small'???

    Most times I've read that these algorithms actually set speakers to large.

    My avr did...with RTi4s.

    And yet we follow the dogma of setting speakers to small -even if they are towers.

    "Too hard to integrate subs with mains both set to large...."

    "LFE effects are dangerous for bookshelves because of over driving levels and blowing subwoofers".

    "AVRs are relieved of driving mains with LFE loading"

    "Bookshelves and mains are incapable of delivering accurate bass for LFE effects"

    Umm...shouldn't folks try stuff for themselves and just decide what sounds best for them for the rig and room they have?

    Did I mention the purple koolaid tastes good? :D

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
  • comfortablycurt
    comfortablycurt Posts: 6,745
    edited January 2009
    That's kind of what I figured...setting it to full band is the same as selecting large. The Double Bass option seems like a pretty stupid option in either case...it seems like it would barely make a difference at all.

    After reading that article, I think I'm going to try switching all of my crossover points to 80hz, fronts, center, surrounds and sub. I'll give it a shot tomorrow and see if it sounds any better than how Audyssey set it up. Audyssey set it up so that the fronts were running Full Band, but I switched them to 80 myself, the center at 150, and the surrounds/surround backs also at 150, with the sub at 100. I'm weary of changing the crossover point on my center and surrounds a bit though. Currently they're just crappy satellites from a HTIB...and I'm not sure if they'll even dig that low...I kinda doubt it. My fronts are full range speakers technically...but I really doubt that they're smooth all the way down the frequency range. I'll give it a shot though.

    retro152 wrote: »
    Curt, I initially had my receivers xover set at 80hz, and after running the Yammie Optimizer for the A-1's, it set it at 60. The sub's xover is buried at 120, should i stay with that? It seems minimal, but whats your opinion? At this point it could be personal preference?

    I don't know...120 is a pretty high crossover point for a sub. Personal preference does have a part in it...but personally I'd try turning it down to 100, if not 80. 80 hz would probably be the best crossover point for the A1's too really. I don't claim to be an expert or anything though.

    Like I said though, tomorrow I'm going to try setting all of my crossover points to 80 hz...I'll report back with my results. I'm anticipating some improvements though, that article made a lot of sense.
    The nirvana inducer-
    APC H10 Power Conditioner
    Marantz UD5005 universal player
    Parasound Halo P5 preamp
    Parasound HCA-1200II power amp
    PolkAudio LSi9's/PolkAudio SDA 2A's/PolkAudio Monitor 7A's
    Audioquest Speaker Cables and IC's
  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited January 2009
    Erik Tracy wrote: »
    Did I mention the purple koolaid tastes good? :D

    I'm a red koolaid guy myself. ;)

    That said, I set my first system up without understanding any of this and it basically sounded like crap... and I enjoyed it like that for a couple of years! :D

    Then I did some reading (articles such as the one linked above), made the suggested adjustments, bought an SPL meter, tweaked a little more, and it was like I had purchased a new, improved system, except that I hadn't.

    I don't know why these things work like this... but they do. ;)
  • Retro152
    Retro152 Posts: 985
    edited January 2009
    That's kind of what I figured...setting it to full band is the same as selecting large. The Double Bass option seems like a pretty stupid option in either case...it seems like it would barely make a difference at all.

    After reading that article, I think I'm going to try switching all of my crossover points to 80hz, fronts, center, surrounds and sub. I'll give it a shot tomorrow and see if it sounds any better than how Audyssey set it up. Audyssey set it up so that the fronts were running Full Band, but I switched them to 80 myself, the center at 150, and the surrounds/surround backs also at 150, with the sub at 100. I'm weary of changing the crossover point on my center and surrounds a bit though. Currently they're just crappy satellites from a HTIB...and I'm not sure if they'll even dig that low...I kinda doubt it. My fronts are full range speakers technically...but I really doubt that they're smooth all the way down the frequency range. I'll give it a shot though.




    I don't know...120 is a pretty high crossover point for a sub. Personal preference does have a part in it...but personally I'd try turning it down to 100, if not 80. 80 hz would probably be the best crossover point for the A1's too really. I don't claim to be an expert or anything though.

    Like I said though, tomorrow I'm going to try setting all of my crossover points to 80 hz...I'll report back with my results. I'm anticipating some improvements though, that article made a lot of sense.
    Thanks Curt, We have given each other a lot to ponder tonight, my heads spinning! But it will be nice to have a gang to bounce this off of. Thanks for your input also mraudioguy.


    Pat.
    Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC-05
    Amp: Emotiva Xpa-3
    Front L/R: POLK Rti-a9s':D
    Center:POLK Csi-a6
    Rear surround's:POLK Rti-a1s'
    Sub: Klipsch Synergy sub-12
    Sony Kdl-46w4100 46" LCD
    PS3
    Audioquest type 4 wiring.
  • comfortablycurt
    comfortablycurt Posts: 6,745
    edited January 2009
    retro152 wrote: »
    Thanks Curt, We have given each other a lot to ponder tonight, my heads spinning! But it will be nice to have a gang to bounce this off of. Thanks for your input also mraudioguy.


