Adcom GFA 555 or Carver TFM-35X Amp

Dawgfish · December 2008

Hi Polkies,

I need your opinion on something. I have found two amps locally for sale that I will like to use to power my RTi10s that I am using as sorrounds in a 8.2(I'm running two center channels and two subs) home theater system. One is a Carver TFM-35X, it's rated at 250 wpc X2. The other amp I'm looking at is an Adcom GFA-555, it's rated at 200 wpc X2. How do these amps sound respectively? I can buy both for a very similiar price. If you all had the choice between the two, which would you buy and why?

Perhaps I should just buy both of these ;-). If I were to go that rout, how well would these compliment each other in sound. I would use one amp to drive my RTi10s I'm using for sorrounds, and will be using the other to drive my RTi 8 back sorrounds.

Just so y'all know what I'm working with, I have RTi12 fronts, and CSi 5 and CSi A6 for my two centers. I am using a Monster Power 3250 (250 wpc X3, but I'm not using one channel) amp to drive the RTi 12's and a Monster 2250 ( 250 wpc X2) to drive the two centers. I know people don't like Monster stuff, but I got incredible deals on both and the amps sound really good. Rounding out the system is two Polk DSW 600 subs and an Onkyo 806 reciever. Thanks in advance.

lakesailor · December 2008

I would take the Adcom GFA 555 in a heartbeat over the Carver. The GFA 555 was a Nelson Pass design and was probably one of the best amps for the money ever built. Stereophile loved it; other critics loved it; I believe it was a Class “C” component and was ultimately recommended for an upgrade to Class B status when the updated 555 Mark II version came out.

The biggest reason why I would go with the Adcom over the Carver is build quality. Adcom built a very solid piece of gear. Huge toroidal transformer; big caps; the works.

I have owned both Carver and Adcom and would not buy Carver again. Carver was very innovative however build quality was generally always weak. I had three Carver amps fail on me and zero Adcom fail.

It should also be noted that Adcom is going to bring back the original GFA 555 Mark II in January and that to me is saying something for the longevity of that amplifier design. I have since moved on to Pass Labs and Mark Levinson amps however for the money a good Adcom just cannot be beat; although I do prefer the 5xx series over the newer mosfet based 5XXX except of course for the GFA 5802. That was a masterpeice.

Dawgfish · December 2008

Lakesailor,

Thank you very much for the advice. I've been doing a little research and have been reading a lot of great reviews on the GFA 555. I am definitely leaning towards it if I only go with one.

Should I consider picking up the Carver also? I can have both at a really reasonable price, or would I be better off staying away from the Carver all-together due to reliability issues and possibly having a hodge-podge of different sounding amps powering my sytem? Thanks again

Roy Munson · December 2008

I would recommend the Carver over the Adcom because imo Adcoms are definitely on the grainy side [I've had both a 555 and a 545mkII..I preferred the 545] and the Carver imho is smoother and more musical. Having said that, I would go with a Carver TFM-35 without the "X" [I once owned a M500t which is supposed to be the same as a TFM-35 and really liked it] YMMV

ben62670 · December 2008

Adcom fan. Where you located dawg?

leroyjr1 · December 2008

I love the low end on the Adcom

Ron Temple · December 2008

I've tried them both...prefer the Carver SQ, especially with a bright speaker. That said, the Adcom is built like a tank and I liked it alot too...just not as much.

Texas42 · December 2008

lakesailor wrote: »

I would take the Adcom GFA 555 in a heartbeat over the Carver. The GFA 555 was a Nelson Pass design and was probably one of the best amps for the money ever built. Stereophile loved it; other critics loved it; I believe it was a Class C component and was ultimately recommended for an upgrade to Class B status when the updated 555 Mark II version came out..

Actually, I believe the only Adcom's Nelson Pass personally took part in the design process were the GFA-5800 and 5802. That being said, the 555 (and the later 535, 545 and 566 monos) was certainly the amp that brought Adcom into the forefront of as an affordable 'high end' type amp.

The Adcom is more of a high current design that the Carver. Their sonic characteristics would probably show the Carver to sound a bit warmer and the Adcom to be a bit more forward (some would call it even aggressive or bright, although I don't think so). The Adcom would, in my opinion, have better bass. I've owned both the aforementioned models in the past and currently own both an Adcom 5800 and Carver 1.5t

Texas42 · December 2008

Let me correct myself...(memory is terrible thing to waste...) Nelson Pass DID design the original 555 (I was confusing it with the later 555 mark II)

lakesailor · December 2008

Dawgfish wrote: »

Lakesailor,

Thank you very much for the advice. I've been doing a little research and have been reading a lot of great reviews on the GFA 555. I am definitely leaning towards it if I only go with one.

