Lossless audio vs full bit-rate DTS or Dolby

McLoki
McLoki Posts: 5,231
edited November 2008 in Electronics
I decided to take advantage of the sony sale on the BDP-S350 blu-ray player. (got it for $153 from sony style) Cheapest I saw the BDP-S550 with analog outs was $350. For $200 I decided I would just go with standard audio via optical (or coax) connection.

With blu-Ray the standard audio track is full bit rate. (640k/sec for DD and 1.5meg/sec for DTS) My question is, how much of a compromise will it be listening to bluray through a standard audio connection rather than the lossless track?

My Pre/Pro does not have HDMi inputs and I am sure it will get upgraded at some point (the new Outlaw is the current top contender when it comes out but it will be summer at least before I can swing the money) so for now, standard audio is all I get. Just wondering how much of a compromise it will be...

Michael
Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
Post edited by McLoki on
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  • dkg999
    dkg999 Posts: 5,647
    edited November 2008
    As I understand it, from reading way too many threads on the bluray and avs forums, is that the higher bit rate audio via coax/optical is lossless, but not the high definition codec. I can tell you from doing comparisons with my Sony S550 (the same one we watched when you were up here) the audio via coax/optical is much better than the SD DVD version. I rented the SD versions of Transformers and Master and Commander to do a comparison. I really don't think you are too compromised using the higer bit rate/lossless audio from the BD discs via coax/optical. There are some definite improvements in the HD audio codecs when I switch to 5.1 analog from the S550.
    DKG999
    HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED

    Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC
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  • McLoki
    McLoki Posts: 5,231
    edited November 2008
    So if I understand you correctly, standard digital connections are an improvement over sd dvd's, but still not as nice as true lossless audio. percentage wise, how close does it get you?
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited November 2008
    McLoki wrote: »
    So if I understand you correctly, standard digital connections are an improvement over sd dvd's, but still not as nice as true lossless audio. percentage wise, how close does it get you?

    You may find this article of interest:
    http://www.hemagazine.com/node/Dolby_TrueHD_DTS-MA_versus_Uncompressed_PCM

    I think the 'expert' consensus is that the new hi-def lossless codecs (and by equivalence - PCM) offer better PQ and dynamics than the more typical lossey codecs you find on SD-DVDs or 'core' BD tracks.

    But - you will need either HDMI connections or a player capable of analog outs for all channels and be able to decode the lossless tracks if the BD disk does not offer PCM.

    Mmmm...I can smell the turkey cooking....!!

    Erik

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,997
    edited November 2008
    Yep, I can smell the turkey, but it's not in the oven or on the table.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • cheddar
    cheddar Posts: 2,390
    edited November 2008
    McLoki wrote: »
    So if I understand you correctly, standard digital connections are an improvement over sd dvd's, but still not as nice as true lossless audio. percentage wise, how close does it get you?

    I find that people often get confused by DTS-HD MA and TrueHD thinking that somehow they are a special audio format that somehow improves the sound. All they are is a digital compression scheme for stuffing an original PCM audio track into a smaller footprint and getting the original back when it's uncompressed. They are only as good as the original master.

    That said, when comparing it to vanilla DD and DTS, remember that these also are just ways of taking the original master and compressing the heck out of it to get it to fit on a DVD. These compression schemes claim to take out audio information (frequencies that they claim we couldn't hear with the rest of the mix anyways, etc.) in an efficient manner and still have a great sounding surround track when it's uncompressed and reconstructed (but it's missing information so it's lossy). The 640kbps and 1.5 mbps on blu-ray are roughly twice the bitrate usually found on dvds. So people often claim the blu-ray tracks sound better than their dvd counterparts.

    Now how much better all this sounds is like asking a person how much better an SACD album is to its CD counterpart. On paper, there is a lot of difference, but how much that difference is worth probably varies a lot based on the person doing the listening. With a good original master, I can notice the richer bass the most and you can definitely tell that lossless benefits the upper frequencies as well. I have the same experience when listening to DVD-A disks vs. CDs. But for casual listening with the volume turned up, the vanilla tracks still sound really good from a good original master as well. IMHO, the vanilla tracks are a fine compromise while waiting for the next upgrade. But I was very happy when I upgraded to an hdmi pre and definitely wouldn't go back.
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