    You get a lot of that head spinning feeling around these parts...my heads been spinning for months since I joined up here...so much info going around here it'll make you go crazy trying to take it all in.
    The nirvana inducer-
    APC H10 Power Conditioner
    Marantz UD5005 universal player
    Parasound Halo P5 preamp
    Parasound HCA-1200II power amp
    PolkAudio LSi9's/PolkAudio SDA 2A's/PolkAudio Monitor 7A's
    Audioquest Speaker Cables and IC's
  • Retro152
    Retro152 Posts: 985
    edited January 2009
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    My setup is similar enough to yours... I'm currently running all my speakers SMALL, with a crossover of 80hz. I've experimented with different freqs, but haven't noticed a significant difference with my ears. A good sub is required for this. I checked out the specs on yours and it seems pretty robust. Run YPAO and then reset whatever speakers it sets to LARGE to SMALL, and try the crossover at 80hz. 60hz is probably ok, too, as the A7's can certainly pick up the slack. 60hz is really the lower end limit of the A1's, and if that's a concern, stick with 80hz.

    The sub's crossover should be set to the highest freq, but this really shouldn't matter as the AVR's bass management should override when the sub is connected from the AVR's LFE out to the sub's LFE in.

    Thanks, appreciate the info, will definetly do some more tweaking!
    Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC-05
    Amp: Emotiva Xpa-3
    Front L/R: POLK Rti-a9s':D
    Center:POLK Csi-a6
    Rear surround's:POLK Rti-a1s'
    Sub: Klipsch Synergy sub-12
    Sony Kdl-46w4100 46" LCD
    PS3
    Audioquest type 4 wiring.
  • Retro152
    Retro152 Posts: 985
    edited January 2009
    You get a lot of that head spinning feeling around these parts...my heads been spinning for months since I joined up here...so much info going around here it'll make you go crazy trying to take it all in.

    I know, the wife thinks im nuts since this whole thing took hold of me! LOL.
    Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC-05
    Amp: Emotiva Xpa-3
    Front L/R: POLK Rti-a9s':D
    Center:POLK Csi-a6
    Rear surround's:POLK Rti-a1s'
    Sub: Klipsch Synergy sub-12
    Sony Kdl-46w4100 46" LCD
    PS3
    Audioquest type 4 wiring.
  • comfortablycurt
    comfortablycurt Posts: 6,745
    edited January 2009
    retro152 wrote: »
    I know, the wife thinks im nuts since this whole thing took hold of me! LOL.

    Don't worry, most of my friends think I'm nuts too...my girlfriends getting tired of hearing me talk about audio equipment, so I've had to train myself to not talk about it around her if I can help it...lol
    The nirvana inducer-
    APC H10 Power Conditioner
    Marantz UD5005 universal player
    Parasound Halo P5 preamp
    Parasound HCA-1200II power amp
    PolkAudio LSi9's/PolkAudio SDA 2A's/PolkAudio Monitor 7A's
    Audioquest Speaker Cables and IC's
  • Retro152
    Retro152 Posts: 985
    edited January 2009
    Thanks again, and anxious to hear of your results on the speaker and sub settings.
    Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC-05
    Amp: Emotiva Xpa-3
    Front L/R: POLK Rti-a9s':D
    Center:POLK Csi-a6
    Rear surround's:POLK Rti-a1s'
    Sub: Klipsch Synergy sub-12
    Sony Kdl-46w4100 46" LCD
    PS3
    Audioquest type 4 wiring.
  • SEH
    SEH Posts: 91
    edited January 2009
    retro152 wrote: »
    Curt, I initially had my receivers xover set at 80hz, and after running the Yammie Optimizer for the A-1's, it set it at 60. The sub's xover is buried at 120, should i stay with that? It seems minimal, but whats your opinion? At this point it could be personal preference?

    The crossover on the sub shouldn't be doing anything when it's set that much higher than the crossover on the receiver. You don't really want it doing anything. Set it as high as it goes or off.
  • comfortablycurt
    comfortablycurt Posts: 6,745
    edited January 2009
    Well, I completely forgot that I was going to post back with my results from switching my crossover settings.

    So I switched the crossover point to all of my speakers, including the sub to 80 hz. I've had a few days to listen to it now, and I must say that I've heard a big improvement in the whole frequency range.

    I started with listening to a few of my favorite CD's in 2.1 channel, everything set at 80 hz. Before that I had my fronts crossed at 80 hz, with the sub crossed at 100hz. Turned the sub down to 80 and I definitely saw some improvement. Turning the sub down a bit definitely improved my bass response. Freeing the sub up from having to reproduce the 80-100 hz range really freed it up to produce the lower end a lot better. My bass impact is much improved, and it definitely seems to blend with my fronts much better. My lower midrange/upper bass response was improved as well. After switching it, it was coming through much clearer. I tried switching it back and forth a couple times, and with the sub crossed at 100 it kind of muddied up the 80-100 range. Comes through with a lot more clarity now definitely.