Should I consider picking up the Carver also? I can have both at a really reasonable price, or would I be better off staying away from the Carver all-together due to reliability issues and possibly having a hodge-podge of different sounding amps powering my sytem? Thanks again

I dont think you are going to go too far wrong with either amp. I am biased towards Adcom over Carver for a variety of different reasons; however in your case I think the Adcom would simply do a better job running surrounds in your HT system. Legendary Adcoms like the 555 are tanks and work like a diesel in heat. They rarely let you down and are great for H/T

I agree with many of the comments about the Carver if you were looking to compare these two amps for a 2 channel system I would think more favourably of the Carver (still would take the Adcom though) The Carvers are definitely warmer sounding. Adcoms are surprisingly neutral for a big amp. They throw out a pretty good soundstage and have very solid low end. Not to mention they will drive a truck if needed. Even more so the Mark II versions.

The only downside I found between the Carver and the Adcom was that the Carver was more forgiving of a lesser pre-amp; while the Adcom was a tad more challenging in that era. I never liked the Adcom 555 series pre-amps.

ben62670 · December 2008

One thing that scares me about Carver's is that they seem to be in need of repair a lot. Adcom's are over built with tons of current. The power supplies are solid transformers that do not die. Carver's tend to use way too many components in their PS for my taste. The 555 is good to 2ohms, and is the most sold high current amp.
Ben

george daniel · December 2008

good points,, I'll second ben and lakesailor,, since this is going to be used mainly foe HT,, just go with the Adcom, if it is priced right, you should get a good price/performance/dependibilty ratio,, and if it needs repair,, Ben is local,, just my .02 worth--good luck and have fun.

Dawgfish · December 2008

Thanks to everyone for the replies. Ben I live on St. Simons Island, even though I'm originally from the Gainesville/Dawsonville/Dahlonega area. I'm working down here on a long term job assignment. I miss the mountains, but I'm really enjoying living on the coast. It's a nice change of pace.

Back to the amps. I'm thinking about picking up both of these as I can get both at a very reasonable price right now. That way I could play around with both and see what I like best. I may run both of them in the same system, or maybe I could run the other in my downstairs system. It never hurts to have options. Thanks again everyone for the great advice.

heiney9 · December 2008

I have nothing against Carver as it's designer and heritage are legendary. The thing with Bob vs. Nelson is Bob always used "tricky" topologies that tended to be overly complicated and in some cases shortsighted. Hence the reason they tend to need repair more often than the tried and true simple designs based on Nelson Pass topologies of the Adcom.

I have always advocated Adcom as a great value because they run forever, sound sooooooo much better than they should considering the price then and now. People say Adcoms are grainy and forward; I've never experienced that but pre-amp mating is a bit more critical.

In my experience the 545 is the "gem" of the line in regards to giving you 85% of the performance of a 555 but it just sounds a little sweeter and a tad smoother. Since this is an HT and not a critical 2ch system go for the Adcom 555 and you won't be disappointed.

I've had a 545 since new in 1986 and I've put it up against some of the newer more expensive amps out there and there was only 1 instance out of about 5 or so where I preferred the the other amp (Marsh A200) and that amp was about $1500 new.

Is the Adcom the "be all, end all" of amps............nope but it's a helluva nice sounding, absolutely capable of driving virtually anything, great value, well designed, musical workhorse amplifier.

YMMV

H9

leroyjr1 · December 2008

heiney9 wrote: »

I have nothing against Carver as it's designer and heritage are legendary. The thing with Bob vs. Nelson is Bob always used "tricky" topologies that tended to be overly complicated and in some cases shortsighted. Hence the reason they tend to need repair more often than the tried and true simple designs based on Nelson Pass topologies of the Adcom.

I have always advocated Adcom as a great value because they run forever, sound sooooooo much better than they should considering the price then and now. People say Adcoms are grainy and forward; I've never experienced that but pre-amp mating is a bit more critical.

In my experience the 545 is the "gem" of the line in regards to giving you 85% of the performance of a 555 but it just sounds a little sweeter and a tad smoother. Since this is an HT and not a critical 2ch system go for the Adcom 555 and you won't be disappointed.

I've had a 545 since new in 1986 and I've put it up against some of the newer more expensive amps out there and there was only 1 instance out of about 5 or so where I preferred the the other amp (Marsh A200) and that amp was about $1500 new.

Is the Adcom the "be all, end all" of amps............nope but it's a helluva nice sounding, absolutely capable of driving virtually anything, great value, well designed, musical workhorse amplifier.

YMMV

H9

Well spoken

ben62670 · December 2008

Dawgfish wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for the replies. Ben I live on St. Simons Island, even though I'm originally from the Gainesville/Dawsonville/Dahlonega area. I'm working down here on a long term job assignment. I miss the mountains, but I'm really enjoying living on the coast. It's a nice change of pace.

Back to the amps. I'm thinking about picking up both of these as I can get both at a very reasonable price right now. That way I could play around with both and see what I like best. I may run both of them in the same system, or maybe I could run the other in my downstairs system. It never hurts to have options. Thanks again everyone for the great advice.

I miss the coast in Ft Lauderdale. I love to fish! I have tons of gear left, but my 20' CC got stolen, and I have kids now. I would love to go out again. I have a buddy in ST Augustine who goes to the ledge about 65 miles out. Lots of good times. Lots of wahoo out there:) Any time you are in the Conyers area give me a shout. My doors are always open.
Take care
Ben

Dawgfish · December 2008

Ben,

I love to fish also. I have a 21' Hewes Flats boat and do a lot of inshore fishing for seatrout, redfish, tarpon, and whatever else may be biting. I'm actually I fly fishing guide for freshwater trout in the Southern Appalachain region when I'm not playing a geologist at my fulltime job. My door is also always open. You are welcome to come down anytime and we'll wet a line. I have plenty of room! Sorry to here about your boat. I'll give you a shout sometime when I head up that way.

Steve

ViperZ · December 2008

I guess, I'll just repeat what some people already said. I tried both amps before (and other amps from the same series/generations) with RTi speakers.

In my opinion, even though Adcom has a better build, it sounds way too bright with RTi speakers. Carver does add softness and depth to the bright-sounding RTi.
It's a coin flip, really. I got rid of my 2-ch Adcom in favour of HK Citation for the softness reason, but using 5-ch Adcom with StudioLab speakers... using Carver TFM with Maggies...

ben62670 · December 2008

Dawgfish wrote: »

Ben,

I love to fish also. I have a 21' Hewes Flats boat and do a lot of inshore fishing for seatrout, redfish, tarpon, and whatever else may be biting. I'm actually I fly fishing guide for freshwater trout in the Southern Appalachain region when I'm not playing a geologist at my fulltime job. My door is also always open. You are welcome to come down anytime and we'll wet a line. I have plenty of room! Sorry to here about your boat. I'll give you a shout sometime when I head up that way.

Steve

Awesome. Redfishing is killer! Never did the seatrout thing, but I here there is a decent flounder run in the spring. I would be into going to the mountains if you come up. I did a lot of trout fishing in CT where I grew up. I am guessing the streams in the mountains pretty much dictate having to fly. One thing I would really like to get into is hybrid strippers. I miss the strippers up north. They are a wonderful fish.
Ben

SteveFord · December 2008

I don't know about Carver amps being unreliable - I've used their amps for the past decade (four of them) and the only problem I've ever had is capacitors going south from old age.
No design problems, just old components showing their age. They didn't fail, they just sounded like crap.
I had RichP over at the Carver forum rebuild and hot rod three of them.
I did fry a Carver Reciever after 15 years but that one was my fault entirely.
As for Adcom, I can't offer any opinion.
I would say pick up both if you can swing it and send the Carver to Rich for his magic.

ben62670 · December 2008

Hey Steve welcome to Club Polk! Nice to see you here:)
Ben

Lowell_M · December 2008

heiney9 wrote: »

I have nothing against Carver as it's designer and heritage are legendary. The thing with Bob vs. Nelson is Bob always used "tricky" topologies that tended to be overly complicated and in some cases shortsighted. Hence the reason they tend to need repair more often than the tried and true simple designs based on Nelson Pass topologies of the Adcom.

I have always advocated Adcom as a great value because they run forever, sound sooooooo much better than they should considering the price then and now. People say Adcoms are grainy and forward; I've never experienced that but pre-amp mating is a bit more critical.

In my experience the 545 is the "gem" of the line in regards to giving you 85% of the performance of a 555 but it just sounds a little sweeter and a tad smoother. Since this is an HT and not a critical 2ch system go for the Adcom 555 and you won't be disappointed.

I've had a 545 since new in 1986 and I've put it up against some of the newer more expensive amps out there and there was only 1 instance out of about 5 or so where I preferred the the other amp (Marsh A200) and that amp was about $1500 new.