    Then I popped in Iron Man on DVD, simply because it has an awesome soundtrack, and figured it would be a good testing point.

    My suspicions about my surround channels were correct...they are nowhere near capable of producing sound down to 80 hz. I blame that solely on the speakers though. They're just crappy satellites, so that's to be expected. The crossover has been turned up to 150 on those now, and I still don't think it's really digging down even that low. As I said though, I blame that on the speakers. With higher quality speakers 80hz would probably be the way to go.

    Audyssey set my crossover on the center channel to 150hz. Turned it down to 80hz, and WOW! My center channel is much improved now. Across the screen affects in the front are now much improved. The sweep from main to center to main is now much clearer. The dialogue is coming through much cleaner and louder now, which was always one of my complaints with that center channel. Big improvement there.

    As far as the mains and the sub go. Results were similar to the results of two channel mode. The bass is now coming through a lot louder and clearer...it doesn't sound anywhere near as muddy as it did before. The deep bass affects in Iron Man were much more impressive than the last time I watched it. As for the mains, just like in two channel mode, midrange came through much clearer, due to blending with the sub better.

    So, I would definitely say that in the last few days, my enjoyment in my system has definitely increased.
    The nirvana inducer-
    APC H10 Power Conditioner
    Marantz UD5005 universal player
    Parasound Halo P5 preamp
    Parasound HCA-1200II power amp
    PolkAudio LSi9's/PolkAudio SDA 2A's/PolkAudio Monitor 7A's
    Audioquest Speaker Cables and IC's
  • Retro152
    Retro152 Posts: 985
    edited January 2009
    Well, I completely forgot that I was going to post back with my results from switching my crossover settings.

    So I switched the crossover point to all of my speakers, including the sub to 80 hz. I've had a few days to listen to it now, and I must say that I've heard a big improvement in the whole frequency range.

    I started with listening to a few of my favorite CD's in 2.1 channel, everything set at 80 hz. Before that I had my fronts crossed at 80 hz, with the sub crossed at 100hz. Turned the sub down to 80 and I definitely saw some improvement. Turning the sub down a bit definitely improved my bass response. Freeing the sub up from having to reproduce the 80-100 hz range really freed it up to produce the lower end a lot better. My bass impact is much improved, and it definitely seems to blend with my fronts much better. My lower midrange/upper bass response was improved as well. After switching it, it was coming through much clearer. I tried switching it back and forth a couple times, and with the sub crossed at 100 it kind of muddied up the 80-100 range. Comes through with a lot more clarity now definitely.

    Then I popped in Iron Man on DVD, simply because it has an awesome soundtrack, and figured it would be a good testing point.

    My suspicions about my surround channels were correct...they are nowhere near capable of producing sound down to 80 hz. I blame that solely on the speakers though. They're just crappy satellites, so that's to be expected. The crossover has been turned up to 150 on those now, and I still don't think it's really digging down even that low. As I said though, I blame that on the speakers. With higher quality speakers 80hz would probably be the way to go.

    Audyssey set my crossover on the center channel to 150hz. Turned it down to 80hz, and WOW! My center channel is much improved now. Across the screen affects in the front are now much improved. The sweep from main to center to main is now much clearer. The dialogue is coming through much cleaner and louder now, which was always one of my complaints with that center channel. Big improvement there.

    As far as the mains and the sub go. Results were similar to the results of two channel mode. The bass is now coming through a lot louder and clearer...it doesn't sound anywhere near as muddy as it did before. The deep bass affects in Iron Man were much more impressive than the last time I watched it. As for the mains, just like in two channel mode, midrange came through much clearer, due to blending with the sub better.

    So, I would definitely say that in the last few days, my enjoyment in my system has definitely increased.

    So your currently running your Sub and Receiver at 80hz and having the best results?
    Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC-05
    Amp: Emotiva Xpa-3
    Front L/R: POLK Rti-a9s':D
    Center:POLK Csi-a6
    Rear surround's:POLK Rti-a1s'
    Sub: Klipsch Synergy sub-12
    Sony Kdl-46w4100 46" LCD
    PS3
    Audioquest type 4 wiring.
  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited January 2009
    My suspicions about my surround channels were correct...they are nowhere near capable of producing sound down to 80 hz. I blame that solely on the speakers though. They're just crappy satellites, so that's to be expected. The crossover has been turned up to 150 on those now, and I still don't think it's really digging down even that low. As I said though, I blame that on the speakers. With higher quality speakers 80hz would probably be the way to go.

    I always have trouble evaluating the sound from my surrounds, since there's rarely anything there, except effects. All I know is I think they sound good. The concept of crossover from surrounds to my sub seems strange to me, since the surrounds are in the back of the room (obviously) and my sub is up front. Even considering the fact that lower freqs are not directional, per se, it's difficult to imagine the sub supplementing the surrounds, although I'm sure it occurs.:confused:

    PS - Curt - I'm also inclined to think that setting your surround crossover so much higher than everything else is not a good idea, although I know it's due to your current setup. You'll be blown away when you get those new speaks.