Is the Adcom the "be all, end all" of amps............nope but it's a helluva nice sounding, absolutely capable of driving virtually anything, great value, well designed, musical workhorse amplifier.

YMMV

H9

Ummmm.... +1 (like I could have actually said all that

)

Lowell_M · December 2008

I've got another option to throw out there.... I had a GFA555 in my HT for the the left and right and when I moved it to 2-channel duty, replaced it with a GFA-7000 (5-channel.. 125wpc I think) This was hands down the best improvement to my HT. I'm only driving RTi70's as my mains, but the ADCOM's just seem to have SOOO much headroom. I can't tell the difference between the 7000 and my 555. The 5 channels of ADCOM power really solidified the theater stage AND... I had a party a couple weeks ago and was playing music using the H/K's 5 channel stereo mode (not a surround mode, but send the L and R to the L and R rear speakers and well (not sure what it does with the center) Anyway... with all 5 channels going we were listening to music far louder than anyone should for any extended period of time. I didn't put an SPL meter on it, but I bet we were around 110db or higher. It was freaking loud anyway. There were still tremendous dynamics and all was clear as a bell. No clipping whatsoever.

Sorry to cloudy the waters but thought it was worth mentioning.

edit- guess my post makes it sound like all I care about is volume... my point was that the GFA-7000 might be a good option to consider because they can be bought for $400 to $500 and have 5 channels of very nice quality power. Sound characteristics are comparable to the GFA-555 with a little less power. it is still very strong ADCOM power though.

RichP714 · December 2008

lakesailor wrote: »

I would take the Adcom GFA 555 in a heartbeat over the Carver. .....The biggest reason why I would go with the Adcom over the Carver is build quality. .....I had three Carver amps fail on me and zero Adcom fail.......

Hi there Lakesailor. We had practically the opposite experience with the Adcoms. Yes, they are heavier, but we saw many more failures with the GFA 545 and 555 than the Carvers.

Sonics wise, I much prefer the Carver over the Adcom, but I don't have your ears, I have mine.

All I can say is try to demo both

ben62670 · December 2008

I had a GFA-7500, and I really wish I kept it:(

RichP714 · December 2008

ben62670 wrote: »

One thing that scares me about Carver's is that they seem to be in need of repair a lot. Adcom's are over built with tons of current. The power supplies are solid transformers that do not die. Carver's tend to use way too many components in their PS for my taste. The 555 is good to 2ohms, and is the most sold high current amp.
Ben

When the units were new, the most common thing we saw with the Carver's was related to user abuse. (running all night in an enclosed cabinet, then 'cranking it' when their favorite song came on, etc.). Almost NO power supply failures.

Now, many years after they've been sold retail, the most likely failure I'm seeing is related to electrolytic capacitor failure (which is unavoidable in any amplifier).

Yes, a higher parts cost design, but very flexible and IMO very reliable.

heiney9 · December 2008

Discussion is great and it can be helpful but you are doing the right thing by getting both and deciding for yourself. Either one would be a great choice. It's obvious we all have our preferences but, really they are both solid products.

Anytime one can compare the gear in their own system with their own ears that's the best solution to the question.

I've been around Adcom's a lot in 20 years both on the selling end and service end and I totally believe what RichP is saying as far as his experience but it's not the norm for 545's and 555's in my experience.

Get 'em both and ket your ears, set-up and preferences decide.

Good luck

H9

Dawgfish · December 2008

Thanks again for everybodies replies. My choice between the two amps has just been made easier as the Carver has been sold. I'm going to jump on the Adcom though.

I've been debating picking up a multichannel amp also. I'm considering the Adcoms y'all have been mentioning and also the Emotiva XPA-5. Any feelings one way or another between the XPA-5 and the Adcom multicahnnel Amps?

RichP714 · December 2008

Roy Munson wrote: »

...... Having said that, I would go with a Carver TFM-35 without the "X" [I once owned a M500t which is supposed to be the same as a TFM-35 and really liked it] YMMV

I think you're thinking of the M-1.0t, which has a very similar topology with the TFM-35. The M-500t is completely different

Lowell_M · December 2008

GFA-7000 in Chicago... http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/ele/957212895.html

Dawgfish · December 2008

a_mattison,

If only I lived in Chicago. That is exactly what I'm looking for at a good price to boot. According to the add, they were looking for cash and pickup and there lies the fly in the oitment. I live in Georgia (South Georgia at that), other wise I would be beating the door down on this. Anybody heading to Chicago anytime ove the next day or so? :-)

Adcom GFA 555 or Carver TFM-35X Amp

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